CSR or R400? Where should I start?
Discussion
Hi, I'm considering a Caterham but having never ownrbor been in one in not sure where to start as there as so many options etc.
I want some thing for both road and track with a real poke (ie 0-60 in sub 4.0). Immediately the R4/500s jump out, but what's the CSR? I notice it too has blistering performance.
Am I mad to start witht the quicker cars?
Any advice would be much appreciated!
I want some thing for both road and track with a real poke (ie 0-60 in sub 4.0). Immediately the R4/500s jump out, but what's the CSR? I notice it too has blistering performance.
Am I mad to start witht the quicker cars?
Any advice would be much appreciated!
The CSR is SV-sized (about 2" wider and 4" longer than the normal S3 body), but has independent rear suspension and inboard front suuspension. There are two engine sizes, 200 and 260 bhp, so are comparable to the R4/500s. My view is that the CSR is less manic than the r400/500 but it is best to drive each and.then make your own mind up.
Steve
Steve
tomvcarter said:
Hi, I'm considering a Caterham but having never ownrbor been in one in not sure where to start as there as so many options etc.
Not sure from the post but it sounds like you haven't driven any 7 yet. How about starting by hiring a 7. --> http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/hire.html
If you would rather have some track time, you can do a Caterham Drive Experience
I don't think there are any CSVs or R500s in the rental fleet but it will get you a good introduction.
Edited by andrewdebbie on Saturday 1st October 07:53
I run a csr 260 for 12 months and currently own an R400 duratec, the Csr is better on the road It seems to travel and manage the bumpy roads better and with a fair bit more room inside the cock pit so if touring is what u plan to do that is the car i would buy, I had my Csr on track twice, It was suppose to be track set up by the factory but it was nothing like my previous S3 or Westfields on track,saying that im sure with some tinkering it could have been tweeked to get the best from it. the down side for me on the Csr was the looks, I just never got away with how wide it looked, it always reminded me of a Previous Robin hood i had owned which i one i try to forget!
The R400 is a lot smaller and feels a lot more cramped inside, my Mrs noticed straight away, I maybe should have measured her backside before I bought it but thought better of it!! It doesnt feel as good on bumpy roads but does feel better when comited into a corner. Looks I much prefer but that could be a personal thing.
Performance between the 2 on paper the Csr is quicker but the R400 feels more frantic and involving to drive, I think a lot of this is the gearing, r400 is a lot lower geared and rattles through the pegs quickly. where as the Csr has long gears, I think it run a 3.3 diff where the R400 runs a 3.9. Cruising on the road the Csr wins hands down but a diff swap could give the R400 the best of both worlds depending on what you want out of the car.
edited to say I noticed on another thread you were also considering a Gt3, If it is going to be a second car for track fun buy the R400, It is so light on consumables and is more than up for the job and well driven will be so much more fun than the Porshe. (Ive just sold a 997 to go back to a caterham) best of luck in what ever you decide Jeff.
The R400 is a lot smaller and feels a lot more cramped inside, my Mrs noticed straight away, I maybe should have measured her backside before I bought it but thought better of it!! It doesnt feel as good on bumpy roads but does feel better when comited into a corner. Looks I much prefer but that could be a personal thing.
Performance between the 2 on paper the Csr is quicker but the R400 feels more frantic and involving to drive, I think a lot of this is the gearing, r400 is a lot lower geared and rattles through the pegs quickly. where as the Csr has long gears, I think it run a 3.3 diff where the R400 runs a 3.9. Cruising on the road the Csr wins hands down but a diff swap could give the R400 the best of both worlds depending on what you want out of the car.
edited to say I noticed on another thread you were also considering a Gt3, If it is going to be a second car for track fun buy the R400, It is so light on consumables and is more than up for the job and well driven will be so much more fun than the Porshe. (Ive just sold a 997 to go back to a caterham) best of luck in what ever you decide Jeff.
Edited by JeffC on Saturday 1st October 08:32
OP,
IMO the CSR is less "fun" than the S3. I only spent a day on the road in a CRS200, but because it has IRS and inboard front suspension, the unsprung weight /. fidgetyness factor goes through the floor. You say you;ve not had a 7, so try to factor in your mind the safety fctor: A 7 is like a bike with 4 wheels. People will "not see you, mate". You have no ABS. People will not anticipate your colsing speed. In either case, you can't drive at speeds where you can't stop / evade in the distance you can see.
On the roads I favour, tis means you need to modulate speed. 60 MPH in an S3 feels fast. 60 in a CSR feels slow. I didn't go out in the CSR again because the s3 sat beside it was a much bigger thrill for less risk.
I never tracked the CSR, but I can promise you that an S3 can be set up to be a total dream to drive on any track, without true expert knowlege, and nothing more expensive than a tape measure as long as you're starting from known settings. If, as the poster above implies you're thinking GT3 or caterham, you need to think about what tracks you are doing. Cadwell is amazing (near perfect) in a 7. it's pants in a 911. oulton's twisty bits are great in a 7, but the fast bits are just foot to the floor boring. Passengering in a GT3, I papped myself on the fast bits, but the twisties were average at best.
Either way, hope you get what you;re after!
IMO the CSR is less "fun" than the S3. I only spent a day on the road in a CRS200, but because it has IRS and inboard front suspension, the unsprung weight /. fidgetyness factor goes through the floor. You say you;ve not had a 7, so try to factor in your mind the safety fctor: A 7 is like a bike with 4 wheels. People will "not see you, mate". You have no ABS. People will not anticipate your colsing speed. In either case, you can't drive at speeds where you can't stop / evade in the distance you can see.
On the roads I favour, tis means you need to modulate speed. 60 MPH in an S3 feels fast. 60 in a CSR feels slow. I didn't go out in the CSR again because the s3 sat beside it was a much bigger thrill for less risk.
I never tracked the CSR, but I can promise you that an S3 can be set up to be a total dream to drive on any track, without true expert knowlege, and nothing more expensive than a tape measure as long as you're starting from known settings. If, as the poster above implies you're thinking GT3 or caterham, you need to think about what tracks you are doing. Cadwell is amazing (near perfect) in a 7. it's pants in a 911. oulton's twisty bits are great in a 7, but the fast bits are just foot to the floor boring. Passengering in a GT3, I papped myself on the fast bits, but the twisties were average at best.
Either way, hope you get what you;re after!
Had a CSR 260 for 12 months which was set up pretty much as a track car. It had race springs and brake bias adjuster and was fantastic on the track. However on the road it was just too quick and you found yourself doing crazy speeds to get the fun out of the car.I tried an r400 sv and ended up swapping the CSR in favour of the R400 as it is just more fun to drive.
I agree with the other comments a basic 7 will make a 911 seem slow on a tight track but on faster tracks you will run out of legs.I changed from a 911 and the r400 is more fun to drive but not very practical.
I agree with the other comments a basic 7 will make a 911 seem slow on a tight track but on faster tracks you will run out of legs.I changed from a 911 and the r400 is more fun to drive but not very practical.
CSR is a good touring car. I had an R300 which was FAB! But, I found it too tight with two in the car, always rubbung shoulders with the passenger.
I test drove a CSR 260, and although I found the front end too soft for my liking, the IRS back end was great for getting the power down on bumpy B roads.
I sold the R300 and went for a self build but with the SV chassis. Much more comfy, more fuel from the slightly bigger tank, more boot space, more elbow room in the cockpit, space behind the passenger seat if you spec. runners, and wider track.
Don't forget, you could have an R400 SV.
ETA as a first Caterham, I wouldn't worry. My first Caterham was the R300, and you'll soon get used to it.
They have a big power/weight difference, but they are also very tractable, so you don't need to drive them fast.
It's just as much fun to short shift through the gears.
One other thing I would add, is to go for 13" wheels, as they are far more prdictable on the limit, with a very progressive breakaway. Tillets are also very comfortable (For some, best to try at CC first) and you can feel everything literaly through the seat of your pants.
I test drove a CSR 260, and although I found the front end too soft for my liking, the IRS back end was great for getting the power down on bumpy B roads.
I sold the R300 and went for a self build but with the SV chassis. Much more comfy, more fuel from the slightly bigger tank, more boot space, more elbow room in the cockpit, space behind the passenger seat if you spec. runners, and wider track.
Don't forget, you could have an R400 SV.
ETA as a first Caterham, I wouldn't worry. My first Caterham was the R300, and you'll soon get used to it.
They have a big power/weight difference, but they are also very tractable, so you don't need to drive them fast.
It's just as much fun to short shift through the gears.
One other thing I would add, is to go for 13" wheels, as they are far more prdictable on the limit, with a very progressive breakaway. Tillets are also very comfortable (For some, best to try at CC first) and you can feel everything literaly through the seat of your pants.
Edited by mickrick on Tuesday 4th October 18:43
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