What options should I pick for a new Caterham
Discussion
Having made the decision that I want to build a Caterham, I now have the difficult decision about spec/options. Could you share your views?
I am looking for a touring rather than out-and-out racing spec. I would like to do some track days, but mainly interested in having fun rather than being the fastest car on track. Mostly I would use it for trips, including some longer distance. Based on the fact that I want to build the car, the CSR and the faster Superlights are out, so the choice seems to be between a Classic or Roadsport.
Is the SV worth having - don't need it, but I think it has more storage space.
How much better is the Sigma against the K-Series?
I have heard the 5 speed isn't great, but is the 6-speed worth £2,850 extra?
How about the Limited Slip Dif - worth £1,250?
What seats would you pick?
How about the 4-point harness (and race or road)?
And any other items of wisdom you could share?
Thanks!
I am looking for a touring rather than out-and-out racing spec. I would like to do some track days, but mainly interested in having fun rather than being the fastest car on track. Mostly I would use it for trips, including some longer distance. Based on the fact that I want to build the car, the CSR and the faster Superlights are out, so the choice seems to be between a Classic or Roadsport.
Is the SV worth having - don't need it, but I think it has more storage space.
How much better is the Sigma against the K-Series?
I have heard the 5 speed isn't great, but is the 6-speed worth £2,850 extra?
How about the Limited Slip Dif - worth £1,250?
What seats would you pick?
How about the 4-point harness (and race or road)?
And any other items of wisdom you could share?
Thanks!
I have been where you are intending to go.
Had the K 1600 engine as the Sigma at the time (2009) was limited in its ability to be upgraded.
My touring spec included
Leather seats
5 Speed box - Much better for touring than the 6 speed
Carpets
4 point harnesses
Paint - Not one for polishing Aluminium
Windscreen
Hood - (Never used)now replaced with a Soft Bits Half Hood
Soft Bits E Bag
S3 Chassis - Just take less!
Soft Bits Touring Tunnel Bag
Heater
Had the K 1600 engine as the Sigma at the time (2009) was limited in its ability to be upgraded.
My touring spec included
Leather seats
5 Speed box - Much better for touring than the 6 speed
Carpets
4 point harnesses
Paint - Not one for polishing Aluminium
Windscreen
Hood - (Never used)now replaced with a Soft Bits Half Hood
Soft Bits E Bag
S3 Chassis - Just take less!
Soft Bits Touring Tunnel Bag
Heater
Personally, given your intended use for the car I would go for the following:
Not SV unless you really need the space,
K Series,
5 speed,
No LSD,
Leather seats (or tilletts if you fit them properly),
Race 4 point harness,
In my opinion you are better off spending money on doing things with the car, e.g. tours and track days, than on getting a really high spec car. Caterham Academy cars are very low in spec but still gear fun to drive.
Not SV unless you really need the space,
K Series,
5 speed,
No LSD,
Leather seats (or tilletts if you fit them properly),
Race 4 point harness,
In my opinion you are better off spending money on doing things with the car, e.g. tours and track days, than on getting a really high spec car. Caterham Academy cars are very low in spec but still gear fun to drive.
Edited by Matt W on Sunday 3rd July 19:23
Well, I've got an SV (I'm 6' 6")
150BHP Sigma
5 Speed Box
Caterham RE Bag
SBFS Tunnel Bag (for maps etc)
SBFS Draught reducer and pouch
Half Hood (Both SBFS and an Oxted one) - driving with the full hood on is (A) Loud and (B) Warm esp if you get stuck in traffic
Autocom Driver/Passenger comms kit (lives in SBFS pouch)
Master Switch
Power Outlet for SatNav/Phone Charging etc etc
4pt Quick Release Harnesses
I went for the Sigma because of the "issues" surrounding the K Series - the Caterham Sales chap even said "Oh no issues with the K series in a Caterham, it's installed the 'right' way round". I know there are lots of Pro's for the K, but there were several threads on BlatChat (owners club forum) when I was looking at the 7 (in 2010) and there have been a some since. I haven't (touch wood) seen any Head Gasket issues on "standard" Sigma's and Duratec's.
The one thing I will say is that the Standard plastic and ali radiators are not that "hot" (oxy moron if ever there was one) and I now have a R400 all Ali jobbie in mine now. My 7 is an ex hire car and in the 23,000 miles before I got it (it's well used
) it had 3 replacements. I had it 9 months before I had it upgraded when it leaked (lots).
Mike
150BHP Sigma
5 Speed Box
Caterham RE Bag
SBFS Tunnel Bag (for maps etc)
SBFS Draught reducer and pouch
Half Hood (Both SBFS and an Oxted one) - driving with the full hood on is (A) Loud and (B) Warm esp if you get stuck in traffic
Autocom Driver/Passenger comms kit (lives in SBFS pouch)
Master Switch
Power Outlet for SatNav/Phone Charging etc etc
4pt Quick Release Harnesses
I went for the Sigma because of the "issues" surrounding the K Series - the Caterham Sales chap even said "Oh no issues with the K series in a Caterham, it's installed the 'right' way round". I know there are lots of Pro's for the K, but there were several threads on BlatChat (owners club forum) when I was looking at the 7 (in 2010) and there have been a some since. I haven't (touch wood) seen any Head Gasket issues on "standard" Sigma's and Duratec's.
The one thing I will say is that the Standard plastic and ali radiators are not that "hot" (oxy moron if ever there was one) and I now have a R400 all Ali jobbie in mine now. My 7 is an ex hire car and in the 23,000 miles before I got it (it's well used
) it had 3 replacements. I had it 9 months before I had it upgraded when it leaked (lots).Mike
Edited by michaeljclark on Sunday 3rd July 19:34
I'd tend to agree with what has gone before.
One thing you ought to know, I have heard of someone who had built their own CSR, so if you ask they may let you.
K series is apparently great to drive, but I went for the Sigma, because it definitely has a better reputation for reliability, hasn't been lying around in a crate for years (like all K series must have) and in 125 form it is torquey and goes very well with the 5 speed box.
If you can fit in the series 3 go for it, and save some weight and a lot of money-spend that on the engine
I found the leather seats agony, and bought Tillets, but you have to try before you buy.
The race harness is much easier to use than the road ones.
Have fun
One thing you ought to know, I have heard of someone who had built their own CSR, so if you ask they may let you.
K series is apparently great to drive, but I went for the Sigma, because it definitely has a better reputation for reliability, hasn't been lying around in a crate for years (like all K series must have) and in 125 form it is torquey and goes very well with the 5 speed box.
If you can fit in the series 3 go for it, and save some weight and a lot of money-spend that on the engine
I found the leather seats agony, and bought Tillets, but you have to try before you buy.
The race harness is much easier to use than the road ones.
Have fun
The duratec is much better if you want more power certainly, and the six speed is great for blats and the track.
However, as the proposed use is touring, the five speed would be great with the 175bhp duratec and be better for fuel consumption/cruising revs and help the touring range.
Aslo, the average person deciding between K series Classic and Sigma Roadsport, is unlikely to have the budget to go for a Superlight R300, and then add the necessary weather gear/screen and paint options. The car would be 50% more than the original budget.
Duratec Roadsport 175 would seem the more obvious option if more power is needed.
However, as the proposed use is touring, the five speed would be great with the 175bhp duratec and be better for fuel consumption/cruising revs and help the touring range.
Aslo, the average person deciding between K series Classic and Sigma Roadsport, is unlikely to have the budget to go for a Superlight R300, and then add the necessary weather gear/screen and paint options. The car would be 50% more than the original budget.
Duratec Roadsport 175 would seem the more obvious option if more power is needed.
Hi,
Took delivery of 150 Sigma Roadsport in Jan 11 & am still getting the feel of it. I've got a normal S3 with 5 sp box, no LSD, leather seats, hood, heater & 14" wheels with the supplied Avon tyres. I spend most of my time driving round the Beacons (only 20 miles away). Not too fussed about track work.
For what it's worth I seem to spend most of my time in 3rd or 4th only using 5th in transit on the boring bits, the 150 is a bit lumpy at low rpm or in traffic but has sufficient oomph on the open road. In retrospect I would now go more for the Duratec - although it adds £5K. Haven't missed a LSD but supect this is more down to confidence & ability. I find the leather seats OK for about 5 hours but any passengers whinge after about 2 - has been corrected by a selection of floral cushions.
The heater works well & has been useful in both winter & as an extra 'radiator' when stuck in traffic. I had the road harness but this got dumped ASAP for some 4 point race ones. It was too much of a potch to adjust. If you go for the Roadsport I'd budget for replacing the Avons - can be a touch unpredictable esp in the wet.
As regards the wet, I used the hood only once when driving back from the collection. It's awkward, very noisy and very hot - esp when you can't get to the heater control! Now use half hood only.
A power socket is useful for a battery conditioner in lay ups.
Hope this is helpful.
Took delivery of 150 Sigma Roadsport in Jan 11 & am still getting the feel of it. I've got a normal S3 with 5 sp box, no LSD, leather seats, hood, heater & 14" wheels with the supplied Avon tyres. I spend most of my time driving round the Beacons (only 20 miles away). Not too fussed about track work.
For what it's worth I seem to spend most of my time in 3rd or 4th only using 5th in transit on the boring bits, the 150 is a bit lumpy at low rpm or in traffic but has sufficient oomph on the open road. In retrospect I would now go more for the Duratec - although it adds £5K. Haven't missed a LSD but supect this is more down to confidence & ability. I find the leather seats OK for about 5 hours but any passengers whinge after about 2 - has been corrected by a selection of floral cushions.
The heater works well & has been useful in both winter & as an extra 'radiator' when stuck in traffic. I had the road harness but this got dumped ASAP for some 4 point race ones. It was too much of a potch to adjust. If you go for the Roadsport I'd budget for replacing the Avons - can be a touch unpredictable esp in the wet.
As regards the wet, I used the hood only once when driving back from the collection. It's awkward, very noisy and very hot - esp when you can't get to the heater control! Now use half hood only.
A power socket is useful for a battery conditioner in lay ups.
Hope this is helpful.
Go to your local 7 club area meeting and pick peoples brains and look at their cars.
A few bits of advice:-
1. Dump the standard Avon tyres as soon as you can - they have poor grip and changing to something like Yoko AO21Rs (a great all round tyre) will transform the car.
2. Caterham seem to charge as much for upgrades as it does to buy items outright. In other words they make little or no allowance for the standard items you are replacing. Therefore you may be better off going for a low spec. and adding things afterwards. e.g. Go with standard seat belts and change to race belts afterwards - it will cost you no more. You can even save money by buying alternative aftermarket items e.g. Sabelt.
3. Get an FIA roll bar. Safer and more desirable making car easier to sell in due course. Also much better for use with SBFS half hood, which is what you want rather than a full hood.
Good luck.
A few bits of advice:-
1. Dump the standard Avon tyres as soon as you can - they have poor grip and changing to something like Yoko AO21Rs (a great all round tyre) will transform the car.
2. Caterham seem to charge as much for upgrades as it does to buy items outright. In other words they make little or no allowance for the standard items you are replacing. Therefore you may be better off going for a low spec. and adding things afterwards. e.g. Go with standard seat belts and change to race belts afterwards - it will cost you no more. You can even save money by buying alternative aftermarket items e.g. Sabelt.
3. Get an FIA roll bar. Safer and more desirable making car easier to sell in due course. Also much better for use with SBFS half hood, which is what you want rather than a full hood.
Good luck.
Depends how much touring - but other "extras" to consider:-
intercom
soft bits hood - so much better than the official one
map pockets
The 6 speed is a bit painful for touring...(I drove mine round europe for 10 days, so it is doable)
as far as I know the 5th gear in the 5 speeder is longer/taller than 6th in the 6 speed box.
Caterham emphasise quite strongly that you only use 1-4 gears in the 5 speeder when "pressing on" and then drop into 5th for cruising.
Some things, like the intercom, may seem a bit random/unesscessary when you first start, but then you may quickly realise it would be really handy (or not! depends how much you want to speak to the passenger!)
So i'd leave a little room in the budget for "extras".
You'll probably regret not getting an LSD if you go anywhere near a track, but otherwise you won't care (probably)
intercom
soft bits hood - so much better than the official one
map pockets
The 6 speed is a bit painful for touring...(I drove mine round europe for 10 days, so it is doable)
as far as I know the 5th gear in the 5 speeder is longer/taller than 6th in the 6 speed box.
Caterham emphasise quite strongly that you only use 1-4 gears in the 5 speeder when "pressing on" and then drop into 5th for cruising.
Some things, like the intercom, may seem a bit random/unesscessary when you first start, but then you may quickly realise it would be really handy (or not! depends how much you want to speak to the passenger!)
So i'd leave a little room in the budget for "extras".
You'll probably regret not getting an LSD if you go anywhere near a track, but otherwise you won't care (probably)
Re. 5 / 6 speed - isn't 6th in the 6 speed the same as 4th in the 5? I'm one of the 6 speed box's advocates, but IMO for touring the 5 is better - our Roadsport revs much les hard at 70 ish in 5th than the R300 did at the same speed.
IMO essential options:
Wide track.
Big brakes.
LSD.
13" wheels.
Adjustable suspension height / ARB front and rear.
Heater.
Full weather gear.
Those inner door clips that are long and L shped, rather than straps (keeps right arm dry).
Paint (inc. groovy stripe / noseband / other as you see fit).
I find tillets more comfortable, but others prefer leather. Tillets can be cold on your back in spring though.
Some love lowered floors, I don't like em at all (better head height, but you bang your left arm on the transmission tunnel every bloomin' grarchange).
Ultimately though, whatever you get you'll have a ball in, all we ask is a build thread, they're always great fun =)
IMO essential options:
Wide track.
Big brakes.
LSD.
13" wheels.
Adjustable suspension height / ARB front and rear.
Heater.
Full weather gear.
Those inner door clips that are long and L shped, rather than straps (keeps right arm dry).
Paint (inc. groovy stripe / noseband / other as you see fit).
I find tillets more comfortable, but others prefer leather. Tillets can be cold on your back in spring though.
Some love lowered floors, I don't like em at all (better head height, but you bang your left arm on the transmission tunnel every bloomin' grarchange).
Ultimately though, whatever you get you'll have a ball in, all we ask is a build thread, they're always great fun =)
SWMBO bought a 59 reg ex Academy car, so far we've:-
removed Full cage fitted a standard rollbar
Swopped the orrible tillets for very comfy Leather seats
Fitted standard Lap diagonals instead of the very uncomfortable Harnesses
And binned the fitted Fire extinguisher.
>
So if we specced a new'un
we'd want:-
Leather seats
Removable Steering wheel
Standard seat belts
We wouldn't bother with fancy/expensive paint job
Would definitely want a spare wheel carrier
Lowered floors
5 speed box - great for motorways
Standard 2 litre Zetec/Duratec engine
13" wheels
12volt power socket under dash
Full tonneau
SBFS 1/2 hood
Larger Petrol Tank
We use our car for touring/days out, so if you want a trackcar obviously spec would vary.
hope this helps
Mal
removed Full cage fitted a standard rollbar
Swopped the orrible tillets for very comfy Leather seats
Fitted standard Lap diagonals instead of the very uncomfortable Harnesses
And binned the fitted Fire extinguisher.
>
So if we specced a new'un
we'd want:-
Leather seats
Removable Steering wheel
Standard seat belts
We wouldn't bother with fancy/expensive paint job
Would definitely want a spare wheel carrier
Lowered floors
5 speed box - great for motorways
Standard 2 litre Zetec/Duratec engine
13" wheels
12volt power socket under dash
Full tonneau
SBFS 1/2 hood
Larger Petrol Tank
We use our car for touring/days out, so if you want a trackcar obviously spec would vary.
hope this helps
Mal
Just out of interest, being an advocate of the 6 speed box versus the 5 speeder, what actually are the advantages for touring?
A 7 is not a quiet car for touring anyway. If you value your hearing, you need ear protection. So to me that does away with a noise argument.
That leaves revs. I can't see it being a problem if the engine is revving 10% higher at motorway speeds or others.
I did a lot of 7 miles with a 5 speeder, but once I tried the 6, I couldn't go back!
BErt
A 7 is not a quiet car for touring anyway. If you value your hearing, you need ear protection. So to me that does away with a noise argument.
That leaves revs. I can't see it being a problem if the engine is revving 10% higher at motorway speeds or others.
I did a lot of 7 miles with a 5 speeder, but once I tried the 6, I couldn't go back!
BErt
Bertybert
the 6 speed has direct top 1:1
5 speed has overdrive top ~0.85:1 which makes touring more relaxing and gives betterMPG
I agree for track 6speed maybe better but in a light car 4 speeds are ample for giving it some beans especially if like me you have a high 1st gear good for 50Mph or so, the next 3 ratios are also closer and in my case take me well above the legal limit[or 120mph in my case], so in effect why do you need an additonal 2 gears to achieve the same result, which is what you'd have with the 6 speed.
Just my 2 pennath
I'm sure others are foaming at the mouth as you read this
and so will dis agree.
If you tour the standard or high 1st geear is the one to have IMO, which is what the OP requested info on
you also save ~£2000 or so by having the standard 5 speed box over the expensive 6speed.
the 6 speed has direct top 1:1
5 speed has overdrive top ~0.85:1 which makes touring more relaxing and gives betterMPG
I agree for track 6speed maybe better but in a light car 4 speeds are ample for giving it some beans especially if like me you have a high 1st gear good for 50Mph or so, the next 3 ratios are also closer and in my case take me well above the legal limit[or 120mph in my case], so in effect why do you need an additonal 2 gears to achieve the same result, which is what you'd have with the 6 speed.
Just my 2 pennath
I'm sure others are foaming at the mouth as you read this
and so will dis agree.
If you tour the standard or high 1st geear is the one to have IMO, which is what the OP requested info on
you also save ~£2000 or so by having the standard 5 speed box over the expensive 6speed.
Edited by S47 on Monday 4th July 15:05
Thanks for the great response, all valid and helpful.
Budget being what it is, it is beginning to look like a Roadsport 125 or 150. I reserve judgement on the value of the SV until I have another look.
Gearbox - not sure, sounds like the 5 speed is ok as long as you don't try the 6 speed first... It is quite a big extra cost, and I am still tempted by the LSD.
Feedback on the full hood is really helpful; I was going to get one, but will now skip this and consider the half hood instead. Seats seem to be a personal choice, so will have to wait and see. Power socket and spare wheel are definitely on the list.
What is the FIA roll-over bar (is it the 'track day roll-over bar'?), and what is the difference?
I will keep a build diary - not sure yet how I will make it available, but the build is the start of the fun, and I will keep a record.
Thanks again!
Budget being what it is, it is beginning to look like a Roadsport 125 or 150. I reserve judgement on the value of the SV until I have another look.
Gearbox - not sure, sounds like the 5 speed is ok as long as you don't try the 6 speed first... It is quite a big extra cost, and I am still tempted by the LSD.
Feedback on the full hood is really helpful; I was going to get one, but will now skip this and consider the half hood instead. Seats seem to be a personal choice, so will have to wait and see. Power socket and spare wheel are definitely on the list.
What is the FIA roll-over bar (is it the 'track day roll-over bar'?), and what is the difference?
I will keep a build diary - not sure yet how I will make it available, but the build is the start of the fun, and I will keep a record.
Thanks again!
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