Faster Caterhams vs. slower ones

[BlackPrince]

Am perusing Caterham ads, as I'll need a car soon. Have the budget (and the balls :P ) for the quicker variants (probably CSR as I find the R500 rather narrow and uncomfortable for my 14 stone self), but am not really so sure if thats what I really want.

Went down to Caterham, but was incredibly wet so salesman took me out in a CSR260 but I wasn't able to drive it.

Coming off a 1000cc bike so am used to mental acceleration, and would like to reproduce that in a car but not at the expense of fun, if that makes any sense.

I live in Ireland and tend to work weekends so its a bit of a pain to get back down there again, so figured id solicit opinions on here.

HOpefully a few of you have owned both the faster and slower variants, and am wondering how you found each of them.

Cheers!

[V7SLR]

I started with 130bhp then matured to 244 IMHO if you intend to use it mostly on the road, around 200 ish is about ideal. If it's more track use, you can never have enough I sold my VFR750 when I bought the 7 and although straight-line acceleration was reduced, the ability to get round the twisties is probably far greater in virtually any 7. Anyone who tells you they can use 200+bhp on the road in anything other than a straight line is lying - or simply irresponsible! Compared to a bike you're nearer the ground and have loads more grip ...... it's going to feel exciting!

As far as size is concerned, 14 stone isn't OTT for the narrow chassis assuming you're not 5'6" tall or have very wide hips! I'm 6' and have been over 14 stone - no issues with space whatsoever.

[BlackPrince]

V7SLR said:

I started with 130bhp then matured to 244 IMHO if you intend to use it mostly on the road, around 200 ish is about ideal. If it's more track use, you can never have enough I sold my VFR750 when I bought the 7 and although straight-line acceleration was reduced, the ability to get round the twisties is probably far greater in virtually any 7. Anyone who tells you they can use 200+bhp on the road in anything other than a straight line is lying - or simply irresponsible! Compared to a bike you're nearer the ground and have loads more grip ...... it's going to feel exciting!

As far as size is concerned, 14 stone isn't OTT for the narrow chassis assuming you're not 5'6" tall or have very wide hips! I'm 6' and have been over 14 stone - no issues with space whatsoever.

I sat in a new R500 at Caterham South, and it was horrible! Granted I've put on a few pounds over the years (which I plan to lose this year), but perhaps I suppose it is the hips thing. My fat is just my belly really so perhaps I have wide hips (weird to hear myself say that, have only ever heard women say it before).

I'm also a bit fidgety so felt a bit weird all scrunched up. Have been on uncomfortable bikes before but at least you can stretch your legs out for a while or your arms or whatever but in a narrow-bodied Caterham, that one anyway, i felt it to be uncomfortable (I wish I didnt though as my ideal choice is a standard bodied R series).

V7, how do you find the Caterham compared to your bike? This is almost an idiotic question im sure but which is more "fun" or exciting? And please dont say both

[V7SLR]

Caterham and bike are quite different and may depend upon your confidence in/on each ...... I have much more confidence in my ability in the 7 than I ever did on the bike, and as such ultimately to me it's more exciting!
Also, although you can stretch out occasionally on a bike, in reality you tend to be confined to a fairly limited riding position - hanging off the seat tends to be for nutters! I don't think you move any more or less in a 7 - it just "feels" a tighter space. It's nice not to need to use leathers and a helmet though!

[NuisanceFactor]

There doesn't appear to be a regular Lotus Seven Club meeting in Nothern Ireland at the moment (I'm guilty of seeing that you say you're in Ireland and your profile says UK), but [e-mail] is listed as a contact; he's a helpful chap with lots of 7 experience and it's worth dropping him a line.

[Risky]

S3 should be fine - I'm 6 foot and 16 stone. It depends what seats you have. I can't get my backside into tillets, which I suspect were in the R500 you tried. Leather seats should be fine. You need seats which are close fitting to be "part of the car".

[V7SLR]

NuisanceFactor said:

but [e-mail] is listed as a contact; he's a helpful chap with lots of 7 experience and it's worth dropping him a line.

And he has a 240bhp Caterham

[anonymous-user]

I've got a relatively tame 1600 Crossflow. And intend keeping it that way.
It's rapid enough for today's traffic and roads, and still a hoot to drive with the so called "lack" of power actually making it more fun in my experience as it means better speed/power management instead of just planting your right foot.
It's not about arriving first, it's about having the most fun on the way.

[S47]

I'd say 160BHP is ample for almost anyone [even those with above average driving abilities] on the road - to use anymore at 7 type speeds on twisty bits would IMO be dangerous. Sooner or later you're gonna come across something on the road which you are unable to avoid:- cyclists riding 4 abreast, horses, sheep. even cars parked in silly places are all potentially lethal when travelling at 7 speeds on twisty bits. 7's wern't designed to blast straight roads at silly speed they were designed for going around bends quickly and it's this facet which makes 7's so enjoyable on the right roads [B roads]
IMO buy a 2 litre 160BHP car and master it. it'll take you many years to really master it. If you feel you can drive like LH or JB on the roads then you're NOT driving on the correct roads [For a 7] or maybe you really are a JB in disguise though somehow I dobt it
Hope this helps

Edited by S47 on Wednesday 6th July 10:49

[johnvthe2nd]

to add to that, in my limited experience I would say that the 6spd box is worth quite a lot of horsepower

[BlackPrince]

S47]I'd say 160BHP is ample for almost anyone [even those with above average driving abilities said:

on the road - to use anymore at 7 type speeds on twisty bits would IMO be dangerous. Sooner or later you're gonna come across something on the road which you are unable to avoid:- cyclists riding 4 abreast, horses, sheep. even cars parked in silly places are all potentially lethal when travelling at 7 speeds on twisty bits. 7's wern't designed to blast straight roads at silly speed they were designed for going around bends quickly and it's this facet which makes 7's so enjoyable on the right roads [B roads]
IMO buy a 2 litre 160BHP car and master it. it'll take you many years to really master it. If you feel you can drive like LH or JB on the roads then you're NOT driving on the correct roads [For a 7] or maybe you really are a JB in disguise though somehow I dobt it
Hope this helps

Edited by S47 on Wednesday 6th July 10:49

Sorry - LH? JB?

I assume JB isn't James Blunt ,or Jerry Burgess - Valentino Rossi's chief engineer?

[sjmmarsh]

I had 150bhp originally and then upgraded to a CSR260. The 150bhp roadsport was fine on the road as most of the performance you can use is the handling round corners.

However...

If you are used to a big bike I would go for the 260 as there is something addictive about the acceleration, even if you can only use it in short bursts. You do need to moderate the throttle rather than just floor it, particularly if you want to keep your licence.

You will also be able to keep up with bikes out for a run - they will still leave you for dead on the straights, but you reel them back in through the corners. I love the double take you get when they realise that you ate still behind them.

Steve

[BlackPrince]

sjmmarsh said:

I had 150bhp originally and then upgraded to a CSR260. The 150bhp roadsport was fine on the road as most of the performance you can use is the handling round corners.

However...

If you are used to a big bike I would go for the 260 as there is something addictive about the acceleration, even if you can only use it in short bursts. You do need to moderate the throttle rather than just floor it, particularly if you want to keep your licence.

You will also be able to keep up with bikes out for a run - they will still leave you for dead on the straights, but you reel them back in through the corners. I love the double take you get when they realise that you ate still behind them.

Steve

I've read reviews and also people's personal beliefs that the CSR isn't as engaging as the 'normal' Caterhams in terms of flickability etc. Do you find that to be true or no?

[Ecosseven]

My opinion is that it follows the law of diminishing returns. A £35K R500 / CSR will be a huge amount of fun but perhaps not 3.5 times the fun of a basic K series roadsport. My car is a 1400SS with the 6 speed box and whilst it’s not that fast (and nowhere near even a 600cc bike in a straight line) it’s still great fun to drive. The other good thing about a lower powered Caterham is that you are less likely to get points on your licence whilst wringing the most out of the engine!

I prefer to looks of the S3 chassis and being 5’ 8” and around 10.5 stone I don’t need an SV.

Of course the final decision is up to you and I’ve heard that the CSR chassis is fantastic on the road.

Edited by Ecosseven on Thursday 7th July 07:02

[V7SLR]

But the law of diminishing returns is not linear ...... a good condition 190-200bhp Superlight R can be bought for £15K to £17K - that's similar pence per bhp to a Roadsport.

[BertBert]

I always get a deep sinking feeling inside at the thought of trying to re-create one driving experience in another form that the manufacturer didn't intend!

OP you need to drive a few 7's to see what part of the experience is appealing rather than go in trying to get a 7 that accelerates like your bike. What would be the point? You could just keep your bike and it'd be much cheaper!

If you are dead-set on top power and need the bigger scale, you could get an SV with R500 power?

Bert

[GetCarter]

IMHO it depends where you live. I had a 140bhp roadsport and an R500 in the Cotswolds, and the 140 was easily quick enough. I'm now in the North West Highlands and the roads are fast enough and empty enough to enjoy another R500

[mattmurdock]

Would definitely recommend trying an SV with tillets - the R500 tillets will flex at the hips given more space, or you can fit the wider CSR tillets. When I was deciding, Caterham South grabbed a tillet and sat it on the floor so I could sit in it and feel the flex (as you will struggle to find an SV with the R500 tillets, mine is the only one I am aware of).

My R500 SV is plenty roomy enough for me (5'11" and around 15 stone) - I did fit in an S3, but decided on the SV in order to be able to passenger people more effectively (more elbow room, and potential to fit larger passengers) as I like to share

[BlackPrince]

Thanks for all the replies!

Atm I have a CSL and I like it (well I just got it tbh, and as I went on holiday right after I bought it, i haven't even driven it!), but I'll be in Ireland for just a few more years and I'd like the chance to experience a Caterham before i go back to Canada. I know you can hire them so that might be something Ill look into.

My next question might seem a bit weird (tho I like to think to bikers it isn't, though it probably is).

Do you get a spiritual sense of happiness, and would you use words like sublime to describe the Caterham? Or does it feel just like a faster more involved car? Reason I ask is that, if someone asked me if they should buy a bike and run it for a year to try it out, even as sole transport, I'd say yes, as though I hate religion, I feel a spriitual sense of happiness and joy I've never got from a car, when I ride my bike. Admittedly cold rainy weather tends to put a damper on that, but I'm always better for having arrived on my bike and not to sound all hokey, but its very therapeutic, soothes my soul, and makes me a better kinder person. Wondering if anyone has similar thoughts on their Caterham?

[BertBert]

BlackPrince said:

Wondering if anyone has similar thoughts on their Caterham?

The only two cars I have owned that have done this have been my caterham (and for me 1600 supersport did it best) and my 996 GT3RS.

I'm about to sound like a condescending tt (no change there), but my heart is lifted at the thought that you understand caterhams before you've had one and are not just another knobby biker!
Bert