How Corvette and Cadillac should have been sold in the UK..
Discussion
Back In 2004 When Cadillac and Corvette were relaunced again in the UK, Nobody outside the American car scene even knew it was here! This time they did have more RHD cars for sale by 07 they were selling BLS,CTS,STS and SRX all in UK spec Right hand drive and then Hummer H3's, Corvette was always going to be LHD,
But 2 years on never seen a huge billboard advert or full page advert in the newspapers only the odd Startstone PCP adverts in top marques.
Well today I have seen a huge billboard on the M25 for the new Infiniti brand that is owned by Nissan already a player in the USA and they seem very American looking they also have no Diesel cars in the range yet for sale, But I bet they will do better with sale in the UK than Caddy and Corvette has done,
The question is why can they do it right and GM never did? Stright away adverts poping up and they only have one dealership!
Can't blame Stratstones for everything, The General should have really got it right this time round because they had good products to sell. They just needed to tell people......
Infiniti has finally arrived in the UK with plans to shake up the premium segment by providing VIP standards of customer service.
AM first revealed in 2004 that Nissan’s premium sister brand would be coming to the UK by the end of the decade.
Having launched in Spain, France and Italy last year, Infiniti’s first UK centre opened at Reading last month.
It will be operated by Rymco UK, a newly created dealer group. Mana Premiere Holdings UK, another new start-up, will be Infiniti’s second retail partner.
Both Rymco and Mana have been created by automotive retail businesses in Lebanon and Qatar respectively. Their creation followed an unsuccessful search by Infiniti for existing UK-based dealers.
Rymco’s and Mana’s parent companies, Rasamny Younis Motor Company SAL and Al Mana International Holdings, are both long-serving champions of Nissan and Infiniti.
Angus Gray, Infiniti regional director, North Europe, said: “The UK is the biggest market for us in Europe. The way they both sell Infiniti shows they completely understand the brand.”
Infiniti is keen to distinguish itself from Nissan. While it is very proud of Nissan, said Gray, everything front of house is Infiniti.
“It’s a new brand, and we don’t want to blur the lines of the brand values by the alliance being too close.”
Behind the scenes, the brand will use Nissan systems and infrastructure for parts logistics, back-of-house and vehicle delivery.
Infiniti has supported the UK dealer launch financially, but Gray declined to say by how much.
“This is our cost to get the brand positioned how we want it positioned. We’ve got one chance to do this and
this is a cost we’re happy to be involved with.
“How Reading is perceived and future sites affects how Infiniti is perceived forever. We want to have the right partner, facilities and location.”
Thirteen showrooms in the UK
Thirteen UK sites are planned by 2013. Rymco will run three of the bigger sites – Reading and two in or around London.
Mana will open 10 locations, including Glasgow, Southport, Birmingham, Leeds and south London.
Openings have been delayed due to difficulties in finding suitable properties on arterial routes.
But Gray expects major sites to be open by the end of 2011, with a few smaller ones opening the following year.
Dealerships ideally will be in proximity of the brand’s competitors – Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, Audi, Porsche and BMW.
Rymco and Mana are expected to break even within two years, according to Gray.
UK annual registrations should hit about 8,000 units by 2013 with the biggest sellers expected to be G37 convertible, G37 Coupé and FX50 crossover.
Fleet sales will make up more than a third of all cars sold.
But 2 years on never seen a huge billboard advert or full page advert in the newspapers only the odd Startstone PCP adverts in top marques.
Well today I have seen a huge billboard on the M25 for the new Infiniti brand that is owned by Nissan already a player in the USA and they seem very American looking they also have no Diesel cars in the range yet for sale, But I bet they will do better with sale in the UK than Caddy and Corvette has done,
The question is why can they do it right and GM never did? Stright away adverts poping up and they only have one dealership!
Can't blame Stratstones for everything, The General should have really got it right this time round because they had good products to sell. They just needed to tell people......
Infiniti has finally arrived in the UK with plans to shake up the premium segment by providing VIP standards of customer service.
AM first revealed in 2004 that Nissan’s premium sister brand would be coming to the UK by the end of the decade.
Having launched in Spain, France and Italy last year, Infiniti’s first UK centre opened at Reading last month.
It will be operated by Rymco UK, a newly created dealer group. Mana Premiere Holdings UK, another new start-up, will be Infiniti’s second retail partner.
Both Rymco and Mana have been created by automotive retail businesses in Lebanon and Qatar respectively. Their creation followed an unsuccessful search by Infiniti for existing UK-based dealers.
Rymco’s and Mana’s parent companies, Rasamny Younis Motor Company SAL and Al Mana International Holdings, are both long-serving champions of Nissan and Infiniti.
Angus Gray, Infiniti regional director, North Europe, said: “The UK is the biggest market for us in Europe. The way they both sell Infiniti shows they completely understand the brand.”
Infiniti is keen to distinguish itself from Nissan. While it is very proud of Nissan, said Gray, everything front of house is Infiniti.
“It’s a new brand, and we don’t want to blur the lines of the brand values by the alliance being too close.”
Behind the scenes, the brand will use Nissan systems and infrastructure for parts logistics, back-of-house and vehicle delivery.
Infiniti has supported the UK dealer launch financially, but Gray declined to say by how much.
“This is our cost to get the brand positioned how we want it positioned. We’ve got one chance to do this and
this is a cost we’re happy to be involved with.
“How Reading is perceived and future sites affects how Infiniti is perceived forever. We want to have the right partner, facilities and location.”
Thirteen showrooms in the UK
Thirteen UK sites are planned by 2013. Rymco will run three of the bigger sites – Reading and two in or around London.
Mana will open 10 locations, including Glasgow, Southport, Birmingham, Leeds and south London.
Openings have been delayed due to difficulties in finding suitable properties on arterial routes.
But Gray expects major sites to be open by the end of 2011, with a few smaller ones opening the following year.
Dealerships ideally will be in proximity of the brand’s competitors – Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, Audi, Porsche and BMW.
Rymco and Mana are expected to break even within two years, according to Gray.
UK annual registrations should hit about 8,000 units by 2013 with the biggest sellers expected to be G37 convertible, G37 Coupé and FX50 crossover.
Fleet sales will make up more than a third of all cars sold.
The answer to why these things fail I am sure is the seemingly 'in-built' British mentality with regards to 'investing' in something like the Cadillac brand. Age old in-bred discrimination against anything from over the pond being 'ever so slightly tacky' and 'not so British old boy' - dealers getting envolved but not really bothered too much because they know the brand is going to fail. In a perverse way they all want things to fail (only after making a little money out of GM of course!) so, so hypocritical when you look at some of the fugly things comming out of Japan and the AH general public and company car users buying into them. I draw a parallel with the current postal dispute - its a big hypocritical front from the management and UK government as they give lip service to 'talks' with the unions, when in reality its an obvious plan to break-up the postal service - simple quick fix - put 10p immediately on the price of a first class stamp - would you pay the extra? I would, to keep the service going and improve it - this wouldn't help unfortunately its all pre-determined! - as are the future of GM's north american brands here!
roscobbc said:
The answer to why these things fail I am sure is the seemingly 'in-built' British mentality with regards to 'investing' in something like the Cadillac brand. Age old in-bred discrimination against anything from over the pond being 'ever so slightly tacky' and 'not so British old boy' - dealers getting envolved but not really bothered too much because they know the brand is going to fail. In a perverse way they all want things to fail (only after making a little money out of GM of course!) so, so hypocritical when you look at some of the fugly things comming out of Japan and the AH general public and company car users buying into them. I draw a parallel with the current postal dispute - its a big hypocritical front from the management and UK government as they give lip service to 'talks' with the unions, when in reality its an obvious plan to break-up the postal service - simple quick fix - put 10p immediately on the price of a first class stamp - would you pay the extra? I would, to keep the service going and improve it - this wouldn't help unfortunately its all pre-determined! - as are the future of GM's north american brands here!
Hmm, politics is always dodgy ground... What's the postal strike got to do with marketing GM cars?! If you do want to talk about Royal Mail, there's no problem with maintaining the service...your 10p would simply preserve the "spanish practices" rife in RMG. Would you pay an extra £20K for a Vette so the assembly workers could skive off early or refuse to use machinery to improve efficiency? Sadly we live in a world where technology replaces people, except in the 3rd world where people are paid peanuts. Back to RMG, the one thing that's guaranteed to break up the postal service is the current round of strikes as it's undermining confidence in RMG and encouraging people to either use other mail/package companies or to use e-mail...just as the one thing that would guarantee the failure of a car manufacturer is to not use technology when all of it's competitors do use it
roscobbc said:
its a big hypocritical front from the management and UK government as they give lip service to 'talks' with the unions, when in reality its an obvious plan to break-up the postal service
They did it over here in the Netherlands, many postal workers lost their jobs, some of which have been there for over 30 years. After that the service went down hill rapidly, and prices went up. Now they only employ temporary personal like housewives looking for a job for a few hours a day. No more professionals delivering your sometimes very important mail, only people who don't seem to care about you mail. The times I had important mail delivered to the wrong address, or even worse, expensive packages left outside on my doorstep, countless times.I hope it will all work out right for you guys, but I'm afraid in a few more years you will be in the same boat as us over here.
Fred
My Gray is trying to market Infiniti as though it is a different car to Nissan. In the States the biggest difference between Infiniti and Nissan is the Dealerships
Smaller, cosier, better coffee and a loaner.
With regard to Corvette, how big is the UK market? and if a UK dealer had 10 on his forecourt would it have the same appeal. Would they have to discount and lose their markup.
Most people in the US do not pay list for a new corvette unless of course they opt for the "pick up from Bowling green" (I've forgotten the real marketting name
)for which they pay a premium.
Same is true for Cadillac but to a much lesser extent.
ETA "pick up from bowling Green" = Museum purchase, temp brain lapse
Smaller, cosier, better coffee and a loaner.With regard to Corvette, how big is the UK market? and if a UK dealer had 10 on his forecourt would it have the same appeal. Would they have to discount and lose their markup.
Most people in the US do not pay list for a new corvette unless of course they opt for the "pick up from Bowling green" (I've forgotten the real marketting name
)for which they pay a premium.Same is true for Cadillac but to a much lesser extent.
ETA "pick up from bowling Green" = Museum purchase, temp brain lapse
Edited by jeff m on Saturday 31st October 13:52
J500ANT said:
FYI the 2004 importing was done via Kroymans
http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:E7mXLXDvWoYJ:...
Thank you C8NL - I was going off topic a bit on a 'rant' - I am not a union person, but I do wonder if the union supporting the postal workers has been 'got at', they certainly don't seem to have very good press or public relations officers cabable of putting themselves over particularly well. http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:E7mXLXDvWoYJ:...
How can GM USA products get anywhere in the UK (or Europe) when the default brand for so many will be BMW, Audi, Mercedes etc, etc and the general public who have been fed on marketing hype from the manufacturers of these vehicles go buy performance VW/Audi (a Bentley GT) - go buy a high quality Beemer (a Rolls Royce) go buy a 'higher' quality Merc (a Maybach) - The demise of the UK motor industry was always going to happen, just like the demise of the USA motor industry will most certainly happen - why? because the buying public believe the advertising hype and its just not 'cool' to buy non-premium European brands. Will be see premium brands from China?
Kroymans were picked to sell CCH products from 2004 and failed, The UK needed different dealerships to sell the products not just Stratstones one way for all makes websites and ads! Kroymans should have gone more for dealers who sell sports and prestige cars but in limited numbers, that's why Bauer Millett can sell the cars because they understand the Market better. GM should have been in on the start and used the Saab network to sell Cadillac and Corvette. Not sure what will happen with the brands in 2010?
Corvette = left-field choice, niche market etc. Probably could have sold more, but, as much as I love mine, it's never going to have wide appeal as an ownership prospect. Most people with the money would rather have a P*****e, they just would.
Cadillacs? Again, the bigger ones I like. However, on the whole the cars were ugly, inferior to many other brands, including GM's more established Euro cars, a step outside the norm (how many people really want that when buying a rep-mobile or a box for their family?), a risk on many fronts - dealer going bust (lol!), servicing network, parts. Cadillac image? And Depreciation with a capital "D".
I agree Stratstones/Kroymans might have done more and if they had they might have sold more, but probably not so many more that you'd see a Cadillac every day?
Infiniti = completely different kettle of ballgames.
Cadillacs? Again, the bigger ones I like. However, on the whole the cars were ugly, inferior to many other brands, including GM's more established Euro cars, a step outside the norm (how many people really want that when buying a rep-mobile or a box for their family?), a risk on many fronts - dealer going bust (lol!), servicing network, parts. Cadillac image? And Depreciation with a capital "D".
I agree Stratstones/Kroymans might have done more and if they had they might have sold more, but probably not so many more that you'd see a Cadillac every day?
Infiniti = completely different kettle of ballgames.
Cadillac / Corvette have perception problems in the UK and biggest barrier to mass market appeal is LHD, especially the Corvette.
GM never understood the European and espcailly the UK market, I remember when they originally launched the C5 in Europe then pulled out only to come back a couple of years later. Doesn't inspire confidence in long-term support.......
GM never understood the European and espcailly the UK market, I remember when they originally launched the C5 in Europe then pulled out only to come back a couple of years later. Doesn't inspire confidence in long-term support.......
To most people, a Cadillac will always be a pimpmobile and the Corvette has a number of perceptual problems, not least the Chevrolet badge, prostituted on the Daewoos and the fact they are made of plastic so will always make the same breath as a TVR and will never be perceived as having the same quality as the Porsche, even though in most cases they handsomely outlast them.
It's hard to see how it could change. Audi had nothing more than an average image at one time but through the use of aluminium and finding a European definitive style and focusing on interior quality, they not only reinvented themselves, they took on BMW and seem to be doing very well.
Turning a brand round and changing perceptions is always going to be difficult. A Skoda may well be a last generation Audi and younger folk may have bought into it as a brand but to me, it will always be a budget brand - which is odd because VW were once "The Beetle" and comprehensively reinvented themselves.
In many ways, it is easier to invent a new marque than try to change the prejudices of an entire car lineage which is doubtless what the Japanese recognised when they launched Lexus and Infiniti and Acura.
To change a perception or prejudice, you need to swamp the territory with cars, as Skoda and Seat did. Youll still be lucky to see a Cadillac in the UK, still less a Corvette.
The final problem with the Corvette is that the whole point of it is Ferrari style with Fiesta running costs - that will always attract a certain type and the type of canny buyer who is not concerned with badge status but rather with individuality at an affordable price. The question is whether, if the Corvette were as common as Porsches, would you still buy one?
I think the main problem is that neither brand has a Unique Selling Point. Maybe if they hand-fabricated the Corvette from aluminium, they would change the perception. maybe if they used a little less American styling on the Cadillac (which I like but most don't), they would profit from the second fastest Nurburgring time for a 4 door sedan. I can't help thinking that if they'd made that Cadillac sixteen, it would have improved their profile.
It's hard to see how it could change. Audi had nothing more than an average image at one time but through the use of aluminium and finding a European definitive style and focusing on interior quality, they not only reinvented themselves, they took on BMW and seem to be doing very well.
Turning a brand round and changing perceptions is always going to be difficult. A Skoda may well be a last generation Audi and younger folk may have bought into it as a brand but to me, it will always be a budget brand - which is odd because VW were once "The Beetle" and comprehensively reinvented themselves.
In many ways, it is easier to invent a new marque than try to change the prejudices of an entire car lineage which is doubtless what the Japanese recognised when they launched Lexus and Infiniti and Acura.
To change a perception or prejudice, you need to swamp the territory with cars, as Skoda and Seat did. Youll still be lucky to see a Cadillac in the UK, still less a Corvette.
The final problem with the Corvette is that the whole point of it is Ferrari style with Fiesta running costs - that will always attract a certain type and the type of canny buyer who is not concerned with badge status but rather with individuality at an affordable price. The question is whether, if the Corvette were as common as Porsches, would you still buy one?
I think the main problem is that neither brand has a Unique Selling Point. Maybe if they hand-fabricated the Corvette from aluminium, they would change the perception. maybe if they used a little less American styling on the Cadillac (which I like but most don't), they would profit from the second fastest Nurburgring time for a 4 door sedan. I can't help thinking that if they'd made that Cadillac sixteen, it would have improved their profile.
Edited by LuS1fer on Tuesday 3rd November 08:58
Totally agree, very well put over.
I think you are also correct in thinking that if there were as many Corvettes driving around as Porsche then I'm sure our interest would wane slightly.
Without trying to drag up the old Stratstone saga up once again, I still maintain that with their dreadful lack of care towards customers, they did single handedly more damage to the franchise than anyone dared care to imagine. GM are just as much to blame. They seemed content to sit back and despite constant evidence from disgruntled customers, appeared to do nothing about it.
I still maintain to this day that if small specialist dealers were used to promote the Corvette brand then it would have stood far better chance than the route GM took through Stratstone. Indeed, I understand this is also the method McLarren are using to promote their new MP4-12C road car.
I think you are also correct in thinking that if there were as many Corvettes driving around as Porsche then I'm sure our interest would wane slightly.
Without trying to drag up the old Stratstone saga up once again, I still maintain that with their dreadful lack of care towards customers, they did single handedly more damage to the franchise than anyone dared care to imagine. GM are just as much to blame. They seemed content to sit back and despite constant evidence from disgruntled customers, appeared to do nothing about it.
I still maintain to this day that if small specialist dealers were used to promote the Corvette brand then it would have stood far better chance than the route GM took through Stratstone. Indeed, I understand this is also the method McLarren are using to promote their new MP4-12C road car.
i think alot of is to do with ignorance its easy to say or label a product or a brand as rubbish on a hear say.how do you know if something is good or bad if you have never been in it or own it.most american cars or atleast the big names have been around for over 100 years infact almost everthing good on a modern luxury car has been invented and put in production by caddilac since 1914 how can a brand like that have an image problem it dosent it only has a problem in the uk due to lack of knowledge.why would i buy a italian or german sports car when i can have a dodge viper or a corvette i would buy them even if the were double the price of a porshe or a lambo.in my opinion and many others like me that have owned or driven whatever is out there the corvette and the viper is far superior not inferior.
Hi Guys,
You know my other "handle" is RGChas, so I dare not comment !
But, if you think Racing Green should sell Vettes, you could always start a campaign !!
However, no matter how much I would enjoy demonstrating and selling
Corvettes, I doubt you will be successful !
Here is why. Racing Green makes sensible money operating service
divisions for Jaguars and TVRs with extensive customer bases.
Corvette annual services cost about £250 plus or minus VAT, depending where you go.
If Stratstone were selling only a handful of Corvettes and Cadillacs per year,
I wonder how much they would have made from servicing ?
So, gentle margin for too few car sales and minimal profit on service.
As Meerkat would say: "Simple.......Not enough to pay overheads.
Stratstones enjoy jacuzzi !"
Best Regards
Chas
You know my other "handle" is RGChas, so I dare not comment !
But, if you think Racing Green should sell Vettes, you could always start a campaign !!
However, no matter how much I would enjoy demonstrating and selling
Corvettes, I doubt you will be successful !
Here is why. Racing Green makes sensible money operating service
divisions for Jaguars and TVRs with extensive customer bases.
Corvette annual services cost about £250 plus or minus VAT, depending where you go.
If Stratstone were selling only a handful of Corvettes and Cadillacs per year,
I wonder how much they would have made from servicing ?
So, gentle margin for too few car sales and minimal profit on service.
As Meerkat would say: "Simple.......Not enough to pay overheads.
Stratstones enjoy jacuzzi !"
Best Regards
Chas
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