Possible purchase, help needed
Discussion
Hello chaps/esses
Just jumping over from the Elise forum for a quick look around.
I am in a bit of a split mind about the next step to take for weekend/track fun. Currently I have a Elise 111s, basically std. Options for the next step are either an Exige (prob S1), Superlight (that's why I am here!) or just uprating the suspension and a few other bits on the Elise.
I am basically looking for your collecive help in finding a Superlight (where do you look for them?). I am also after any views as to what to go for (R, R300, R400). I am wanting to keep the cost to as close to the £20k mark as possible, so the R400 may be a bit of a stretch, but if it is really worth the extra over the R then I could be persuaded. The idea being to get the car for use on the road as well as track with the long term aim to turn it totally track orientated. Is the R upgradable? If so could you take it to basically R500 spec? (Could be a real numpty question, but there you go!)
So, come on then, talk me into a "proper" Lotus!!
Just jumping over from the Elise forum for a quick look around.
I am in a bit of a split mind about the next step to take for weekend/track fun. Currently I have a Elise 111s, basically std. Options for the next step are either an Exige (prob S1), Superlight (that's why I am here!) or just uprating the suspension and a few other bits on the Elise.
I am basically looking for your collecive help in finding a Superlight (where do you look for them?). I am also after any views as to what to go for (R, R300, R400). I am wanting to keep the cost to as close to the £20k mark as possible, so the R400 may be a bit of a stretch, but if it is really worth the extra over the R then I could be persuaded. The idea being to get the car for use on the road as well as track with the long term aim to turn it totally track orientated. Is the R upgradable? If so could you take it to basically R500 spec? (Could be a real numpty question, but there you go!)
So, come on then, talk me into a "proper" Lotus!!
Where would you buy one -
Caterham Cars is the obvious answer. They always seem to have a supply of second hand R500s.
The For Sale section of Blat Chat is another possible area to look.
The Lotus 7 Club magazine "Low Flying" has a For Sale section although you have to become a member of the club to receive the magazine (£35 annual subscription).
The R500 is a very specially tuned version of the Superlight series. The engines are prepared by Minister Engineering so an "upgrade" of an "ordinary" Superlight R (R300 or R400) would involve a complete new engine.
Caterham Cars is the obvious answer. They always seem to have a supply of second hand R500s.
The For Sale section of Blat Chat is another possible area to look.
The Lotus 7 Club magazine "Low Flying" has a For Sale section although you have to become a member of the club to receive the magazine (£35 annual subscription).
The R500 is a very specially tuned version of the Superlight series. The engines are prepared by Minister Engineering so an "upgrade" of an "ordinary" Superlight R (R300 or R400) would involve a complete new engine.
Have you checked the classifieds here on PistonHeads?
The R400 is only slightly different to the Superlight R in having the roller throttle bodies (adding about 8bhp).
You should be able to get a nice SLR for £20K: consider a dry sumped engine if you plan to do a fair number of track days.
Oh, and once you've tried one you won't go back to the Elise.
The R400 is only slightly different to the Superlight R in having the roller throttle bodies (adding about 8bhp).
You should be able to get a nice SLR for £20K: consider a dry sumped engine if you plan to do a fair number of track days.
Oh, and once you've tried one you won't go back to the Elise.
I had an Elise until a couple of years ago. Upgraditis took hold and eventually it had around 190-195hp plus improved suspension, brakes etc.
I now have a Superlight, the basic 135hp item. It's 0-60 is the same as the 190 Elise, and it corners and brakes as well as or better than any Elise I've driven. And..... I've been able to catch the back every time it's started to slide - in the Elise, most of the time the back end was gone before I'd started to react.
Upgraditis has struck again, of course. It's relatively esay to get this engine up to R300 spec via Caterham (160hp) or up to 180-ish via DVA. That's approaching R400 performance, still on teh 1.6 engine. Even if I fit forged pistons and new big ends, plus biggere rear wheels and tyres to cope with the extra power, the cost of the car plus the mods will be way less than 20k.
For a bit more than 20k total I could have a 220hp Zetec or Duratec.
A couple of other comments. The Caterham is far noisier than the Elise, particularly with the hood up. Answer - ear defenders plus music ffrom an MP3 player. The Caterham's hood does not leak - unlike the (mk1) Elise's.
Subjectively - I would not go back to an Elise. Even with 135hp the driving experience in the Caterham is way better.
HTH.
Alan
I now have a Superlight, the basic 135hp item. It's 0-60 is the same as the 190 Elise, and it corners and brakes as well as or better than any Elise I've driven. And..... I've been able to catch the back every time it's started to slide - in the Elise, most of the time the back end was gone before I'd started to react.
Upgraditis has struck again, of course. It's relatively esay to get this engine up to R300 spec via Caterham (160hp) or up to 180-ish via DVA. That's approaching R400 performance, still on teh 1.6 engine. Even if I fit forged pistons and new big ends, plus biggere rear wheels and tyres to cope with the extra power, the cost of the car plus the mods will be way less than 20k.
For a bit more than 20k total I could have a 220hp Zetec or Duratec.
A couple of other comments. The Caterham is far noisier than the Elise, particularly with the hood up. Answer - ear defenders plus music ffrom an MP3 player. The Caterham's hood does not leak - unlike the (mk1) Elise's.
Subjectively - I would not go back to an Elise. Even with 135hp the driving experience in the Caterham is way better.
HTH.
Alan
Guys
Thanks very much for the help!! I have just been searching through all the various clasifieds and missed the ones right under my nose......
There is a Superlight R (C7 GON) and a blackbird engined 7 up on PH For Sale board. Again, possibly a numpty question, what are the dis/advantages of having a bike engined car? If any?
Thanks, going to go and stop people in the street now!!
Thanks very much for the help!! I have just been searching through all the various clasifieds and missed the ones right under my nose......
There is a Superlight R (C7 GON) and a blackbird engined 7 up on PH For Sale board. Again, possibly a numpty question, what are the dis/advantages of having a bike engined car? If any?
Thanks, going to go and stop people in the street now!!
Before buying anything try to get a drive/ride in each example - if you're a SELOC member you ought to be able to get a run in a Superlight, Fireblade and R300 at virtually every trackday and probably an SLR/R400 or equivalent although I don't personally know anyone with such a car that's a trackday regular (well, since I sold my SLR that is!)
BEC versus "normal"? don't even start that debate here - just go to www.blatchat.com and post! I will sayy that the expereience is different - BEC gives you sequential 'box, less torque, very noisy...
Call Caterham South up and tell them you've got an Elise, want to switch and would like to line up a couple of test drives - book these with them and go down there (ideally in the week when it is less busy).
£20k will easily buy you a Superlight or Superlight R (Allegro's C7 Gon SLR could probably be had for this money and Richard's Blackbird is circa £17k). I'm not sure about the secondhand value of an R300 but I guess they're below £20k but I doubt an R400 is that low yet.
BEC versus "normal"? don't even start that debate here - just go to www.blatchat.com and post! I will sayy that the expereience is different - BEC gives you sequential 'box, less torque, very noisy...
Call Caterham South up and tell them you've got an Elise, want to switch and would like to line up a couple of test drives - book these with them and go down there (ideally in the week when it is less busy).
£20k will easily buy you a Superlight or Superlight R (Allegro's C7 Gon SLR could probably be had for this money and Richard's Blackbird is circa £17k). I'm not sure about the secondhand value of an R300 but I guess they're below £20k but I doubt an R400 is that low yet.
Alan, the Duratec exhaust exits on the driver's side - so add on £1500 ish for the reskin and paint. I am pretty sure the Zetec exhaust exits on the passenger side though but to my mind you might as well keep the K in the car rather than replace it with a Zetec as the engine weighs quite a bit more than a K...
Mike knows precisely the cost of Duratecs - he's researched it heavily, although £10k isn't far off the mark I'd say for a "proven" Duratec such as Raceline, Minister or Mick Attree.
For the money you're talking about you could buy an R500 of course, or save up your pennies and wait to see what Caterham decide to announce about engine suppliers in 2005
Mike knows precisely the cost of Duratecs - he's researched it heavily, although £10k isn't far off the mark I'd say for a "proven" Duratec such as Raceline, Minister or Mick Attree.
For the money you're talking about you could buy an R500 of course, or save up your pennies and wait to see what Caterham decide to announce about engine suppliers in 2005
RS,
Yep, knew about the Duratec exhaust drivers side exit - Zetec is on the passenger side.
Zetec 2l is 15kg heavier than the k-series (so I'm told).
R400s and R500s seem to be in the range £26k upwards, so quite a lot more than the following 2 options:
Current car plus DVA 180hp = "R350 equivalent" would cost around 18k incl. the original car
Current car plus Caterham 1.8SS 160 upgrade = "R300 equivalent" would cost around 17k incl.
Like you - I await with interest the official "engine supplier" news.
Cheers,
Alan
Yep, knew about the Duratec exhaust drivers side exit - Zetec is on the passenger side.
Zetec 2l is 15kg heavier than the k-series (so I'm told).
R400s and R500s seem to be in the range £26k upwards, so quite a lot more than the following 2 options:
Current car plus DVA 180hp = "R350 equivalent" would cost around 18k incl. the original car
Current car plus Caterham 1.8SS 160 upgrade = "R300 equivalent" would cost around 17k incl.
Like you - I await with interest the official "engine supplier" news.
Cheers,
Alan
Alan,
If you've got time then read this thread [url]www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=4&f=101&t=91969&h=0[/url]
If you've still got questions then just ask.
cheers,
Mike
If you've got time then read this thread [url]www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=4&f=101&t=91969&h=0[/url]
If you've still got questions then just ask.
cheers,
Mike
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