New evo magazine features 3 page C6 Z06 Lingenfelter review

[godzilla]

No prizes for guessing whose car!

Pretty good article and some great schmoking sideways shots.

I'm most pleased with the way it beat a fully factory-supported Ferrari 599 Fiorano by 0.7s around Bedford's West Ciruit.

Still not as fast as most Yank mags managed to time a stock Z06 though which proves the difference in their timing methods, e.g. one-up, minimal fuel, drag strip surface, powershifting etc.

BTW these figures were done with it at only 550bhp. It is now up to 568bhp and I'm waiting for Lingenfelter to explain where the other 50bhp has gone...

[lnrd]

I'm not sure I can work out how the LPE was 2s per lap quicker at Bedford over a standard Z06 with 'only' 45bhp more (even with your uprated brakes)? Different track conditions?

[cheeky]

Old news David! I had that mag in my hands last Friday... can't believe a "friend of Evo" like you doesn't subscribe!

[godzilla]

lnrd said:

I'm not sure I can work out how the LPE was 2s per lap quicker at Bedford over a standard Z06 with 'only' 45bhp more (even with your uprated brakes)? Different track conditions?

You said it. 45bhp and better brakes plus the fact that Chris Jenkins' Z06 had only done a couple of hundred miles when they tested it.

[godzilla]

cheeky said:

Old news David! I had that mag in my hands last Friday... can't believe a "friend of Evo" like you doesn't subscribe!

We don't have to subscribe, we get them for free! Unless we accidentally get "culled" from the contributors' list...
Lord 'Arry himself told me it would get sorted so I am hoping it will by the next issue.

[parklane]

godzilla said:

You said it. 45bhp and better brakes plus the fact that Chris Jenkins' Z06 had only done a couple of hundred miles when they tested it.

How do the grooved discs compare with the originals (before they were ruined at Brunt...)?

It would be interesting to see what Chris's car would do now that it is 'gently' run in at 10,000 miles.

[chris_n]

Great article - as a secret Z06 wannabe I read it with interest. Is it really down on power or could it just be problems measuring it? I noticed in the same issue they had to change the tyres on the 599 to get the right power reading. Could it just be down to a similar issue?

Congrats on a fantastic car.

Chris

[vetteheadracer]

American aftermarket HP gain claims are (let's be polite here) a little "optimistic" shall we say?

In my experience and as you know I have a lot regarding aftermarket HP gains, the only one I have so far found to be accurate is Procharger's HP claims for their Superchargers.

Given your Lingenfelter kit consists of a different cam I am not surprised you are missing 50HP......I would suggest re-mapping the ECU to run the car a little leaner would free up the other 50HP.

I read the article with interest in the smallest room in the house the other day, was interested to see the comments regarding body roll, I assume GM do a "T1" swaybar similar to the upgrade kit they sell for the C5. If so I can highly recommend it and I would also consider a set of aftermarket coilover shocks while you are about it.

Edited by vetteheadracer on Thursday 11th January 12:50

[weltmeister]

Not to detract from the 599GTB it had fantastic results. The manufacturer had used a little "licence" on trying to get the best launches and lateral grip by fitting tyres that looked like the ones you & I can buy but in reality were almost like Full Wets in their construction. The rollers inflicted the exact same "damage" as we see when race cars run on Full Wets leading us to the conclusion that something was not quite right.

When the "new" tyres/wheels were installed voila all the BHP expected You work it out

Allan
WRC Technologies

[godzilla]

parklane said:

godzilla said:

You said it. 45bhp and better brakes plus the fact that Chris Jenkins' Z06 had only done a couple of hundred miles when they tested it.

How do the grooved discs compare with the originals (before they were ruined at Brunt...)?

It would be interesting to see what Chris's car would do now that it is 'gently' run in at 10,000 miles.

The Racing Brake discs are better in that they are 9lbs lighter EACH, have proper left and right handed directional vanes and the rotor rings are replaceable bringing the cost of replacement down considerably. Being grooved rather than drilled, they are much more resistant to cracking (although I've just started to notice some minor surface cracks appearing now... )

The actual braking improvement no doubt comes from the Raybestos ST43 pads I've been running for 4000 miles now. Very grippy and fade resistant. Occasionally squealy but not that bad and they shed less dust than the ridiculous stock pads.

[godzilla]

vetteheadracer said:

American aftermarket HP gain claims are (let's be polite here) a little "optimistic" shall we say?

In my experience and as you know I have a lot regarding aftermarket HP gains, the only one I have so far found to be accurate is Procharger's HP claims for their Superchargers.

Given your Lingenfelter kit consists of a different cam I am not surprised you are missing 50HP......I would suggest re-mapping the ECU to run the car a little leaner would free up the other 50HP.

I read the article with interest in the smallest room in the house the other day, was interested to see the comments regarding body roll, I assume GM do a "T1" swaybar similar to the upgrade kit they sell for the C5. If so I can highly recommend it and I would also consider a set of aftermarket coilover shocks while you are about it.

Edited by vetteheadracer on Thursday 11th January 12:50

The kit does comprise more than just a cam Nige! www.lingenfelter.com/pacc6_ZO6camintake.htm

But you're right in that for mine and Eric's cars, they had to remap a brand new ECU on "best guess" spec and send them over. To be fair to LPE, they are not really a mail order company; they mainly tune cars in their workshop and on their rolling road.
Still waiting for their reply to my email...

Do you know anyone with the software and expertise over here who could remap a modified LS7?

I agree with Jethro that the next stage (OK, he said it should have been the first stage!) is to change the suspension. How do you find your LGM coilovers? Are they too hard for everyday use?
My ideal would be an adjustable damper that can be softened off for daily use and stiffened up for track days.

I understand that thicker (maybe adjustable) anti-roll bars are important particularly when dispensing with the leaf springs as they partially fulfill an anti-roll function.

[weltmeister]

I am led to believe that HPTuners has LS7 compatibility now. However HPT appears to be less sophisticated than EFi live. We use EFi live but sadly they are talking about end of qtr 1 before we will see the 1st release of LS7 compatible software.

We can get a loan of HP Tuners software if you wish

Regards

Allan
WRC Tech

[vetteheadracer]

time to spend $3,000 here me thinks!

www.lgmotorsports.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=474_484&osCsid=8e4ddd3dfa34784ff54577a6478af0a6

I have the T1 swaybars and the LG coilovers on my modified C5 Z06 and they make a huge difference to the handling. The LG coilovers are adjustable as there is a knob on them with 12 settings, however unless you want the hassle of jacking up the car everytime you want to change the settings I would recommend a set of Penske remote adjustable shocks.......once they are available.

Regarding tuning in the UK.....only people I trust are Motec specialists (I have a Motec M800 ecu on the modified Z06 TT).

Edited by vetteheadracer on Thursday 11th January 15:52

[godzilla]

vetteheadracer said:

time to spend $3,000 here me thinks!

www.lgmotorsports.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=474_484&osCsid=8e4ddd3dfa34784ff54577a6478af0a6

I have the T1 swaybars and the LG coilovers on my modified C5 Z06 and they make a huge difference to the handling. The LG coilovers are adjustable as there is a knob on them with 12 settings, however unless you want the hassle of jacking up the car everytime you want to change the settings I would recommend a set of Penske remote adjustable shocks.......once they are available.

Regarding tuning in the UK.....only people I trust are Motec specialists (I have a Motec M800 ecu on the modified Z06 TT).

It's high time we had a ride in each other's cars Nigel, I need to see how hard the ride is in your TT beast!
When are you free to meet up?

Is Penske the only option re remote adustable? That might be worth waiting for; I'll email Lou G.

I understand why your set-up needed a Motec, but our lightly modded cars don't. I may well take Allan up on his offer to tune it and acquire the software from somewhere.

[ERIKTHEVETKING]

Get that tuning company sorted GuineaPigZilla I mean Godzilla, I neeeeed that extra 50HP, and I need it NOW

It's gotta be the ECU re-mapping that's letting us down. Seems to me we need to take our Black Beasts somewhere for a little tweaking and some dyno runs to see what gives. Will be interesting to see what Lingenfelter have to say. Yankee forums can't seem to praise them enough...

[Boosted LS1]

I thought there was already aftermarket US based software to map the ls7?

Boosted.

[weltmeister]

Just a small thing I thought of. As we are all aware you cannot normally compare results from one rolling road to another, so if for example Lingenfelder have either a Superflow or a Mustang Dyno or a Sun Maha dyno or a Dynojet Dyno any one of these machines will record a figure c5% HIGHER than a Dyno Dynamics dyno.

So if your latest round of mods has resulted in c568 BHP on a DD machine 568/0.95 = 597.9 so in fact we may be chasing some bhp that already exists. However that is not to say that a tweak here in UK for our fuels etc will not result in a few more ponies being liberated.

What I am saying is in effect you will get c570 BHP on a DD dyno but the same car on the same day on any one of the alternatives could record c600 BHP. In general they are more flattering/less accurate.

Cheers

Allan

Edited by weltmeister on Friday 12th January 10:39

[vetteheadracer]

weltmeister said:

if for example Lingenfelter have either a Mustang Dyno

Dunno if Lingenfelter have a Mustang dyno, but Raceshack at Tewkesbury (the Motec tuning guys that do my car) have a Mustang Dyno, so if Lingenfelter do and you want a comparison I can highly recommend Raceshack.

www.raceshack.co.uk

Speak to Conor or Matty (Matty is a Z06 wannabe so would love to see your C6 Z06 on the dyno).

One thing to be aware of the Mustang dyno is extremely honest so you might be more disappointed. However if you have the tuning software they should be able to liberate some more horses for you. They found 80 BHP for me just by adjusting the fuel mapping which was well rich (it also saved me a fortune in fuel consumption!)

Edited by vetteheadracer on Friday 12th January 09:13

[ringram]

Hi Dave, what was your AFR across the power band?
Without the car on the dyno in their shop they are not going to guess AFR on the lean side, rather the rich side. Also timing is likely to be at the lower optimal end again because they wont want to blow your engine up.
By all accounts on an NA Lsx engine optimal AFR is around the 13:1 mark. or a shade under at 12.8:1
As mentioned by Allan efilive will support the LS7 very shortly, we have just released Vortec engine support so stay tuned. Literaly.

[godzilla]

weltmeister said:

Just a small thing I thought of. As we are all aware you cannot normally compare results from one rolling road to another, so if for example Lingenfelder have either a Superflow or a Mustang Dyno or a Sun Maha dyno or a Dynojet Dyno any one of these machines will record a figure c5% HIGHER than a Dyno Dynamics dyno.

So if your latest round of mods has resulted in c568 BHP on a DD machine 568/0.95 = 597.9 so in fact we may be chasing some bhp that already exists. However that is not to say that a tweak here in UK for our fuels etc will not result in a few more ponies being liberated.

What I am saying is in effect you will get c570 BHP on a DD dyno but the same car on the same day on any one of the alternatives could record c600 BHP. In general they are more flattering/less accurate.

Cheers

Allan

But that is why I was comparing the rear wheel horse power increase rather than the admittedly theoretical final flywheel figure.

We got between a 55 - 58 rwhp increase when the graph I referred to earlier showed a 78rwhp increase.
Whichever way you cut it, the two are not close enough IMO.

Anyway you will see for yourself next Saturday, it is still running way too rich.