DIC errors like a Christmas tree
Discussion
Tech brains time.... thanks in advance....
2000 C5, been brilliant for 15 months - no problems at all - just oil and filters and punctures from the local recycling tip.
Then a couple of days ago, the DIC lit up like a christmas tree - three error messages, Service Traction System, Service Active Handling, Service ABS. obviously, a stop/start will reset the errors but these continue to come on after every restart with no pattern - it can be at any stage in a drive - not necessarily straight away, or after a consistent couple of minutes/miles, or under heavy braking/accelleration - there is no pattern. The good news is that it doesn't go into reduced power mode, so fun continues unaided
Looking at the handbook, it would seem that any fault on the ABS will trigger the traction system to error, which in turn will trigger active handling faults and the subsequent DIC messages. My suspicion is that I have a dodgy ABS sensor on one of the wheels. It will be checked out on Monday, but has anyone seen anything similar previously or have any thoughts to help focus the diagnosis.
Cheers - and a happy new year by the way!
Kev.
2000 C5, been brilliant for 15 months - no problems at all - just oil and filters and punctures from the local recycling tip.
Then a couple of days ago, the DIC lit up like a christmas tree - three error messages, Service Traction System, Service Active Handling, Service ABS. obviously, a stop/start will reset the errors but these continue to come on after every restart with no pattern - it can be at any stage in a drive - not necessarily straight away, or after a consistent couple of minutes/miles, or under heavy braking/accelleration - there is no pattern. The good news is that it doesn't go into reduced power mode, so fun continues unaided
Looking at the handbook, it would seem that any fault on the ABS will trigger the traction system to error, which in turn will trigger active handling faults and the subsequent DIC messages. My suspicion is that I have a dodgy ABS sensor on one of the wheels. It will be checked out on Monday, but has anyone seen anything similar previously or have any thoughts to help focus the diagnosis.
Cheers - and a happy new year by the way!
Kev.
Thanks for the input Dave.
Actually, it's my daily driver and doesn't really sit around at all except when we go on holiday / work abroad.
In this instance, the battery meter is consistently ok before, thru and after the DIC errors, and never a hint of any low battery at cold start times. I'll have it checked as a matter of course - thanks for the heads up.
Cheers!
Actually, it's my daily driver and doesn't really sit around at all except when we go on holiday / work abroad.
In this instance, the battery meter is consistently ok before, thru and after the DIC errors, and never a hint of any low battery at cold start times. I'll have it checked as a matter of course - thanks for the heads up.
Cheers!
Duff battery.
The symptoms you describe are exactly what my car did. Chances are you'll save yourself a lot of grief by just replacing the battery straight away. I know; I couldn't believe it either! How can a car start with a knackered battery? Trust me. These can.
Best explanation I can come up with is the starter motor needs primarily current whereas the electronics need primarily voltage.
The symptoms you describe are exactly what my car did. Chances are you'll save yourself a lot of grief by just replacing the battery straight away. I know; I couldn't believe it either! How can a car start with a knackered battery? Trust me. These can.
Best explanation I can come up with is the starter motor needs primarily current whereas the electronics need primarily voltage.
May be worth giving it a good charge and keeping it on a tender even over night for a while to see if it cures it. Ours is also a daily driver, (although with short trips), and rarely have I opened the bonnet and not found the battery indicator in anything other than charge/replace state.
If you don’t already have one and tender/charger is good investment for your battery life if you are going on holiday for any more than 10 days. We use the halfwits tender charger on both the viper and vette when we go away or else we stand no chance of stating the Vette when we get back.
If you don’t already have one and tender/charger is good investment for your battery life if you are going on holiday for any more than 10 days. We use the halfwits tender charger on both the viper and vette when we go away or else we stand no chance of stating the Vette when we get back.
All these errors point to an ABS sensor problem. On older cars (C4's) these tend to be either the connectors have got moisture in them (you can take them apart, dry them and put a dielectric grease in them) or the wires fracture where they go into the sensor. I have managed to repair one of these before, but realistically it should be a replacement of the sensor. Trouble is trying to find the dodgy one if it's intermittent - although with the OBD2 system on the C5 it probably logs these with enough detail to say which one (if it's that)
I'd go with the duff battery diagnosis too!
www.supac.co.uk
Give these guys a call, give them the details of the AC Delco battery you have, i.e. CCA rating etc. specify you need side posts and give them the dimensions (height, width, length of your current one and they should be able to sort you one out delivered to your door for less than £150
I got one from them (an Optima Yellow Top which is gel filled) I collected it myself as they are only 40 miles from my house.
www.supac.co.uk
Give these guys a call, give them the details of the AC Delco battery you have, i.e. CCA rating etc. specify you need side posts and give them the dimensions (height, width, length of your current one and they should be able to sort you one out delivered to your door for less than £150
I got one from them (an Optima Yellow Top which is gel filled) I collected it myself as they are only 40 miles from my house.
Hmmm.. current thinking.
Managed to find a useful old thread on the DIC diagnostic mode (yes, I am a C5 numpty - I didn't know how). Been thru that. Lots of historical codes, one that I know is real & current is "B0333 outside air temp sensor open on 99-HVAC", and an interesting historical "C1232 LF Wheel Speed Circuit Open or Shorted" on 28-TCS.
Sounds promising, but since I have no clue as to when these other historical codes occurred (maybe previous ownership, maybe this morning), have reset all codes on the DIC. When checking after the reset, the only remaining code is the open HVAC temp - which is right - I can tell that it ain't 69degrees outside at the moment whatever "EXT" says on the climate control!!! All other sections display "no codes". I have a baseline.
The journey home tonight from Weybridge to Basingrad should give me the christmas tree fault at some stage, and I can check the diag codes with some confidence - if loads of spurious ones, then probably start with the battery, if just the wheel sensor and temp sensor, then maybe start looking there first.
Thanks to you guys for chipping in. I'll let you know how it goes.
Managed to find a useful old thread on the DIC diagnostic mode (yes, I am a C5 numpty - I didn't know how). Been thru that. Lots of historical codes, one that I know is real & current is "B0333 outside air temp sensor open on 99-HVAC", and an interesting historical "C1232 LF Wheel Speed Circuit Open or Shorted" on 28-TCS.
Sounds promising, but since I have no clue as to when these other historical codes occurred (maybe previous ownership, maybe this morning), have reset all codes on the DIC. When checking after the reset, the only remaining code is the open HVAC temp - which is right - I can tell that it ain't 69degrees outside at the moment whatever "EXT" says on the climate control!!! All other sections display "no codes". I have a baseline.
The journey home tonight from Weybridge to Basingrad should give me the christmas tree fault at some stage, and I can check the diag codes with some confidence - if loads of spurious ones, then probably start with the battery, if just the wheel sensor and temp sensor, then maybe start looking there first.
Thanks to you guys for chipping in. I'll let you know how it goes.
Had to get a whole new sensor assembly fitted which wasn't cheap. Just got home and inspected my DIC (oo-er missus!).
Got 3 codes:
HVAC - Outside Air Temp (true - it is a problem)
RFA - Tyre Pressure Sensors (true - mine are removed)
TCS - Left Front Wheel Speed Circuit (hmmm).
Too dark to climb under tonight, but fingers crossed for connections rather than the sensor following the last posting from Vette78. Thanks for your input everyone, you are a great bunch.
Kev.
Got 3 codes:
HVAC - Outside Air Temp (true - it is a problem)
RFA - Tyre Pressure Sensors (true - mine are removed)
TCS - Left Front Wheel Speed Circuit (hmmm).
Too dark to climb under tonight, but fingers crossed for connections rather than the sensor following the last posting from Vette78. Thanks for your input everyone, you are a great bunch.
Kev.
If my car's anything to go by that thing stores more old codes than you can shake a stick at. Most of them very very dull so I rapidly defaulted to the old "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mode. If you're worried about ABS or anything serious then it's dead easy to find a wet road and see if the car stops properly in a straight line with the ABS chattering away. (Damn, I love that stuff)
Seriously, unless you've got a newish battery already just get a new one. If you've still got problems afterwards then unless it's a loose wire that's easy to find you might as well start planning for a nice day out in Manchester! At least you won't be going all the way up there just to buy a new battery....
Seriously, unless you've got a newish battery already just get a new one. If you've still got problems afterwards then unless it's a loose wire that's easy to find you might as well start planning for a nice day out in Manchester! At least you won't be going all the way up there just to buy a new battery....
I'd look for a loose or corroded connection first and if I couldn't find one then suspect the battery, especially as its reached a good age. Mine's been playing up a bit in the recent cold weather, voltage is slightly but definitely down on last year so I suspect my battery will have to be replaced shortly. The symptom mine shows is that it resets back to the default of metric measurements on cold startup. Having said that it still starts and has behaved better after a few long drives.
You might want to try this thread.
Bill Curlee has some good advice in here.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=126
Bill Curlee has some good advice in here.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=126
Thanks very much for the additional information on this thread. Luckily, instead of a trip to Manchester, I have a tame motor engineer in Basingstoke who has a computer capable of Corvette tuning and lots of skill and determination. He does my C5 and another C3 locally. I quite like the idea of diagnosing first and providing as much info to him as poss as he only does one C5, and it could be a time (and money) consuming thing for him to do the diagnosis from scratch. I guess that a squeeze and lube of connectors might just see me ok based upon that thread pointed to (thanks). Failing that, I guess Richard will be taking sensors apart, or ordering new ones.
Just to add insult to injury, when I went out on Friday night to get the codes following the reset, I left the interior lights on. Went out Sunday to a completely dead battery!!! When I was jumping it, must have flashed something across the door lock systems as nothing works from the key fob now. Too cold and wet for me to be bothered to sort it, so I'll get Richard to check the fuses/circuit tomorrow. There's a word for people like me - amateur - or stronger, but not for this forum....
Agree that my Vette is probably of the age for a battery, but until the obvious battery problems really kick in (I really do not see any problems that I do not induce by being a numpty and leaving lights on!!), I'll keep the cash in the bank.
Cheers folks.
Just to add insult to injury, when I went out on Friday night to get the codes following the reset, I left the interior lights on. Went out Sunday to a completely dead battery!!! When I was jumping it, must have flashed something across the door lock systems as nothing works from the key fob now. Too cold and wet for me to be bothered to sort it, so I'll get Richard to check the fuses/circuit tomorrow. There's a word for people like me - amateur - or stronger, but not for this forum....
Agree that my Vette is probably of the age for a battery, but until the obvious battery problems really kick in (I really do not see any problems that I do not induce by being a numpty and leaving lights on!!), I'll keep the cash in the bank.
Cheers folks.
Stuff you leave on accidentally usually shuts off automatically after a few minutes and I'm sure that includes the interior lights. Sounds like another pointer to the battery; though if I'm wrong on this it won't be the first time in my life!
Good luck with your search.
Edit: Just checked my owners manual for you. Under hood and interior lights shut off after 15 minutes if you forget to switch them off. See page 82 "Battery Saver" and page 136 "Battery Rundown Protection". More and more it looks as though you have classic Duff Battery symptoms for a C5.
>> Edited by 5USA on Sunday 8th January 21:46
Good luck with your search.
Edit: Just checked my owners manual for you. Under hood and interior lights shut off after 15 minutes if you forget to switch them off. See page 82 "Battery Saver" and page 136 "Battery Rundown Protection". More and more it looks as though you have classic Duff Battery symptoms for a C5.
>> Edited by 5USA on Sunday 8th January 21:46
seefive said:
Just got home and inspected my DIC (oo-er missus!).
Got 3 codes:
HVAC - Outside Air Temp (true - it is a problem)
RFA - Tyre Pressure Sensors (true - mine are removed)
TCS - Left Front Wheel Speed Circuit (hmmm).
Too dark to climb under tonight, but fingers crossed for connections rather than the sensor following the last posting from Vette78. Thanks for your input everyone, you are a great bunch.
Kev.
If your Wheel Speed Circuit is duff then the ABS warning light would be on! Reason I know this one of the spped sensor failed on the Viper and the ABS light came on and the ABS stopped working until it was fixed. So if your ABS is working and the warning light is not on it's pretty safe to assume that you don't have a fault.
I had this with my Z06. I had all the Service Traction Control, Service Active Handling. After a restart, it went away. The Z06 has no wheel sensors. I suspect it was a low battery. I tended to keep the Vette charged on an Accuguard. Even after a trip, slipping on the Accuguard showed the battery still needed topping up to optimal level so it may be that with a fibreglass car, you get a longer term effect. Check the earth connection on the chassis. In my experience, the batteries last about 3-5 years if you're lucky.
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