Can we talk tyres please

[Matt UK]

Evening all,

I need too look at some tyres and being new to the Caterham could do with some opinions - search function only using the google version so not much use.

Car is an S3 narrow-track 1.8k putting out 175bhp. Wheels are 13x6 all round with 185/60 Toyo R888s all round.
I use the car on the road at 7/10th absolute max and enjoy a good track day.
On the road, I like to tour around, give it a squirt of throttle and play on the odd roundabout - I'm not hooning around exploring ultimate grip levels.
Also, on the track I am not really interested in ultimate pace - ultra-fast corning and mega-braking are great for racing, lap times and prixes, but not for me on the average day out.
I actually want to car to be nice and 'mobile'. I love balancing the car on the throttle - it is this that pushes my buttons rather than keeping up with x and overtaking y.
Also, the oil pressure needle wanders around a lot during track days cornering, so a bit less lateral g will probably not give the oil such a hard time.
My previous track car was a Mk MX5 on Toyo T1R tyres - wet track days were my favourite and I had a hoot.


So, what tyre to go for based on keeping the same wheels?

Also, what so you think re sizes? I'm considering balloon 185/70 on the back to give me a bit more radius (the car already has a 6speed box and 3.92 diff, so frantic enough) and sticking with 185/60 on the front?

[fistenburger]

I'm having a similar dilemma with my 7. I've just put fresh R888's on my car i'm finding it a bit too 'secure' for the road, and would like some more fun.
The advice i've received is to put Falken ze912's on the rear as these will last ages and be safe for 7/10ths driving, but easily provoked into slipping if you want to.

Of course, you could just try playing with your roll bars and suspension set up first.... jacking up the rear with 70 profile tyres may have an effect anyway.

[Classic Grad 98]

Caterham fit factory cars with simular power with Avon CR500 tyres, which are a bit pricy but also lighter, more durable, and more progressive than Toyo 888s etc. They are worth looking into. I think you'd be looking at 175/55r13 for your 13x6" wheels.
You'll lose a little ride height so either adjust your suspesion up or go for 185/60r13 instead (Yokohama 048?)
I wouldn't put a taller tyre on the back as you'll end up with excessive rake (rear too much higher than the front)

[Classic Grad 98]

fistenburger said:

The advice i've received is to put Falken ze912's on the rear as these will last ages and be safe for 7/10ths driving, but easily provoked into slipping if you want to.

Who in their right mind would recommend ze912 on the rear and r888 on the front? they're chalk and cheese (almost literally!)

[Matt UK]

What control tyres go on the entry caterham racers?

[Classic Grad 98]

Caterham Academy- 185/70r13 Avon CR322
Caterham roadsport- Avon CR500 in 175/55r13
Caterham superlight- Avon CR500 with 175/55r13 front and 205/55r13 rear (8" wheels on rear)

Caterham Classic Graduates- 185/60r13 Yoko A539
Caterham Super/Mega/Sigma graduates- 185/60r13 Yoko 048

FWIW you have superlight power but if you want to stick with 6" wheels then 175/55r13 would be my recommendation. They will lower your ride height though so it'll have to be adjusted up.

[ewenm]

I use Yoko A539s on my 7 - hard-wearing as I (used to ) do lots of miles, good in all conditions and provokable when I want them to be

[Classic Grad 98]

I'm a classic graduate racer (did you guess!?) so I run the A539s. OP has 175bhp though compared to my 100 so I think they may be a tad hairy!

P.S. Came back to add that Yoko 021 in 185/70r13 are a popular caterham choice and would give you the extra ride height you want. They're also much cheaper than most of the others from George Polley Motorsport

P.S. Also to add that sprinters like Kumho tyres and Avon ZZR are also recommended by caterhammers.

[Matt UK]

Classic Grad 98 said:

I'm a classic graduate racer (did you guess!?)

Hence the question

Classic Grad 98 said:

175bhp though compared to my 100 so I think they may be a tad hairy!

[Matt UK]

ewenm said:

I use Yoko A539s on my 7 - hard-wearing as I (used to ) do lots of miles, good in all conditions and provokable when I want them to be

Good call, I'll investigate. What tyre size / bhp are you running?

[ewenm]

I run 15s on the road and 13s on track (with some very knackered semi-slicks at the moment). The Yoko 539s are on the 15s.

Edit: Forgot the power: 160bhp.

Edited by ewenm on Wednesday 21st September 20:17

[downsman]

I've changed to a021r Yokohamas, because lots of Caterham owners use and recommend them.
They have been great in the wet, and survived a dry track day without too much wear.

Also, they are very reasonably priced in 185x70x13
(mine are for 14 inch wheels so a bit more expensive, but I still got 4 for £288)

[Aeroscreens]

I use the A021Rs in 185/70/13 profile on my 170bhp Zetec and they are fine for the road. They don't like getting too hot on a trackday though, remember they are really only a wet motorsport tyre, and a £50 per corner (inc VAT) that IMHO represents excellent VFM.

[Dave J]

Who in their right mind would recommend ze912 on the rear and r888 on the front? they're chalk and cheese (almost literally!).........

they are fine providing you have 230+ bhp to steer with the rear !

all the usual tyres - r888, cr, kumho, 21 etc have too much grip but you still need to be able to brake so 888 on the front take care of this :-)

[fistenburger]

Classic Grad 98 said:

fistenburger said:

The advice i've received is to put Falken ze912's on the rear as these will last ages and be safe for 7/10ths driving, but easily provoked into slipping if you want to.

Who in their right mind would recommend ze912 on the rear and r888 on the front? they're chalk and cheese (almost literally!)

Exactly !!! I'm not thick I believe that the OP was after a tyre choice that would allow 7/10ths predictability, but easily provokable rear end if needed. This is the solution. If you want to have R888's all round you have a safe, but very anodyne driving experience. I was just answering the question.....

[downsman]

Dave J said:

all the usual tyres - r888, cr, kumho, 21 etc have too much grip but you still need to be able to brake so 888 on the front take care of this :-)

I can see the thinking behind this, if you want a lively tail.
However, unless you fit and set up a brake bias adjuster, the result would be the rears locking before the fronts in heavy braking and would make the car very unstable in an emergency.

The 888s wouldn't help braking much in wet weather either.

[Classic Grad 98]

Agree with the above completely. Caterhams are overbraked at the rear already and fast road/race drivers compensate by putting much sportier brake pad compounds on the front. If you then put an unsuitable (which ze912 is in my opinion) tyre on the rear then you'll have a car with excessive rake which will roll oversteer and then swap ends at the drop of a hat if you trail brake. Even in a straight line I expect the rears would lock up far too early.
Forget it, it's a bad idea except for if you're doing a drift day or something.

[sam919]

Matt UK said:

Evening all,

I need too look at some tyres and being new to the Caterham could do with some opinions - search function only using the google version so not much use.

Car is an S3 narrow-track 1.8k putting out 175bhp. Wheels are 13x6 all round with 185/60 Toyo R888s all round.
I use the car on the road at 7/10th absolute max and enjoy a good track day.
On the road, I like to tour around, give it a squirt of throttle and play on the odd roundabout - I'm not hooning around exploring ultimate grip levels.
Also, on the track I am not really interested in ultimate pace - ultra-fast corning and mega-braking are great for racing, lap times and prixes, but not for me on the average day out.
I actually want to car to be nice and 'mobile'. I love balancing the car on the throttle - it is this that pushes my buttons rather than keeping up with x and overtaking y.
Also, the oil pressure needle wanders around a lot during track days cornering, so a bit less lateral g will probably not give the oil such a hard time.
My previous track car was a Mk MX5 on Toyo T1R tyres - wet track days were my favourite and I had a hoot.


So, what tyre to go for based on keeping the same wheels?

Also, what so you think re sizes? I'm considering balloon 185/70 on the back to give me a bit more radius (the car already has a 6speed box and 3.92 diff, so frantic enough) and sticking with 185/60 on the front?

To be honest, i think your pretty much ok with the R888. I had them on a fury blade then an R400 race car, and also my mate tried them on a Roadsport. They worked fine, and the rears were the 205 (cant remember the profile) so i would have thought 185 on 6's would be able to loose traction with 175bhp.
Before you change have you tried messing about with tyre pressures to get what you want, on track 21 all round hot is an approx but if you experiment with higher pressures/ less tyre wall movement you may find you get your loss of traction. Get back on the road and put them back to what you normally use, if it starts raining hard road or track put them right up to 30 or so as this opens the tread more for water dispersion. It might be a quick fix until you decide on tyres. But as above the R888 is a good all rounder for most caterham types i have found. Kumho excellent in dry guff in wet.

[Dave J]

stating the obvious ,with any tyre change you alter brake bias, rake and possibly spring rates if they are slicks or 888 or small wall cr500 or 512 ....

[Matt UK]

All, thanks for the great suggestions.

I think I am going to go with a set of Yoko A539s with 185/70 R13 on the rear and 185/60 R13 on the front.

Should give me the all-weather ability I want and loose enough on a track day I desire.

Thanks all