Corvette 69 ish

[drivin_me_nuts]

Many thoughts have been going through my mind these last few weeks and one of these is buying a 69-72 convertible. I have to say, for many a reason they seem to be the car I have a hankering after.

Before I go off and splurge money on something that I want, I have a few practical questions that need addressing. One of them, more than anything else is, is it a viable car to keep outside in all weathers. I don't have the luxury of a garage and TBO i'm not really interested in a 'trailer queen', something practical I can use on a regular basis and enjoy thus.

Also can someone please point me in the direction of more information on the various models, the what to look for guides etc. Before I commit myself, I want to have a far better understanding (the addictive bit aside!) what I am letting myself in for.

Thanks.

[Bowler]

DMN

You need to post this request on the Corvette Club Forum, as there are a bucket load of people there who have loads of detailed knowledge on the C3 Corvette

BTW, I know of a fully restored '72 that is for sale. If you are interested, PM and I'll try and put the 2 of you together

Best of Luck!

[scovette]

Had a 76 as a daily driver for a few years - the more use use them the better they become. Unless you're set on a convertible it's perhaps worth considering the coupés as well - with the t-tops off you can still have open-top motoring with a bit less scuttle shake.

Watch for rust around the windscreen frame & birdcage: have a look at http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-general/2076877...
There's a maintenance guide available at http://www.corvette-corner.de/C3-%20Rep-Handbuch-e...

I would drive as many as possible to get feeling for a good one - been in a few cars that look spectacular but drive rather less well. There are various steering and suspension upgrades that can transform the car.

If you're anywhere near Norfolk it would be worth going to visit Corvette Kingdom. (They built my car.)

[VetteG]

Have a look on the Corvette Forum for sale section, there is a really nice 72 convertable for sale for £15k.
The big enemy is rust in the chassis and birdcage, engines, gearboxes etc are pretty unbreakable although if you are not going to garage it I would suggest you go for a coupe with T tops, it will make it a bit more secure.

G

[drivin_me_nuts]

Thanks for the replies. I have been looking long and hard at cars both here and back in the US. Both C3 and C2 (and even C1's) were really up for consideration.

There are practical things to consider - for example, importing a car from the US pretty much means the price you pay in dollars is the price you pay in sterling - by th etime you pay duties etc. That said, the availability of cars in the US (for obvious reasons) is much higher.

Truth be said, what I am looking for is a C2 or C3 with something modern under the hood. So I was thinking of going down the LSx route, along with upgraded chassis and brakes.. which leads me to the other thought, buy already converted, or buy cheaper and convert here (here as in UK). I've got a good idea of what I want on the market in the US and they are around the 90k mark. Choices choices. It would be good to get the thoughts of someone objective and someone with a lot of experience in this area to talk these things through with.

I have my eyes wide open and it will be a very cinsdered purchase. (but TBO, I don't think I can live without that corvette 'sound' for many more months!)

[Bowler]

drivin_me_nuts said:

There are practical things to consider - for example, importing a car from the US pretty much means the price you pay in dollars is the price you pay in sterling - by the time you pay duties etc.

Your reseach is accurate. It does work out roughly as $1 = £1 by the time it's landed here and cleared all of the customs

My only other comment about this, is whether you are prepared to factor in the costs of viewing before buying, unless you are prepared to buy unseen which is a major gamble. Alternatively, I know of one Corvette Club member who imported a C2 last year (unseen) but paid a US based company to assess condition and issue a (massive) report (inc 200+ pictures). He spoke very highly of this service, and IIRC it was less that the cost of a flight

drivin_me_nuts said:

Truth be said, what I am looking for is a C2 or C3 with something modern under the hood. So I was thinking of going down the LSx route, along with upgraded chassis and brakes.. which leads me to the other thought, buy already converted, or buy cheaper and convert here (here as in UK).

I have been to 3 CCCUK Nationals and only recall ever seeing one or two early models on modern running gear and an LS engine. They are seriously rare over here

drivin_me_nuts said:

I've got a good idea of what I want on the market in the US and they are around the 90k mark. Choices choices. It would be good to get the thoughts of someone objective and someone with a lot of experience in this area to talk these things through with.

If you are contemplating an outlay of this size, then you can get virtually anything done to your own specification over here, including a full body off restoration.

You could try any one of these that may help with your quest

Dart Corvette (Tonbridge, Kent)
Custom Exotics (Harlow, Essex)
Corvette Kingdom (Norwich area)

drivin_me_nuts said:

TBO, I don't think I can live without that corvette 'sound' for many more months!

Welcome to the dilemma that 90% of us go through!


ETA: If you can hold your breath for a few months you could pop along to the Corvette Nationals at Huntingdon Rarecourse at the begiining of July. Typically there are around 75 C3s of all ages there each year (plus around 10 to 15 C1s C2s combined) and talk to people. Owners are more than happy to share experiences of ownership/maintenance. I know that you are on the South Coast, but I would personally recommend you do this.

Edited by Bowler on Tuesday 1st February 18:58

[scovette]

The problem with getting a SRIII chassis or similar & a LSx is that the car can't legally be put on the road as there's no way it can pass the IVA. Even if it comes with an old Corvette title from the States (some do, some don't) and so it gets registered and insured here as a Vette, you'd be in bother if you ever had a crash as your insurance would be invalid.

A SRIII car with C4 suspension is a delight to drive, though very different to a classic Vette. There's one locally that's going back to the US soon (if it's not already gone.) I could find out if the owner would be willing to give you a drive if it's still around?

My car has a C3 chassis (C3 & C2 chassis is effectively the same) with Steeroids, smart struts & adjustable shocks. I'm near Silverstone so if you're ever up here for a race weekend you're welcome to have a go.

VetteG's car also has hydroboost braking & other developments - link to his website is in his profile. (Hope you don't mind the plug )

Edited by scovette on Tuesday 1st February 19:22

[drivin_me_nuts]

scovette said:

The problem with getting a SRIII chassis or similar & a LSx is that the car can't legally be put on the road as there's no way it can pass the IVA. Even if it comes with an old Corvette title from the States (some do, some don't) and so it gets registered and insured here as a Vette, you'd be in bother if you ever had a crash as your insurance would be invalid.

A SRIII car with C4 suspension is a delight to drive, though very different to a classic Vette. There's one locally that's going back to the US soon (if it's not already gone.) I could find out if the owner would be willing to give you a drive if it's still around?

My car has a C3 chassis (C3 & C2 chassis is effectively the same) with Steeroids, smart struts & adjustable shocks. I'm near Silverstone so if you're ever up here for a race weekend you're welcome to have a go.

VetteG's car also has hydroboost braking & other developments - link to his website is in his profile. (Hope you don't mind the plug )

Edited by scovette on Tuesday 1st February 19:22

Thanks for the reply. I'm clearly showing my ignorance here by asking what must be an incredibly naive question - why would it not pass the IVA?

It is something that I had been fully aware of and certainly the last thing I would want is to buy something modified from abroad only to find that I cannot use it legally in the UK.

Edit: The IVA basis and normal tests make interesting late nite reading. From what I understand.. unless i'm completely mistaken, a car with a new/revised chassis and a new engine would need to be IVA'd. I can see that this in itself would/could add a great deal to the cost of even getting a restomod on the road. So it begs the question.. how do these chaps with LSx converted C1's get their cars legal. Is it that they keep the chassis standard (yikes) or is it that they have cars converted before the April 2009 start point.. or more likely something that I have completely missed!

I'm finding this whole thing fascinating - it makes a very satisfying 'project' after the last few months!

Edited by drivin_me_nuts on Wednesday 2nd February 00:37

[scovette]

You would need to change so much to pass that it would be unrecognisable (and would cost £££). Eg there's various rules about passenger safety, so you'd need new switchgear and steering wheel. Also some of the exterior won't pass due to external radius of parts, eg hood pins. And lights, glass, and lots of other bits. Theoretically it's possible, but it would bear about as much resemblance to a Corvette as a dodgy Cobra replica does to the real thing.

I looked into it when my car was built - that's why my car still has a Corvette chassis - it has enough original parts to still be considered a Corvette and thus doesn't need to go through an SVA (as it was then). The car in my previous post with the SRIII chassis is a Grand Sport replica - it's going back to the US as it can't get through.

I think you might be able to avoid the test if you leave the original engine and just change the chassis & rear axle - been ages since I looked at this though. Personally though I would just upgrade an car with an original chassis and avoid the hassle. And as your doing something out of the ordinary definitely get it built over here - much easier to get it sorted when the inevitable problems crop up.

drivin_me_nuts said:

So it begs the question.. how do these chaps with LSx converted C1's get their cars legal. Is it that they keep the chassis standard (yikes) or is it that they have cars converted before the April 2009 start point.. or more likely something that I have completely missed

There were rules in place even before 2009 - they'll be an original chassis with suspension upgrades from Art Morrison, or like myself and VetteG have. You might be surprised how well these old cars can be made to handle

Edited by scovette on Wednesday 2nd February 00:56

Edited by scovette on Wednesday 2nd February 00:57

[drivin_me_nuts]

Thanks for replying so promptly.

Is it fair to say then that the most sensible thing to do would be to take the original car, upgrade (not quite sure how this is different to modify!) the relevant bits, keep the engine the same (though modify if desired?) and that would be enough (probably for me anyway) to make something practical and suitable as a semi daily driver and not go through the angst of the IVA

(Still want the sidepipes though!)

[scovette]

You could still get an LSx though?

[Z06George]

scovette said:

You might be surprised how well these old cars can be made to handle

I can vouch for this after being very lucky to have a ride in your car through Sporting Bears.

[VetteG]

Hi there, as Scovette says they can be made to handle very well, I have surprised many on the road on our twisty Scottish roads. I regularly go out with a crowd including TVR's, Lamborgini's and Ferrari's for a bit of 'enthusiastic' driving and have no problem in keeping pace with them. Rack & pinion steering at the front and Smart Struts on the back are the the first mods to a stock chassis. Of course you suspension has to be in good condition as well. I have semi coil over double adjustable alloy shocks, alloy 'A' frames with revised pick up points and an 1 1/4" ant-roll bar on the front with Spax adjustables and a composite rear spring on the rear (no anti-roll bar). The biggest improvement to the handling on mine though was the change to 18" wheels and Pirelli P Zero tyres. It now has a very positive turn in and a high level of grip all round. The downside is rear tyres that last 5k miles at £300 a pop!

G

[drivin_me_nuts]

.. I've just had a look at your gallery. What a beautiful car. That must have been a real labour of love (and labour of the wallet as well I guess!) and the results looks fabulous

[VetteG]

drivin_me_nuts said:

.. I've just had a look at your gallery. What a beautiful car. That must have been a real labour of love (and labour of the wallet as well I guess!) and the results looks fabulous

Your very kind. It was a lot of work, but most of the credit must go to Scott and his team at Corvette Kingdom who did the chassis up rebuild.

G

[roscobbc]

VetteG said:

Hi there, as Scovette says they can be made to handle very well, I have surprised many on the road on our twisty Scottish roads. I regularly go out with a crowd including TVR's, Lamborgini's and Ferrari's for a bit of 'enthusiastic' driving and have no problem in keeping pace with them. Rack & pinion steering at the front and Smart Struts on the back are the the first mods to a stock chassis. Of course you suspension has to be in good condition as well. I have semi coil over double adjustable alloy shocks, alloy 'A' frames with revised pick up points and an 1 1/4" ant-roll bar on the front with Spax adjustables and a composite rear spring on the rear (no anti-roll bar). The biggest improvement to the handling on mine though was the change to 18" wheels and Pirelli P Zero tyres. It now has a very positive turn in and a high level of grip all round. The downside is rear tyres that last 5k miles at £300 a pop!

G

I can agree with VetteG re. 18" wheels and tyres - mine already had 'Slalom' suspension option so was a little bit better in terms of spring and dampers and closer (compare with stock suspension)to what we would expect in a european car. As VetteG says the 18's TOTALLY transform handling and the way things are going with new tyre regulations pending larger wheel/tyre options may be the only way forward if you want 'performance' tyres on any car!. I have not (as yet) made any other changes to the suspension on my '68 - as yes the power steering is a bit dead in terms of feeling and even though most people praise the stock brakes on Vettes I am not happy and with over 500 bhp and ft/lbs of torque I find them marginal. My thoughts - pull the stock engine and replace with a fully rebuilt efi injected STROKER small block - there are plenty of people here that will build-up an engine/tranmission combination that will be perfect for your application which could actually be quite economical (in a relative way) to use. My 489 cu in engine will squeeze 16 mpg on a run - you can add 4 or 5 mpg for a sensibly built stroker small block - add quality efi and get another 4 or 5 mpg to respective cruise figures.

[drivin_me_nuts]

Thanks... something else to think about. One other question, in terms of reliability and practicability, of course it's an old car, but compared to the flakeyness of BL type cars of the same era, how do your cars shack up?

Edit: I was also looking at the CCUK site earlier today - I guess it would be OK just to wander along to the next gathering and ask people a few questions - it's being held not too far away from me.

Edited by drivin_me_nuts on Thursday 3rd February 12:40

[VetteG]

Perfectly OK to pop along to the next meet, but I would get in touch with the local regional rep first so he can look out for you and do some intros.
A good 68 - 72 is a lot more reliable than a typical BL from that period, all the mechanicals are super strong, the electrics are straightforward once you get to know them, the vacuum system can have you pulling your hair looking for small leaks but that wouldnt be serious. You can get every part for them plus some nice aftermarket stuff. Lots of guys do long continental tours in them, I happily will drive from Edinburgh to London and back in mine and have done not to mention driving to Spa and the Nurburgring.

G

[scovette]

My 76 broke down twice over 30000+ miles : one was due to an old bodge job on the electrics, the other was due to a coolant hose splitting.

As VetteG says, the only "unusual" feature is the vacuum system that amongst other things operates the pop-up headlights. Or if you get a 68 the fibreoptics can apparently be a pain. I get 25mpg on a sensible motorway cruise. (430hp carbed 350ci)

Z06George said:

I can vouch for this after being very lucky to have a ride in your car through Sporting Bears.

Got about 6 mpg though that day!

[drivin_me_nuts]

Right.. I'll make a date in the diary and will contact the local rep. I look forward to it. I'd rather do it this way by spending time talking to people and understanding more rather than go out and buy something now that I might regret later.

(Though I have to say, the idea of of a black 71 convertilble with a burgandy leather interior and some subtle modern engine mods is very very appealing).

I'd love it with sidepipes, but I don't hear good things about the build quality of them.