Water / Methanol Injection

[vetteheadracer]

I recently fitted a water / methanol injection kit to my Twin Turbo Z06 and yesterday had it dyno'd, it has added 40BHP and that was with a pass at only 56% throttle!!



The kit is dead easy to fit and uses very high quality parts.



So I have decided to sell the kits in the UK



If anyone wants a kit then PM me as I am selling them at £295 inc. shipping / import duty / VAT all that will need to be added is UK shipping to your door.



The kit is not just for Corvettes and will work with pretty much any car the higher output the bigger the gains.

[owenemyr]

So you stop at the nearest hostelry for an alcohol top-up, the water, well use your imagination.!!
Seriously, though, I believe that you may require a customs and exise licence for the purchase/storage of methanol in any amount larger than 1 litre, and the health and safety mob may also want their say.
I, however being a respectable member of the medical profession, require no such paperwork, mmmmm!

[anonymous-user]

owenemyr said:

So you stop at the nearest hostelry for an alcohol top-up...

Your local sounds dodgy! I should watch what you're drinking!

Ethanol (vodka) = blind drunk
Methanol (rocket fuel) = drunk and blinded

[te51cle]

I remember them being recommended when turbocharging took off in the late 80s. How long does the water reservoir last at full power ? 10 minutes, 10 passes down the strip ? Is it the kind that only sprays when required ?

owenemyr said:

I, however being a respectable member of the medical profession, require no such paperwork, mmmmm!

So you can write methanol prescriptions for all your mates too ?

Edited by te51cle on Thursday 24th May 18:47

[owenemyr]

In the early 80's, the idea of water injection into you intake aquired a mild cult status with both cleaner burn and better fuel mileage claimed, but it ended as all charlatans, burnt at the stake I suppose.
In the late 50's early 60's, there was a petrol sold by ICI as a by-product, called Cleveland Discoll (I think) and that had a certain % of methanol in it.
Its the old adage:
"What goes round comes round"

[te51cle]

Its been in use for many years. Some WWII fighters were fitted with water/methanol injection as an emergency power boost. I flew on a Belfast a few years ago which had a selectable water/methanol or water only injection system to boost power for take-off. They had to consult a book of graphs every time they planned a flight to work out how much of each to use according to the outside temperature and air pressure.

[Boosted LS1]

It works and works well. Like driving your car on a nice damp day except you still have grip! In the past I've only used water in modest amounts feeding it through my turbo's. Now I'm doing an 8 port system but may use a methanol mix as well. You need good fittings if using methanol.

Boosted.

[stevieturbo]

Plastic works great....

I see no reason why customs would care if you are storing methanol ?

Some windscreen concentrates use a high proportion of methanol, and can be used.

How much does it use ?? depends how much you set it up to use, and how big your reservoir is.


As for the 50/50 debate....there is no real winner there. The fastest guys using it in the US say to squirt 100% meth.
The technical/theory guys who run slower, say use 50/50...

So while each has their own reasons for using 50/50 or 100%...I know which ones I believe.

Up to a point...the more the merrier

[c4koh]

So, if this is available for any car (e.g. my ZR1???) then how exactly does it work?

Does it connect somehow to the air intake and thus squirt a mixture (as you like) of alchohol + water, or is it more complex than this...

For £295 I'm sure I'd some HP to the current 430 or so, so I'd be interested...

[Boosted LS1]

c4koh said:

So, if this is available for any car (e.g. my ZR1???) then how exactly does it work?

Does it connect somehow to the air intake and thus squirt a mixture (as you like) of alchohol + water, or is it more complex than this...

Good kits come with a small ecu which is referenced to the inlet vacuum. When vacuum drops under load more liquid gets admitted to the intake. There's also a means of metering flow according to engine size. Better kits will have atomisation nozzle/s. My kit's an edlebrock (discontinued) but similar kits can be bought in Oz or in the UK you can throw money towards an ERL which is probably top of the range stuff.

Boosted.

[vetteheadracer]

Boosted LS1 said:

c4koh said:

So, if this is available for any car (e.g. my ZR1???) then how exactly does it work?

Does it connect somehow to the air intake and thus squirt a mixture (as you like) of alchohol + water, or is it more complex than this...

Good kits come with a small ecu which is referenced to the inlet vacuum. When vacuum drops under load more liquid gets admitted to the intake. There's also a means of metering flow according to engine size. Better kits will have atomisation nozzle/s. My kit's an edlebrock (discontinued) but similar kits can be bought in Oz or in the UK you can throw money towards an ERL which is probably top of the range stuff.

Boosted.

The kit I fitted from Snow Performance comes with a large pump the nozzle that you insert into your intake all of the connectors and hoses and the small ecu that as Boosted says uses the inlet vacuum. i.e. the system is only active when you are on boost. Obviosuly if you are not running a turbo / supercharger setup then can still fit one of the kits as the affect of chemical supercharging is two fold.

1. The Methanol or you can use Ethanol and in the UK that means any concentrated screen wash (about £6 for 5 litres) acts as an octane booster about 120-130 RON!!
2. The water cools the air passing into the engine meaning that it is denser and also the water contains oxygen which also burns, which also helps combustion.

One of the reasons I am selling this particular kit is that compared with most aftermarket stuff I have bought from the US the kit uses excellent components, easy to install, great and copious instructions and the guy at the company have been dealing with knows what he is talking about!

The main reason I am selling these kits is the HP gains they advertise are actually true!

The stage II kit will work on turbo diesel trucks, turbocharged subarus, evos, skylines, anything with a supercharger. The stage I kit works with pretty much anything else.

For C5 Corvettes there is kit specifically designed to work with the MAF and therefore does not require additional tuning.

On my installation given the lack of available space I am using the windscreen washer resevoir to hold the water / ethanol mix (or diluted screen wash as it is better known).

Full details here:

www.snowperformance.net

Edited by vetteheadracer on Friday 25th May 09:41

[GreenV8S]

I haven't looked at their stuff recently, but ERL brought out some rather nice integrated dash display/controller systems a year or so back. The nice thing about these is that they include error detection and can provide feedback to the ECU so your engine can be protected if the WI system develops a fault.

Edited by GreenV8S on Friday 25th May 10:02

[vetteheadracer]

c4koh said:

So, if this is available for any car (e.g. my ZR1???) then how exactly does it work?

Does it connect somehow to the air intake and thus squirt a mixture (as you like) of alchohol + water, or is it more complex than this...

For £295 I'm sure I'd some HP to the current 430 or so, so I'd be interested...

You would want this kit......

http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=40

[vetteheadracer]

GreenV8S said:

I haven't looked at their stuff recently, but ERL brought out some rather nice integrated dash display/controller systems a year or so back. The nice thing about these is that they include error detection and can provide feedback to the ECU so your engine can be protected if the WI system develops a fault.

Edited by GreenV8S on Friday 25th May 10:02

Snow also do a Safe Injection system which you add on to prevent the nozzle firing if the water supply has run out, you can also use a warning LED to indicate that the water is running low.

http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=13

[GreenV8S]

Does that also protect the engine?

[stevieturbo]

c4koh said:

So, if this is available for any car (e.g. my ZR1???) then how exactly does it work?

Does it connect somehow to the air intake and thus squirt a mixture (as you like) of alchohol + water, or is it more complex than this...

For £295 I'm sure I'd some HP to the current 430 or so, so I'd be interested...

I wouldnt be expecting big gains on a n/a engine. Gains may be possible...but not big, and again, you would need to tune/re-map to make the most of it.

Any gains on a boosted engine will also be limited, unless you actually tune/map it to make the most of the spray.
Id also say the 120-130 RON is a bit on the high side.

But on a boosted engine, especially one with heat issues, they can offer very good increases. Especially useful for keeping the charge cool, when airflow through intercoolers isnt always great ( heat soak when queuing to race for example )
Of course water alone will also kill the heat, it just doesnt offer the little octane boost.
Before I had the meth, I had seen IAT's around 60-70degC whilst racing, on a hot day after queuing.
When the meths in use, this is usually around 20-30degC, under same conditions.

But again, tuning must be optimised to make the most of it....but in doing this....if it fails to spray for any reason...well, that might not be so nice.

I also use the Snow kit on my car..as for ERL. Its nice too, but their pumps dont flow anywhere near what the Shurflo pumps do.
But meth flow requirements do depend on how much power you are actually making.

[franv8]

owenemyr said:

In the early 80's, the idea of water injection into you intake aquired a mild cult status with both cleaner burn and better fuel mileage claimed, but it ended as all charlatans, burnt at the stake I suppose.
In the late 50's early 60's, there was a petrol sold by ICI as a by-product, called Cleveland Discoll (I think) and that had a certain % of methanol in it.
Its the old adage:
"What goes round comes round"

I think you need to understand intercooling and its effect in turbo/supercharged engines before you assume water and or methanol injection is just snake oil.

Stevieturbo's comments regarding benefits on a non turbo/supercharged vehicle are correct, you'd only get negligible cooling of the non-heated atmospheric air, whereas with forced induction there is a significant temperature rise due to compression = lower charge density. That higher temperature is partly taken out by air-air intercooling or air-water intercooling (sometimes referred to as charge cooling). Directly adding water or methanol cools the charge further bye vaporation.

Simple eh?

[ringram]

Just a clarification its the CH3OH molecule "OH" part that gives you the extra Oxygen, not the O in H2O thats locked there, taking it off will rob power.
Which is why more methanol is better, it cools and burns. Water only cools, but cools better..

Edited by ringram on Saturday 26th May 16:48

[ssray]

The idea is that water rempoves the most heat but it dose it a bit slowly for an internal cumbustion engine,methanol removes quite a lot less heat but at a much faster rate-mix 50-50 and you also get a boost from the meth` burning.
ray