K series / wet sump / R888 tyres / track days - oil pressure
Discussion
Ok, I'm no expert, but.....
The oil pressure gauge may well lag behind the actual pressure, so it's possible the fluctuations are worse than you think.
Obviously oil starvation will ruin your engine in the end, so best not to just ignore it.
Do you have the correct oil level? My hand book suggests checking the level just after running, so the level is higher than if it is checked after standing for some time.
I have had problems like this with cars in the past, so with my new Caterham I've fitted a 35psi oil warning light switch as well as the gauge.
If you fit a light at least it grabs you attention and you're more likely to be aware that the pressure drop is happening.
I know slicks and a wet sump are no good, but I don't know about R888s. Hopefully someone who knows more about K series Caterhams will come along.
Good luck
The oil pressure gauge may well lag behind the actual pressure, so it's possible the fluctuations are worse than you think.
Obviously oil starvation will ruin your engine in the end, so best not to just ignore it.
Do you have the correct oil level? My hand book suggests checking the level just after running, so the level is higher than if it is checked after standing for some time.
I have had problems like this with cars in the past, so with my new Caterham I've fitted a 35psi oil warning light switch as well as the gauge.
If you fit a light at least it grabs you attention and you're more likely to be aware that the pressure drop is happening.
I know slicks and a wet sump are no good, but I don't know about R888s. Hopefully someone who knows more about K series Caterhams will come along.
Good luck
downsman said:
Ok, I'm no expert, but.....
The oil pressure gauge may well lag behind the actual pressure, so it's possible the fluctuations are worse than you think.
Obviously oil starvation will ruin your engine in the end, so best not to just ignore it.
Do you have the correct oil level? My hand book suggests checking the level just after running, so the level is higher than if it is checked after standing for some time.
I have had problems like this with cars in the past, so with my new Caterham I've fitted a 35psi oil warning light switch as well as the gauge.
If you fit a light at least it grabs you attention and you're more likely to be aware that the pressure drop is happening.
I know slicks and a wet sump are no good, but I don't know about R888s. Hopefully someone who knows more about K series Caterhams will come along.
Good luck
Downsman, I think you meant the other way around?The oil pressure gauge may well lag behind the actual pressure, so it's possible the fluctuations are worse than you think.
Obviously oil starvation will ruin your engine in the end, so best not to just ignore it.
Do you have the correct oil level? My hand book suggests checking the level just after running, so the level is higher than if it is checked after standing for some time.
I have had problems like this with cars in the past, so with my new Caterham I've fitted a 35psi oil warning light switch as well as the gauge.
If you fit a light at least it grabs you attention and you're more likely to be aware that the pressure drop is happening.
I know slicks and a wet sump are no good, but I don't know about R888s. Hopefully someone who knows more about K series Caterhams will come along.
Good luck
The oil level will be lower if it's jut been run. It's higher after standing, because the oil has time to drain back down to the sump.
IMO you need a drysump if you're going to track the car.
When I bought my R300 back in 2005, I discussed this with Caterham, as I had a ordered a LHD car and there was some issues with mounting the scavange pump.
They told me I didn't need a dry sump, unless I was going to track the car. Which I didn't.
mickrick said:
Downsman, I think you meant the other way around?
The oil level will be lower if it's jut been run. It's higher after standing, because the oil has time to drain back down to the sump.
With the K series (wet sump) the oil's checked with the engine running, so Downsman has it right and you've got the reason right The oil level will be lower if it's jut been run. It's higher after standing, because the oil has time to drain back down to the sump.
If the engine isn't hot enough the oil takes longer to return to the sump giving a falsly low reading
Charles' post on Blatchat is excellent
I have a 160hp 1.8k with Apollo that has done about 16k miles of which a significant proportion are track miles. I have a mechanical pressure guage and agree with everything Charles said in his Blatchat post as pressure does vary wildly on a lap. The only difference is that for me it's left handers that are where the pressure will drop as low as 20psi.
It's for this reason that despite being a trackday regular I've never gone for anything stickier than CR500s as I'm convinced more grip equals less oil pressure! If I ever get round to putting an R400 engine in it a dry sump is an absolute must.
It's for this reason that despite being a trackday regular I've never gone for anything stickier than CR500s as I'm convinced more grip equals less oil pressure! If I ever get round to putting an R400 engine in it a dry sump is an absolute must.
Here's the video. If you ignore the actual driving, you can see the needle wandering around through both left and right corners at speeds I felt were far from full-attack:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psdWtUP54Gc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psdWtUP54Gc
I think there's some confusion here. Mickrick has it right. The oil level will be lower if checked when the engine is running or immediately after running, as much will still be circulating the engine. It will be higher if the engine has been left to stand for a while after running and oil has run back into the sump.
Whilst instruction from Caterham says check whilst running this can be difficult and give a false reading because of splash. It is therefore acceptable to check IMMEDIATELY (within seconds) after switching off the engine i.e. before oil has had chance to run back into the sump.
All this of course relates to a K series motor.
Whilst instruction from Caterham says check whilst running this can be difficult and give a false reading because of splash. It is therefore acceptable to check IMMEDIATELY (within seconds) after switching off the engine i.e. before oil has had chance to run back into the sump.
All this of course relates to a K series motor.
Thanks for pointing that out.
It was late at night and what I meant to say is that if you check the level just after running and top it up, the resulting level in the sump will be higher than if it was topped up after all the oil has dropped into the sump.
Not the clearest way of putting it
It was late at night and what I meant to say is that if you check the level just after running and top it up, the resulting level in the sump will be higher than if it was topped up after all the oil has dropped into the sump.
Not the clearest way of putting it
The reason they suggest checking with the engine running is that this works for engines with an Apollo fitted and regular wet sump ones. If your engine has an Apollo, it will drain back into the sump when left latent and it will be impossible to determine the oil level correctly.
I always check the level by allowing the engine to settle for 30 seconds after running, this will allow 99% of the loose oil to drain without flooding the sump with oil from the Apollo(if fitted).
Dave
I always check the level by allowing the engine to settle for 30 seconds after running, this will allow 99% of the loose oil to drain without flooding the sump with oil from the Apollo(if fitted).
Dave
I think there's some confusion here. Mickrick has it right. The oil level will be lower if checked when the engine is running or immediately after running, as much will still be circulating the engine. It will be higher if the engine has been left to stand for a while after running and oil has run back into the sump.
Whilst instruction from Caterham says check whilst running this can be difficult and give a false reading because of splash. It is therefore acceptable to check IMMEDIATELY (within seconds) after switching off the engine i.e. before oil has had chance to run back into the sump.
All this of course relates to a K series motor.
Whilst instruction from Caterham says check whilst running this can be difficult and give a false reading because of splash. It is therefore acceptable to check IMMEDIATELY (within seconds) after switching off the engine i.e. before oil has had chance to run back into the sump.
All this of course relates to a K series motor.
I used to have a K series with Apollo and wet sump. With 888's GG compound I used to get widely fluctuating oil pressure on track. However after I performed the sump gasket mod to de foam, on track days after even with softer SG 888's i had no oil pressure fluctuation. Both these were with mechanical oil pressure gauge.
I have no idea how or why this happened...
Matt
I have no idea how or why this happened...
Matt
Matt230 said:
I used to have a K series with Apollo and wet sump. With 888's GG compound I used to get widely fluctuating oil pressure on track. However after I performed the sump gasket mod to de foam, on track days after even with softer SG 888's i had no oil pressure fluctuation. Both these were with mechanical oil pressure gauge.
I have no idea how or why this happened...
Matt
Interesting. I have the Apollo, mechanical oil pressure gauge and currently run de-foam. I have no idea how or why this happened...
Matt
My thinking was that I should drop the sump and foam-up.
Confused
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