Starter Caterham advice
Discussion
Hello,
After building and owning a couple of kitcars and a special over the years, I feel I need to own the 'real deal'. I have a limited budget of absolute maximum £8000, and realise I'll probably be looking at a late 1980's/early 1990's crossflow for that, although I wouldn't rule any engine out if it came in budget. I'm not a speed freak, and reckon 120bhp will be more than enough for me, so that shouldn't be a problem, and at least it will be 'spannerable'. My questions are :
Should I be wary of a CAT C rating in a cars past
How worried should I be by the potential for electrolytic corrosion on a 20+ year old car with a steel chassis and aluminimum panelling
I'm 5'10" and 12 1/2 stone - any Caterham should fit shouldn't it?
My inclination is to look for a tatty but MOT'd car, rather than an laid-up 'barn find' - am I right?
Any opinions?
Best regards,
Andrew
After building and owning a couple of kitcars and a special over the years, I feel I need to own the 'real deal'. I have a limited budget of absolute maximum £8000, and realise I'll probably be looking at a late 1980's/early 1990's crossflow for that, although I wouldn't rule any engine out if it came in budget. I'm not a speed freak, and reckon 120bhp will be more than enough for me, so that shouldn't be a problem, and at least it will be 'spannerable'. My questions are :
Should I be wary of a CAT C rating in a cars past
How worried should I be by the potential for electrolytic corrosion on a 20+ year old car with a steel chassis and aluminimum panelling
I'm 5'10" and 12 1/2 stone - any Caterham should fit shouldn't it?
My inclination is to look for a tatty but MOT'd car, rather than an laid-up 'barn find' - am I right?
Any opinions?
Best regards,
Andrew
harrietc said:
1)Should I be wary of a CAT C rating in a cars past
Depends on what was done to the car to get it back on the road and who did the repairs. For examample a car with a long front repair done by Arch would not worry me in the slightest........depending on price.
2)How worried should I be by the potential for electrolytic corrosion on a 20+ year old car with a steel chassis and aluminimum panelling
Not really an issue as you can visually check this with ease before a purchase and make an eductated guess as to how bad it is........unlike a TVR for instance where much of the trouble spots are inaccesible to view.
3)I'm 5'10" and 12 1/2 stone - any Caterham should fit shouldn't it?
Exactly the same size as me so yes...any 7 fits the bill
4)My inclination is to look for a tatty but MOT'd car, rather than an laid-up 'barn find' - am I right?
Again, doesn't really matter, just choose the best one for your budget. If in doubt take an experienced owner with you, as I said not much hidden on these and a bloke who knows where to look will be a huge help for you.
Cheers
Depends on what was done to the car to get it back on the road and who did the repairs. For examample a car with a long front repair done by Arch would not worry me in the slightest........depending on price.
2)How worried should I be by the potential for electrolytic corrosion on a 20+ year old car with a steel chassis and aluminimum panelling
Not really an issue as you can visually check this with ease before a purchase and make an eductated guess as to how bad it is........unlike a TVR for instance where much of the trouble spots are inaccesible to view.
3)I'm 5'10" and 12 1/2 stone - any Caterham should fit shouldn't it?
Exactly the same size as me so yes...any 7 fits the bill
4)My inclination is to look for a tatty but MOT'd car, rather than an laid-up 'barn find' - am I right?
Again, doesn't really matter, just choose the best one for your budget. If in doubt take an experienced owner with you, as I said not much hidden on these and a bloke who knows where to look will be a huge help for you.
Cheers
I'm sure you're right to look for a car that is MOT'd and running. If you can't at least ride in the car you'll have no idea if it jumps out of gear/diff whines and clonks etc or if it will even track straight down the road.
I would be hoping to find a car that has been cherished by its owner (ideally not used on salt) and has a modest reasonably standard specification.
However, there are some cars where the crossflow has been swapped to a Zetec, and I think they could make a more usable and reliable car.
To be honest even the new cars don't have much rust protection, I sprayed my chassis and panels with dinitrol as I was building it, but I'm still keeping it of the road at this time of year. The good news is the alloy is so thin it should be pretty obvious if the skin is on the way out, and if you get under the car you can see quite a bit of the chassis and check the floor panels look OK.
I would be hoping to find a car that has been cherished by its owner (ideally not used on salt) and has a modest reasonably standard specification.
However, there are some cars where the crossflow has been swapped to a Zetec, and I think they could make a more usable and reliable car.
To be honest even the new cars don't have much rust protection, I sprayed my chassis and panels with dinitrol as I was building it, but I'm still keeping it of the road at this time of year. The good news is the alloy is so thin it should be pretty obvious if the skin is on the way out, and if you get under the car you can see quite a bit of the chassis and check the floor panels look OK.
harrietc said:
Whats the general feeling about 1600VX versus 1600/1700 crossflow or a 1400/1600 K-series?
Difficult to answer as every type of engine has its fan club. I think a zetec conversion as suggested above by Downsman would be a good buy. A decent reliable engine with lots of scope for upgrading if a little on the heavy side.A 1.6k would be nice if it came in at the budget
What the man above said. You won't be doing much driving over the next few months due to wintery weather so save some more dosh and buy as much 7 as you can with your money.
You need to decide whether you want a 7 on carbs (vx or crossflow) or fuel injected (k series) I had the 1.6 vx on carbs, sounded lovely pops and bangs but lacked grunt and always needed fettling. Went to 1.8 k series and although I missed the carbed character, it was so much smoother and user friendly to a man of limited mechanical means, like me. If you want a carbed 7, have a look out for the 2.0vx powered HPC, one of my favourite 7s.
Main thing is don't rush, try loads out and keep your money in your bin until you find the one that ticks all your boxes. Get along to your local 7 meet, they will help. Good luck
You need to decide whether you want a 7 on carbs (vx or crossflow) or fuel injected (k series) I had the 1.6 vx on carbs, sounded lovely pops and bangs but lacked grunt and always needed fettling. Went to 1.8 k series and although I missed the carbed character, it was so much smoother and user friendly to a man of limited mechanical means, like me. If you want a carbed 7, have a look out for the 2.0vx powered HPC, one of my favourite 7s.
Main thing is don't rush, try loads out and keep your money in your bin until you find the one that ticks all your boxes. Get along to your local 7 meet, they will help. Good luck
I'd be looking at a Roadsport A car for about £10k, mainly because the most expensive trick bits I'd want, are already on the car. (LSD, 6 speed, dry sump together are around £3k, even second hand) This is of course, to justify my own purchase of an ex-race 1600 K series 
If budget is tight though, and you don't want to spend much doing it up, I recommend going higher in price. Even just farting around trying to make mine more like a Superlight in looks and feel has cost quite a bit, it all adds up. (Bilstein adjustables all round, carbon, windscreen, seats, blah blah)
If budget is tight though, and you don't want to spend much doing it up, I recommend going higher in price. Even just farting around trying to make mine more like a Superlight in looks and feel has cost quite a bit, it all adds up. (Bilstein adjustables all round, carbon, windscreen, seats, blah blah)
chris_speed said:
I'd be looking at a Roadsport A car for about £10k, mainly because the most expensive trick bits I'd want, are already on the car. (LSD, 6 speed, dry sump together are around £3k, even second hand) This is of course, to justify my own purchase of an ex-race 1600 K series
If budget is tight though, and you don't want to spend much doing it up, I recommend going higher in price. Even just farting around trying to make mine more like a Superlight in looks and feel has cost quite a bit, it all adds up. (Bilstein adjustables all round, carbon, windscreen, seats, blah blah)
Totally agree but the gradual upgrading can add a lot to the overall ownership experience.If budget is tight though, and you don't want to spend much doing it up, I recommend going higher in price. Even just farting around trying to make mine more like a Superlight in looks and feel has cost quite a bit, it all adds up. (Bilstein adjustables all round, carbon, windscreen, seats, blah blah)
Hello,
Thanks for all the comments so far. As I said in the first post I think around 100bhp in a first Caterham will be plenty for me, and my budget is limited to £8000 as I don't think I can justify more than that on what will be a weekend toy. I have no illusions over my driving skills and my old Reliant SS1 1800ti was plenty fast enough for me, so I think I should rule out anything with a sub 6 sec 0-60 time for a first Seven.
I'm beginning to think a 1600VX Classic might me my ideal spec. - not too old, 100bhp ish and should be within budget. Whats peoples thoughts on these? I get a feeling that they are a bit of a poor relation compared to classic crossflows and more modern injected K's, Zetecs, etc. or are they truly the worst of both worlds - not a crossflow but still comes with hard to keep in tune Webers.
Should I try and track down a 1.4 K-series, as the ultimate easy starter Seven - fuel injection equals first time starting and good fuel economy?
Whats a fair price for a 1600VX and where can I expect a 1400K to start?
Any further comments much appreciated
Best regards,
Andrew
Thanks for all the comments so far. As I said in the first post I think around 100bhp in a first Caterham will be plenty for me, and my budget is limited to £8000 as I don't think I can justify more than that on what will be a weekend toy. I have no illusions over my driving skills and my old Reliant SS1 1800ti was plenty fast enough for me, so I think I should rule out anything with a sub 6 sec 0-60 time for a first Seven.
I'm beginning to think a 1600VX Classic might me my ideal spec. - not too old, 100bhp ish and should be within budget. Whats peoples thoughts on these? I get a feeling that they are a bit of a poor relation compared to classic crossflows and more modern injected K's, Zetecs, etc. or are they truly the worst of both worlds - not a crossflow but still comes with hard to keep in tune Webers.
Should I try and track down a 1.4 K-series, as the ultimate easy starter Seven - fuel injection equals first time starting and good fuel economy?
Whats a fair price for a 1600VX and where can I expect a 1400K to start?
Any further comments much appreciated
Best regards,
Andrew
My advice with a low budget is not to restrict your options.
go and have a look at any caterham which fit's your budget, you will either fall in love with one of them and buy it on the spot or save up for some more modern.
No matter what caterham you buy it's very unlikly that you won't love it, and be keen on it's vagaries compared to others.
Then main thing is to take the leap, when your heart say's it's right, the whole caterham experience is from the heart as any rational sane person would be sorely pressed to justify a 7 unless there heart was in it.
go and have a look at any caterham which fit's your budget, you will either fall in love with one of them and buy it on the spot or save up for some more modern.
No matter what caterham you buy it's very unlikly that you won't love it, and be keen on it's vagaries compared to others.
Then main thing is to take the leap, when your heart say's it's right, the whole caterham experience is from the heart as any rational sane person would be sorely pressed to justify a 7 unless there heart was in it.
looking at your profile your in lancashire so why not pop along to the lotus 7 Club area meeting.
have a look at http://lads7.co.uk/area%20meeting.html
have a look at http://lads7.co.uk/area%20meeting.html
I'll have a go at justification 'bram - I'm well versed, I've had a lot of practice convincing the missus and myself over the years
No depreciation if you buy right, lowest running costs of a second car you can think of, especially if track only as it's so light. All consumables are cheap, and getting under 25mpg whatever the circumstances is difficult with a 1600K
Re a 1600VX - go in hard with negotiation, they aren't the most sought after. Especially at this time of year. Suspect there's no real reason why they're not rated in the same way as other Sevens, bar fickle magazine reading track car nerds like me
No depreciation if you buy right, lowest running costs of a second car you can think of, especially if track only as it's so light. All consumables are cheap, and getting under 25mpg whatever the circumstances is difficult with a 1600K
Re a 1600VX - go in hard with negotiation, they aren't the most sought after. Especially at this time of year. Suspect there's no real reason why they're not rated in the same way as other Sevens, bar fickle magazine reading track car nerds like me
i own a 1600vx, and from what you say your lookin for a vx would suit you as your first caterham. they do get slated now and then, we would all like r300/r400 or duratecs but on a budget they are great, parts are cheap and theres allways the upgrade route to a 1800 sohc or a 2.0 red top wich is the route im going with a ford rear axle change. what ever caterham you choose you wont get the grin off your face but you will always want more power, fact of life. good luck with your choice.
I have just bought my 3rd 1600 VX. I had one back in 2004 and sold it while I experienced the buy a house/get married stage of life. As soon as I could I bought another which I kept for 18 months before upgrading to a Roadsport A race car with all the trick bits and a 1600 K Series Supersport engine. I have just bought another 1600 VX so that I can go racing. They are cheap, reliable, sound great (once you've managed to coax them into life!) and great fun to chuck about.
Harrietc, I have a 1600x/f and it's a cracking car - yeah ok heavy on juice especially on trips to Le Mans! but £ for £ fantastic. Don't be put off by twin 40's - they make a lovely sound! Once set up / balanced they're fine. I live in Lancs and attend LADS if you want to look at mine, have a chat, come along to LADS - let me know.
Go and look at a variety. Don't rule out any until you have seen them. You could surprise yourself by what is out there.
I bought a 1988 'Super Sprint' that had been made from a 'kit' (you purchased the chassis then component packages e.g. front suspension, rear suspension, interior etc as and when the builder could afford them) over the period 1986 until 1988. It is fitted with Oselli Engineering built crossflow engine at 1700 fast road/Rally spec (244 cam) which should be good for 150bhp (although it was rolling roaded at 133bhp back in 1988).
I bought it for a song in August 2009 after it had been SORN for 3+ years. So I was the 3rd owner and the car had 9,000 miles on the clock. Had it MOT'ed and serviced and then came over to UK and drove it back to Belgium.
I have had a very enjoyable time bringing the car back to life, changing worn things and making improvements. Making it drivable in all weathers and therefore usable. I budgeted for this in the purchase price. The chassis is in remarkable shape (just some surface rust).
Driving it lots revealed and sorted problems that infrequent use never shows up.
So its on a Q plate. A 4 speed gearbox, Ital live axle. Strange Australian 13" alloys (changed for minilite type alloys now). The installation is different from Standard Caterham in many places. I have had fun piecing together its history and sorting the engine breathing so that I don't suffer from 'Eau de Crossflow' after each blat and many other niggles.
Since then I have had 3 trips back to UK. 3 rallies and plenty of other blats. Fellow Belgian 7 owners were amazed that a crossflow could keep up with the more modern K-series that they have and of course with twin 40 DCOEs, even exiting through a rear tail pipe (at the moment) it sounds glorious. The mileage is now 13,500 so I have increased the mileage by 50% in just 2 years.
That's a 22+ year old car, still running on points (no electronics whatsoever) but with modern tyres (Yokohama A021), oils, battery, alternator and weather protection (hi-visibility side screens with armrests (helps one to keep dry) and a half hood. Those changes correct most of criticisms of the super sprint at the time (which Car magazine timed its 0-60mph at 5.6 seconds in its late 80s road test).
The previous owner (a high court judge) was delighted to see the car and the improvements that I had made whilst bring it back to life) last summer. He knew he had to sell it but wanted it to go to a good home and I think I fulfilled his wishes.
So all in all I bought perhaps the complete opposite from what you are planning - do I regret my purchase? Not in the slightest.
The engine is out at the moment (curing oil leaks following a punctured sump during a rally in northern France). The clutch has been changed as a precaution. The cooling system is being modified to a sealed system (although got the original set up to work correctly - very easy to do) and a Megajolt 3D mapped ignition is being installed, now that I have collected all the bits required through BlatChat and eBay.
So look at many and don't rule out any before you have seen them.
I look forward to seeing and hearing about what you purchase - good luck.
I bought a 1988 'Super Sprint' that had been made from a 'kit' (you purchased the chassis then component packages e.g. front suspension, rear suspension, interior etc as and when the builder could afford them) over the period 1986 until 1988. It is fitted with Oselli Engineering built crossflow engine at 1700 fast road/Rally spec (244 cam) which should be good for 150bhp (although it was rolling roaded at 133bhp back in 1988).
I bought it for a song in August 2009 after it had been SORN for 3+ years. So I was the 3rd owner and the car had 9,000 miles on the clock. Had it MOT'ed and serviced and then came over to UK and drove it back to Belgium.
I have had a very enjoyable time bringing the car back to life, changing worn things and making improvements. Making it drivable in all weathers and therefore usable. I budgeted for this in the purchase price. The chassis is in remarkable shape (just some surface rust).
Driving it lots revealed and sorted problems that infrequent use never shows up.
So its on a Q plate. A 4 speed gearbox, Ital live axle. Strange Australian 13" alloys (changed for minilite type alloys now). The installation is different from Standard Caterham in many places. I have had fun piecing together its history and sorting the engine breathing so that I don't suffer from 'Eau de Crossflow' after each blat and many other niggles.
Since then I have had 3 trips back to UK. 3 rallies and plenty of other blats. Fellow Belgian 7 owners were amazed that a crossflow could keep up with the more modern K-series that they have and of course with twin 40 DCOEs, even exiting through a rear tail pipe (at the moment) it sounds glorious. The mileage is now 13,500 so I have increased the mileage by 50% in just 2 years.
That's a 22+ year old car, still running on points (no electronics whatsoever) but with modern tyres (Yokohama A021), oils, battery, alternator and weather protection (hi-visibility side screens with armrests (helps one to keep dry) and a half hood. Those changes correct most of criticisms of the super sprint at the time (which Car magazine timed its 0-60mph at 5.6 seconds in its late 80s road test).
The previous owner (a high court judge) was delighted to see the car and the improvements that I had made whilst bring it back to life) last summer. He knew he had to sell it but wanted it to go to a good home and I think I fulfilled his wishes.
So all in all I bought perhaps the complete opposite from what you are planning - do I regret my purchase? Not in the slightest.
The engine is out at the moment (curing oil leaks following a punctured sump during a rally in northern France). The clutch has been changed as a precaution. The cooling system is being modified to a sealed system (although got the original set up to work correctly - very easy to do) and a Megajolt 3D mapped ignition is being installed, now that I have collected all the bits required through BlatChat and eBay.
So look at many and don't rule out any before you have seen them.
I look forward to seeing and hearing about what you purchase - good luck.
Edited by Clousta on Sunday 1st January 11:43
Edited by Clousta on Sunday 1st January 11:45
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