Vortech blower install on C6

[ian_uk1975]

What would be a reasonable labour cost to install and map a Vortech blower system with uprated fuel pump on an LS2-engined C6? More to the point, how long should it take? Obviously, the cost will be hours x labour rate.

I've already spoken to RapidGB and Monkfish. Any other lesser-known, but equally-skilled folks out there? Install/map cost in the US runs at around £1k (GBP).

Cheers,
Ian.

Edited by ian_uk1975 on Wednesday 9th April 21:29

[chimtvr]

it took about 3 days to fit my AA Corvette Vortech kit on my C5 then about 4 hours to map it.
Sooooo. i guess about 25 hours in total x Labour rate
good luck its worth it

[ian_uk1975]

chimtvr said:

it took about 3 days to fit my AA Corvette Vortech kit on my C5 then about 4 hours to map it.
Sooooo. i guess about 25 hours in total x Labour rate
good luck its worth it

Sounds about right. Thanks for the info.

I'm considering doing the install myself, but with no garage and only a set of axle stands, it's probably a bridge too far.

Have you put your LS1 on a dyno or a rolling-road? I'm hoping for around 500-ish at the wheels (550 would be nice and still in the 'safe zone' for the cast pistons).

Cheers,
Ian.

[vetteheadracer]

Think of a number and treble it in my experience!

I supercharged my 1996 LT4 which was fine for the first 600 miles then the clutch gave up the unequal struggle with the extra torque. At about 8,000 miles one of the pistons decided to fall apart

[ian_uk1975]

vetteheadracer said:

Think of a number and treble it in my experience!

I supercharged my 1996 LT4 which was fine for the first 600 miles then the clutch gave up the unequal struggle with the extra torque. At about 8,000 miles one of the pistons decided to fall apart

LS2 pistons are reportedly good in boosted apps up to ~550rwhp. In any event, I won't be using boost very often at all; the car is a daily driver and, in normal driving, I never exceed 3k rpm. So, that being said, I'm hoping that it will be 100% reliable with a conservative fuel map for an extra margin of safety. The blower I'll be getting will also be intercooled.

Cheers,
Ian.

[LuS1fer]

In 2005 I paid £500 to install a HO Vortech on my Mustang at www.nsracing.com who are the UK Vortech agents but I did buy the blower from them.

[Boosted LS1]

Which tune will you map it with, EFILive or HP tuners? Are you not able to get a tune from the US flashed into the pcm. That would save you a lot of dyno time but you would have to be confident the 'flash' was correct. I'd be tempted to buy a whole package from the US including the tune. Dyno time is expensive and can take ages and may still not be spot on. Ls2 pistons aren't much better if any better then ls1 pistons, that said the engine is less stressed at the bhp your seeking.

[chimtvr]

I had aa corvette send me over there tune with the kit however my car being a uk supplied car has a different type of file in the ecu (just my luck).
so i then bought HPtuners they had to rewrite an incremental version so my car would work.
I ended up taking the car to Weltmeister at silverstone apparently they used to do a lot with supercharged holdens???
£700 later i left with a printout saying 540 hp and on driving theres a kind of flat spot in the high revs which really should have been sorted out in the 5 days they had the car.
So now the weather is drying up im starting mapping it on road myself once i am pretty close with the software i have the use of a local rolling road for £45 an hour.
the flat spot turns out to be the mass air flow meter hitting its maximum
So yet another $300 later i will be out tomorrow calibrating a lingenfelter maf
oh and yes i also had to change the clutch and fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator
once i have it tuned i will take it to the rolling road to check progress
any more questions about my expensively gained experiance fire away!
all in all though the aa corvette kit is really nicely made and andy is very helpful www.aacorvette.com

[ian_uk1975]

chimtvr said:

I had aa corvette send me over there tune with the kit however my car being a uk supplied car has a different type of file in the ecu (just my luck).
so i then bought HPtuners they had to rewrite an incremental version so my car would work.
I ended up taking the car to Weltmeister at silverstone apparently they used to do a lot with supercharged holdens???
£700 later i left with a printout saying 540 hp and on driving theres a kind of flat spot in the high revs which really should have been sorted out in the 5 days they had the car.
So now the weather is drying up im starting mapping it on road myself once i am pretty close with the software i have the use of a local rolling road for £45 an hour.
the flat spot turns out to be the mass air flow meter hitting its maximum
So yet another $300 later i will be out tomorrow calibrating a lingenfelter maf
oh and yes i also had to change the clutch and fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator
once i have it tuned i will take it to the rolling road to check progress
any more questions about my expensively gained experiance fire away!
all in all though the aa corvette kit is really nicely made and andy is very helpful www.aacorvette.com

Actually, it's an A&A kit I'm thinking of getting. I'm very familiar with A&A from the CorvetteForum, where I've been a member for about 5 years. Looks like a well-engineered kit and it's got a v.good reputation over there. However, after speaking to Roger @ Monkfish again yesterday, he's got me thinking that I should go with a Magnuson instead (ie. roots/positive displacement vs centrifugal). Before speaking to Roger, I had convinced myself that centri was the way to go, but now I'm starting to come round to the roots idea. Trouble with the centri blowers (like the Vortech and ATI) is they behave very-much like a turbocharger; v.little boost until you're up at around 3,500rpm, whereas the roots/twin-screw blowers develop maximum boost just off idle and maintain it to almost maximum revs. Thinking about it, I very rarely see >3k RPM on my car when driving about. The thing is, the LS2 isn't exactly a rev-monster. Yes, it spins to 6,600rpm, but it somehow feels out of its comfort zone at high revs. The idea of being able to be cruising at 60-70mph in 5th and having instant boost when I punch it, without having to change-down is an attractive prospect. The way I read someone describe the difference between centri and roots was to give an example of 2 cars (one with a centri blower, the other with a roots unit) driving along in 5th gear on the motorway. They both punch it from a 50mph roll... the roots car would leave the other car for dead. Only trouble with the Maggie is the need for an expensive aftermarket hood for the required clearance.

Grrrr... what to do!

By the way, Roger @ Monkfish is a top chap; he comes across as an enthusiast and he very kindly offered to let me drive their supercharged Monaro demonstrator just so I can experience what a roots-style blower feels like to drive. In fact, he was virtually twisting my arm to go down there are take it out for a spin!

Cheers,
Ian.

[chimtvr]

ian if you are ever in the south west it might be worth getting a ride in my car before you make your decision its not boosty like a turbo would be and it makes hardly any noise.
i would go the centrifugal way again and i have nothing to sell.
see what you think at least this would give you more knowledge to make your own decision

[franv8]

ian_uk1975 said:

vetteheadracer said:

Think of a number and treble it in my experience!

I supercharged my 1996 LT4 which was fine for the first 600 miles then the clutch gave up the unequal struggle with the extra torque. At about 8,000 miles one of the pistons decided to fall apart

LS2 pistons are reportedly good in boosted apps up to ~550rwhp. In any event, I won't be using boost very often at all; the car is a daily driver and, in normal driving, I never exceed 3k rpm. So, that being said, I'm hoping that it will be 100% reliable with a conservative fuel map for an extra margin of safety. The blower I'll be getting will also be intercooled.

Cheers,
Ian.

Hahahahaha - good luck! Sounds like the sort fo thing an alcaholic would say if given the keys to the bar!

[ringram]

chimtvr said:

the flat spot turns out to be the mass air flow meter hitting its maximum
So yet another $300 later i will be out tomorrow calibrating a lingenfelter maf

I think you will find the same problem with the larger diameter maf. Neither this nor the stock one can read over 512g/sec of airflow. Its an ECU hard limit not a function of the diameter of the MAF.
The only benefit of the larger diameter is less restriction. Which in a forced induction application has little or no importance. They are more suited to naturally aspirated applications.

If you want to tune your forced induction applications properly you should use a 2bar map sensor and custom operating system in your ECU, which allows the VE table to read over atmospheric. 512g/sec is only around 450rwhp. A 2bar Maf tune has in effect no limit on airflow calculations. You will then have total control over fueling across the board. Spending some time on ls1.com.au or efilive/hpt forums will show this to be how most proper tunes are done.

ian_uk1975 said:

The thing is, the LS2 isn't exactly a rev-monster. Yes, it spins to 6,600rpm, but it somehow feels out of its comfort zone at high revs.

I believe the reason for this is the stock heads and intake. Neither are designed to flow more than 250cfm. Aftermarket heads will flow about 30% more and you will regain your top end. Also dont forget the stock cam is designed to peak around 4400rpm. So cam selection will also help assuming you have removed any restriction in the intake tract, or exhaust tract for that matter.

[chimtvr]

ringram the lingenfelter maf seems to work just fine and doesnt seem to peak in the same way as the original but yes after reading a lot on hptuners a 2bar maf does seem the way forward if i want much more power
thanks for your advice as its free i will have any thats going

[RedDevilCorvette]

ian_uk1975 said:

chimtvr said:

I had aa corvette send me over there tune with the kit however my car being a uk supplied car has a different type of file in the ecu (just my luck).
so i then bought HPtuners they had to rewrite an incremental version so my car would work.
I ended up taking the car to Weltmeister at silverstone apparently they used to do a lot with supercharged holdens???
£700 later i left with a printout saying 540 hp and on driving theres a kind of flat spot in the high revs which really should have been sorted out in the 5 days they had the car.
So now the weather is drying up im starting mapping it on road myself once i am pretty close with the software i have the use of a local rolling road for £45 an hour.
the flat spot turns out to be the mass air flow meter hitting its maximum
So yet another $300 later i will be out tomorrow calibrating a lingenfelter maf
oh and yes i also had to change the clutch and fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator
once i have it tuned i will take it to the rolling road to check progress
any more questions about my expensively gained experiance fire away!
all in all though the aa corvette kit is really nicely made and andy is very helpful www.aacorvette.com

Actually, it's an A&A kit I'm thinking of getting. I'm very familiar with A&A from the CorvetteForum, where I've been a member for about 5 years. Looks like a well-engineered kit and it's got a v.good reputation over there. However, after speaking to Roger @ Monkfish again yesterday, he's got me thinking that I should go with a Magnuson instead (ie. roots/positive displacement vs centrifugal). Before speaking to Roger, I had convinced myself that centri was the way to go, but now I'm starting to come round to the roots idea. Trouble with the centri blowers (like the Vortech and ATI) is they behave very-much like a turbocharger; v.little boost until you're up at around 3,500rpm, whereas the roots/twin-screw blowers develop maximum boost just off idle and maintain it to almost maximum revs. Thinking about it, I very rarely see >3k RPM on my car when driving about. The thing is, the LS2 isn't exactly a rev-monster. Yes, it spins to 6,600rpm, but it somehow feels out of its comfort zone at high revs. The idea of being able to be cruising at 60-70mph in 5th and having instant boost when I punch it, without having to change-down is an attractive prospect. The way I read someone describe the difference between centri and roots was to give an example of 2 cars (one with a centri blower, the other with a roots unit) driving along in 5th gear on the motorway. They both punch it from a 50mph roll... the roots car would leave the other car for dead. Only trouble with the Maggie is the need for an expensive aftermarket hood for the required clearance.

Grrrr... what to do!

By the way, Roger @ Monkfish is a top chap; he comes across as an enthusiast and he very kindly offered to let me drive their supercharged Monaro demonstrator just so I can experience what a roots-style blower feels like to drive. In fact, he was virtually twisting my arm to go down there are take it out for a spin!

Cheers,
Ian.

My C5 has Monkfish's sports pac fitted and it is a very nice job. Roger is as you say a top chap and I have seen a lot of the work they have done on Monaro's etc and it is all very neat and well done it does not leave the garage unless it is perfect. I have driven their demonstrator and it is just relentless when accelerating, it pulls from low revs and keeps going. It is also nice to drive at low speeds you hardly have to change gear because of the power and it is a heavy car. If you get a chance to drive it take it.