Slow Z06 vs GT2 Porsche
Discussion
What happened here? The Z looks really slow
http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.aspx?AR=231915&CT=V
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=513904
http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.aspx?AR=231915&CT=V
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=513904
THX138 said:
What happened here? The Z looks really slow
http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.aspx?AR=231915&CT=V
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=513904
Nothing more than expected really - the GT2 weighs the same as the Z06 has a smaller frontal area and a better drag coeff - launch control and overboost to give at least 50bhp over the standard Z06http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.aspx?AR=231915&CT=V
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=513904
Experience has taught me never to trust 'paper' output of turbocharged cars submitted for roadtest - no doubt the Porsche will be very healthy
But then there's a lot you can do to a Z06 for £60000
Edited by songman3 on Wednesday 26th March 22:11
I'm a committed Vette C6/ZO6 fan but even if there is £60k difference the Porker ate the ZO6 for breakfast.
Either Harris was driving the Vette like a total Muppet (although bar bulking 2nd to 3rd shift (which any C6/ZO6 owner will tell you is pretty common if you are racing through the gears), he looked like he was doing a pretty good job. The GT2 just catapulted away like the ZO6 was being dragged backwards. Most surprising.
In fact is was so embarrassing that I never want to see that video EVER AGAIN !
On the other hand, if Harris was driving Erik the Vetking or Mr. Yu's ever so slightly modified ZO6 it may have been another story. (At least I would like to think so).
Either Harris was driving the Vette like a total Muppet (although bar bulking 2nd to 3rd shift (which any C6/ZO6 owner will tell you is pretty common if you are racing through the gears), he looked like he was doing a pretty good job. The GT2 just catapulted away like the ZO6 was being dragged backwards. Most surprising.
In fact is was so embarrassing that I never want to see that video EVER AGAIN !
On the other hand, if Harris was driving Erik the Vetking or Mr. Yu's ever so slightly modified ZO6 it may have been another story. (At least I would like to think so).
Edited by G4HKS on Thursday 27th March 18:27
G4HKS said:
I'm a committed Vette C6/ZO6 fan but even if there is £60k difference the Porker ate the ZO6 for breakfast.
Either Harris was driving the Vette like a total Muppet (although bar bulking 2nd to 3rd shift (which any C6/ZO6 owner will tell you is pretty common if you are racing through the gears), he looked like he was doing a pretty good job. The GT2 just catapulted away like the ZO6 was being dragged backwards. Most surprising.
In fact is was so embarrassing that I never want to see that video EVER AGAIN !
On the other hand, if Harris was driving Erik the Vetking or Mr. Yu's ever so slightly modified ZO6 it may have been another story. (At least I would like to think so).
Here is something that might put your faith back in the Z06Either Harris was driving the Vette like a total Muppet (although bar bulking 2nd to 3rd shift (which any C6/ZO6 owner will tell you is pretty common if you are racing through the gears), he looked like he was doing a pretty good job. The GT2 just catapulted away like the ZO6 was being dragged backwards. Most surprising.
In fact is was so embarrassing that I never want to see that video EVER AGAIN !
On the other hand, if Harris was driving Erik the Vetking or Mr. Yu's ever so slightly modified ZO6 it may have been another story. (At least I would like to think so).
Edited by G4HKS on Thursday 27th March 18:27
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLyNVAvXw88
what a !!!! head, that guy needs his head rammed up that zo6 tail pipes.He needs to learn how to drag race a 2wd v8 muscle car to start with stock zo6 will run a 11.7s to 8s have seen that with my own eyes 122mph plus got to be a high 7 or very low 8 to 100 in that vette if not driven or tested by a s
t mag.
t mag.I feel better now:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=L729eQpudKk
click on the above to see why....
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=L729eQpudKk
click on the above to see why....
Edited by G4HKS on Thursday 27th March 22:41
I normally really like Chris Harris, but that piece was total dross.
He obviously knew nothing about the Z06 (Autocar have never even tested one before) and his tired, cliche of "it's got the suspension from a light goods vehicle" was beneath contempt.
I don't think any magazine anywhere in the world has tested a Z06 at 10s to 100mph.
Did he know it revs (and needs to in order to perform its best) to 7,100rpm?
He didn't even bother to experiment with launch revs (I think he left them far too low, from what I could hear) and his 2nd to 3rd shift was pitifully slow.
Having said that, it was obvious that the GT2 is truly, awesomely fast.
The last time I ran against one (a 996) at Brunters, I was beaten fair and square, even with my Lingenfelter mods.
However I was then relieved to find out it was a DMS-prepared 610bhp one!
As for the Autocar video, notice which car they enjoyed sliding and roaring for the camera most...
He obviously knew nothing about the Z06 (Autocar have never even tested one before) and his tired, cliche of "it's got the suspension from a light goods vehicle" was beneath contempt.
I don't think any magazine anywhere in the world has tested a Z06 at 10s to 100mph.
Did he know it revs (and needs to in order to perform its best) to 7,100rpm?
He didn't even bother to experiment with launch revs (I think he left them far too low, from what I could hear) and his 2nd to 3rd shift was pitifully slow.
Having said that, it was obvious that the GT2 is truly, awesomely fast.
The last time I ran against one (a 996) at Brunters, I was beaten fair and square, even with my Lingenfelter mods.
However I was then relieved to find out it was a DMS-prepared 610bhp one!
As for the Autocar video, notice which car they enjoyed sliding and roaring for the camera most...
No excuses the Porker is an amazing car, and so it should be at that price. Looking at the video, does the Z06 "bog down" prior to being launched ? Again the cynical cheap shots about handling seems to come out when ever they associate the words "American" and "car" together. I find this always discredits the person when they trot out the "Handling" rubbish, I've been in plenty of vettes that have stayed with or gone past AWD opposition. Remember the woman who beat the kit car around the course with her Viper at TOTB one year, there's a video of it somewhere.
ZR1cliff said:
No excuses the Porker is an amazing car, and so it should be at that price. Looking at the video, does the Z06 "bog down" prior to being launched ? Again the cynical cheap shots about handling seems to come out when ever they associate the words "American" and "car" together. I find this always discredits the person when they trot out the "Handling" rubbish, I've been in plenty of vettes that have stayed with or gone past AWD opposition. Remember the woman who beat the kit car around the course with her Viper at TOTB one year, there's a video of it somewhere.
The "woman" you mention is Nad off of the Viper forum N GTS is her id.....and yes she beat Duncan Cowpar in the Dax. Watching the French GT last night on the TV it was interesting that the two C6R Corvettes left all the other cars in the wet race and also the Viper Coupe won the GT3 class against the Ferrari 430's and Porkers.vetteheadracer said:
Watching the French GT last night on the TV it was interesting that the two C6R Corvettes left all the other cars in the wet race and also the Viper Coupe won the GT3 class against the Ferrari 430's and Porkers.
The C6Rs looked a real handful though, even on the straights on standing water - perhaps the drivers had more guts! Shame about the contact, was a good battle.
Just to offer a yardstick of Z06 performance, here are the top 10 'Standing 3/4 Mile times from the Fighting Torque event last year at Wattisham air base.
The challenge was the fastest time over a 3/4 mile from standing start, and I've included the fastest speed obtained by each car
My car 7th = had a 'Killer Bee' air filter fitted
Both Porsches that beat me were tuned I believe - the 997 had uprated DMS turbos/exhaust etc 600+bhp
Mr Harris
managed the LP640 gearbox better that he did that of the Z06
I was pleased I managed to split the Lambos,and all in all felt the Z06 fared very well against some sophisicated opposition - I actually felt I could have done better, as I was very new to the car,and had only 4 runs where as others had 6 or 7
Overall
1 adrian w Noble M400 23.49 - 173.20
2 Ultima GTR 23.80- 165.51
3 Yorkshire Porsche 997 Turbo 23.94 - 169.52
4 Mr Harris Lamborghini LP640 24.03 - 172.33
5 jasonsear Nissan GTR R34 24.36 - 162.62
6 Blkrokt Porsche 996 TT 24.39 - 166.31
7= Twerlie Noble M12 24.64 - 162.15
7= Songman3 Corvette C6-Z06 24.64 - 164.17
8 phatgixer Mercedes SL65 AMG 24.78 - 164.65
9 kenny0811 Porsche 996 Turbo 24.82 - 163.63
10 paulsearle Lamborghini Muecielago 24.92 - 162.74
There were another 80 odd cars as 'also rans'
The challenge was the fastest time over a 3/4 mile from standing start, and I've included the fastest speed obtained by each car
My car 7th = had a 'Killer Bee' air filter fitted
Both Porsches that beat me were tuned I believe - the 997 had uprated DMS turbos/exhaust etc 600+bhp
Mr Harris
managed the LP640 gearbox better that he did that of the Z06 I was pleased I managed to split the Lambos,and all in all felt the Z06 fared very well against some sophisicated opposition - I actually felt I could have done better, as I was very new to the car,and had only 4 runs where as others had 6 or 7
Overall
1 adrian w Noble M400 23.49 - 173.20
2 Ultima GTR 23.80- 165.51
3 Yorkshire Porsche 997 Turbo 23.94 - 169.52
4 Mr Harris Lamborghini LP640 24.03 - 172.33
5 jasonsear Nissan GTR R34 24.36 - 162.62
6 Blkrokt Porsche 996 TT 24.39 - 166.31
7= Twerlie Noble M12 24.64 - 162.15
7= Songman3 Corvette C6-Z06 24.64 - 164.17
8 phatgixer Mercedes SL65 AMG 24.78 - 164.65
9 kenny0811 Porsche 996 Turbo 24.82 - 163.63
10 paulsearle Lamborghini Muecielago 24.92 - 162.74
There were another 80 odd cars as 'also rans'
Edited by songman3 on Friday 28th March 18:47
Edited by songman3 on Friday 28th March 19:00
G4HKS said:
.... And I think "Songman3" was a chap who had driven down from Scotland in his brand new yellow ZO6 for the day - just to "try it out". Feeling better about a ZO6 as the hours go by.... Who's got a red one they want to sell?
Indeed he was that man!Edited by G4HKS on Friday 28th March 18:55
don't forget Harris writes for a couple of Porsche mags as well as Autocar.
With so much weight over the rear rears because the engine is in the wrong place the GT2 gets a good launch if you are as brutal as he was. You will never equal this in a Corvette. The Corvette probably then suffers because of it's long gearing in 4th 5th and 6th.
I didn't understand the 'I know which car I'd rather be in at 170' comment. The Corvette is I think massively more stable simply because of its length and wheelbase. You can drive a stock C6 at 170 with one hand on the wheel.
In many ways the whole comparison was a bit strange.
£50k Corvette takes on £120k (sold out now) Porsche. Perhaps he should have shown £50k M3 takes on £50k Corvette or £65k Carrera and I think the tables would have been reversed.
With so much weight over the rear rears because the engine is in the wrong place the GT2 gets a good launch if you are as brutal as he was. You will never equal this in a Corvette. The Corvette probably then suffers because of it's long gearing in 4th 5th and 6th.
I didn't understand the 'I know which car I'd rather be in at 170' comment. The Corvette is I think massively more stable simply because of its length and wheelbase. You can drive a stock C6 at 170 with one hand on the wheel.
In many ways the whole comparison was a bit strange.
£50k Corvette takes on £120k (sold out now) Porsche. Perhaps he should have shown £50k M3 takes on £50k Corvette or £65k Carrera and I think the tables would have been reversed.
Edited by XTR2Turbo on Friday 28th March 19:10
http://www.ukstreetracers.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6017
Fastest 1/4 mile time by a bone stock Z06 is now 10.98 @ 128.90mph. A little bit faster than that GT2 methinks.
Having drag raced a Z06 in this country more than anyone else, and having tested my car with EVO magazine using the same Racelogic timing gear as Harris, I feel qualified to comment.
The 911 GT2 uses alot of electronics to do the work of a very good driver, which is cheating really.
The times he ran without help from a computer in the GT2 were worse by far than I've run in my Z06 without traction control - which equalled his best with traction on in the GT2.
As has already been mentioned, the 911 has a rear engine which is great for launching, but terrible for handling.
Chris Harris is a long time 911 pilot and fan and obviously knows how to drive one of those.
The Z06 needs all electronics switched off as they are designed to help you out on the road rather than help you keep the thing on the track when you goof it; the opposite of the Porsche which needs all the electronics to work properly. The Corvette is designed to go fastest when operated by human.
You need to learn how not to invoke the torque management program which is still on when you have switched the traction control off when you launch a Z06 else you'll not run the times. You'd have thought a professional magazine would bother to find this out - they obviously know how to press all the buttons in the GT2 to get it to work to it's best so why didn't they bother to find out how to drive a Corvette?
You need to time gearchanges perfectly (another thing Harris clearly can't do very well) and change gear at exactly the moment when the shift up arrow blinks on in the Head Up Display so that you get as close as possible to 7,200 rpm without hitting the rev limiter. The Z06 is hard to launch perfectly, you need to pay attention to temperatures and clutch fluid in particular, and use the correct revs and clutch release technique. But when you do learn how to drive it, learn how to hit 60mph in 1st gear (hence the slow time he ran), then you will match the factory times, and as others have proved even beat them.
As for his stupid comment about the Z06 having the suspension from a commercial vehicle, yawn.
How many times has a Corvette won Le Mans in the past few years? Which car won the manufacturers FIA GT3 title last year? 7m 42 second lap time around the Nurburgring? You don't do that with poor handling. My Z06 came out at 51% front 49% rear weight distribution when EVO put it on their corner weight scales. It has a rear gearbox, and engine mounted completely behind the front wheels for good balance. A logical layout for a good handling car. The 911 has a rear engine and awful weight distribution, and terrible handling. I couldn't care less what type of suspension a car has if it works well which the Z06 does, and a 911 doesn't.
The Z06 clearly is not a bad handling car, quite the opposite, and to say that when comparing it to a 911 without criticising the 911, one of the worst handling cars ever made, you have to be a total f#cking idiot. Just because they have been making those awful pimped out Beetles for years doesn't mean that you can never say a bad word about them. The only reason magazines like Autocar gush about cars made by Porsche (and Ferrari) is because they need to get sales and they know that they won't get given test cars if they say bad things about them.
Lets face it, the Cayman and Boxster are both far better designs than the 911, and both handle a million times better than a 911.
If only Porsche could stop pandering to middle aged men with kids who will never go faster than the speed limit in their 911, and instead concentrate on fitting the decent engines they make into the Cayman they might just have a sports car worthy of some praise. As it is, the Cayman and Boxster are too slow and the 911 is shockingly bad around corners.
Fastest 1/4 mile time by a bone stock Z06 is now 10.98 @ 128.90mph. A little bit faster than that GT2 methinks.
Having drag raced a Z06 in this country more than anyone else, and having tested my car with EVO magazine using the same Racelogic timing gear as Harris, I feel qualified to comment.
The 911 GT2 uses alot of electronics to do the work of a very good driver, which is cheating really.
The times he ran without help from a computer in the GT2 were worse by far than I've run in my Z06 without traction control - which equalled his best with traction on in the GT2.
As has already been mentioned, the 911 has a rear engine which is great for launching, but terrible for handling.
Chris Harris is a long time 911 pilot and fan and obviously knows how to drive one of those.
The Z06 needs all electronics switched off as they are designed to help you out on the road rather than help you keep the thing on the track when you goof it; the opposite of the Porsche which needs all the electronics to work properly. The Corvette is designed to go fastest when operated by human.
You need to learn how not to invoke the torque management program which is still on when you have switched the traction control off when you launch a Z06 else you'll not run the times. You'd have thought a professional magazine would bother to find this out - they obviously know how to press all the buttons in the GT2 to get it to work to it's best so why didn't they bother to find out how to drive a Corvette?
You need to time gearchanges perfectly (another thing Harris clearly can't do very well) and change gear at exactly the moment when the shift up arrow blinks on in the Head Up Display so that you get as close as possible to 7,200 rpm without hitting the rev limiter. The Z06 is hard to launch perfectly, you need to pay attention to temperatures and clutch fluid in particular, and use the correct revs and clutch release technique. But when you do learn how to drive it, learn how to hit 60mph in 1st gear (hence the slow time he ran), then you will match the factory times, and as others have proved even beat them.
As for his stupid comment about the Z06 having the suspension from a commercial vehicle, yawn.
How many times has a Corvette won Le Mans in the past few years? Which car won the manufacturers FIA GT3 title last year? 7m 42 second lap time around the Nurburgring? You don't do that with poor handling. My Z06 came out at 51% front 49% rear weight distribution when EVO put it on their corner weight scales. It has a rear gearbox, and engine mounted completely behind the front wheels for good balance. A logical layout for a good handling car. The 911 has a rear engine and awful weight distribution, and terrible handling. I couldn't care less what type of suspension a car has if it works well which the Z06 does, and a 911 doesn't.
The Z06 clearly is not a bad handling car, quite the opposite, and to say that when comparing it to a 911 without criticising the 911, one of the worst handling cars ever made, you have to be a total f#cking idiot. Just because they have been making those awful pimped out Beetles for years doesn't mean that you can never say a bad word about them. The only reason magazines like Autocar gush about cars made by Porsche (and Ferrari) is because they need to get sales and they know that they won't get given test cars if they say bad things about them.
Lets face it, the Cayman and Boxster are both far better designs than the 911, and both handle a million times better than a 911.
If only Porsche could stop pandering to middle aged men with kids who will never go faster than the speed limit in their 911, and instead concentrate on fitting the decent engines they make into the Cayman they might just have a sports car worthy of some praise. As it is, the Cayman and Boxster are too slow and the 911 is shockingly bad around corners.
Edited by JenkinsComp on Saturday 29th March 12:14
Edited by JenkinsComp on Saturday 29th March 12:17
Gassing Station | Corvettes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff