LS9 HELP PLEASE!!!

[mr lock pick]

Hi Guys

I was wondering if any of you drive a ZR1 or do any of you have an LS9 in any of your cars. Looking to get in touch with anyone who's brains I can pick on there experience of living with an LS9 engine.

I will also consider a sensible modified LS7 that can run @ 600-650 reliable HP. I case you are wondering, I am looking to have this conversion done to my TVR Sagaris.

Please feel free to contact me on here or email me.

Thanking you guys in advance.

Chris

[stevieturbo]

mr lock pick said:

Hi Guys

I was wondering if any of you drive a ZR1 or do any of you have an LS9 in any of your cars. Looking to get in touch with anyone who's brains I can pick on there experience of living with an LS9 engine.

I will also consider a sensible modified LS7 that can run @ 600-650 reliable HP. I case you are wondering, I am looking to have this conversion done to my TVR Sagaris.

Please feel free to contact me on here or email me.

Thanking you guys in advance.

Chris

What are your concerns ? From a packaging point of view, a n/a LS7 build would see your 600hp, would be cheaper and potentially more relibale. Also easier to install I presume.

Probably more LS response in the Holden/HSV section

Are you looking for a new crate motor ? built motor ? full OEM crate setup, ie ecu etc ? Or standalone etc ?

[roscobbc]

Considered an 'old school' after-market ally Brodix/Dart alloy big block, lot a lot heaver than small block but with an easy squeeze to 540 cu in or greater - build a an easy 600/650 BHP with really wide power band - or - a 8000 rpm screamer with 800+ BHP.

Edited by roscobbc on Monday 30th September 00:15

[ringram]

Mine runs 635fwhp small cam.
FI will be smoother as NA will require larger cams to perform.
So depends what you want.
NA will rev freer and further for the most part. Also less parts to break and maintain etc.

Draw your required torque curve then spec the engine to deliver it.

[stevieturbo]

roscobbc said:

Considered an 'old school' after-market ally Brodix/Dart alloy big block, lot a lot heaver than small block but with an easy squeeze to 540 cu in or greater - build a an easy 600/650 BHP with really wide power band - or - a 8000 rpm screamer with 800+ BHP.

Edited by roscobbc on Monday 30th September 00:15

I'd say even an LS would be a tight squeeze into the engine bay, nevermind a big heavier monster.

[roscobbc]

stevieturbo said:

I'd say even an LS would be a tight squeeze into the engine bay, nevermind a big heavier monster.

Larger admittedly but 'that much' heavier if all alloy block and heads?

[stevieturbo]

roscobbc said:

Larger admittedly but 'that much' heavier if all alloy block and heads?

If the block is bigger, then yes. Crank is heavier, heads will be heavier etc.

So just the physical size alone could add a large chunk of weight. LS components in general are fairly light too

[roscobbc]

LS9 = 550lbs (bare or loaded - don't know - similar to stock 'old school' iron small block)- stock GM iron 454 = 650lbs - add alloy heads - loose 80lbs or so - change to alloy Dart or Brodix block - loose 50 to 80lbs or so - step things up a bit with a tall deck block and 4.5" or 4.75" stroker crank - and 600+ cu in's with 800hp/800ftlbs becoming a reality. Whilst weight will creep-up, sub 600lbs all-up is easy enough. 600+ hp LS9 crate engine is $23K - GM ZZ572 is about $14K with 600+ hp. In real terms a streetable big-cube 900hp or so engine could be built up for less than the LS9 - use a 'soft' cam, multipoint efi and reasonable fuel economy could be expected.

[stevieturbo]

roscobbc said:

LS9 = 550lbs (bare or loaded - don't know - similar to stock 'old school' iron small block)- stock GM iron 454 = 650lbs - add alloy heads - loose 80lbs or so - change to alloy Dart or Brodix block - loose 50 to 80lbs or so - step things up a bit with a tall deck block and 4.5" or 4.75" stroker crank - and 600+ cu in's with 800hp/800ftlbs becoming a reality. Whilst weight will creep-up, sub 600lbs all-up is easy enough. 600+ hp LS9 crate engine is $23K - GM ZZ572 is about $14K with 600+ hp. In real terms a streetable big-cube 900hp or so engine could be built up for less than the LS9 - use a 'soft' cam, multipoint efi and reasonable fuel economy could be expected.

LS9 carries a supercharger, and as I suggested, isnt really the best option IMO. Certainly not a great value for money unit.

Crate LSA engine with 550/550 retails in UK for around £9k, although there will be additional costs for some accessories and ecu. But it will be 100% emissions compliant etc etc

Certainly looking at PWP's crate offerings and comparing prices, the ZZ572 would work out more expensive by the time it is installed and MOT/IVA worthy.

And that's if it would physically fit in the Sagaris

http://shop.partsworldperformance.com/gm-v8-crate-...

IMO, a well built n/a engine would be the best and most cost effective option, and best as far as driveability in the car goes. But how far you can take it power wise will depend what emissions constraints you have to live with.

[roscobbc]

Hadn't seen PWP's website for some years since I built-up my engine - prices now are actually far better than 4 or 5 years ago and very interesting - yes, LSA engine looks a good option and yes, with a late model car do do have considerations other than just the physical size and weight to consider. Irrespectively that ZZ572/720 looks attractive to me!

[chuntington101]

How about going for a stock LS3 engine and installing to Eforce or Heardbeat supercharger systems? they are both 50 state legal so should pass any emissions tests. they use the same supercharger as the LS9 engine (tvs2300). just another option. Oh and they both come as bolt on solutions.

[vetteheadracer]

Get an LS7 rather than an LS9, the LS7 made a glorious noise in my 2008 C6 Z06 whereas the biggest disappointment with my 2010 ZR1 with the LS9 is the noise (or lack of).

Also the LS7 will be considerably lighter in a Sag than the LS9.

[7YEL]

vetteheadracer said:

Get an LS7 rather than an LS9, the LS7 made a glorious noise in my 2008 C6 Z06 whereas the biggest disappointment with my 2010 ZR1 with the LS9 is the noise (or lack of).

Also the LS7 will be considerably lighter in a Sag than the LS9.

I agree have a read of this it might help, the Camaro LS7 exhaust manifolds might work well in a tight engine bay and they have a rear exit


http://www.camarohomepage.com/ls7/

[stevieturbo]

7YEL said:

I agree have a read of this it might help, the Camaro LS7 exhaust manifolds might work well in a tight engine bay and they have a rear exit


http://www.camarohomepage.com/ls7/

Nice article, it really is a great engine.

[Troubleatmill]

There is a very good reason Ultima sports cars et all chose the LS7.

[chuntington101]

Troubleatmill said:

There is a very good reason Ultima sports cars et all chose the LS7.

Yeah because the LS9 or LSA wouldn't fit with the front entry superchargers and you can't just turn them around like you can the LS n/a intake manifolds.

[stevieturbo]

chuntington101 said:

Yeah because the LS9 or LSA wouldn't fit with the front entry superchargers and you can't just turn them around like you can the LS n/a intake manifolds.

There are blowers with a rear intake too.

But a blower does add complication and weight. A n/a LS can make plenty of power, and in a very lightweight chassis, a well built n/a engine making lots of power and with a nice rpm range would be far better IMO.

Valley style blowers due to their design, will never excel at high rpm's. Their power delivery would suit bigger heavier cars

[mr lock pick]

Sorry for the late reply gents, have been a little busy. Thanking you all for your replies and info so far. I must confess whilst I may be a speed junkie and a true petro head, I have NO fking Idea on some of the technical terms you guys are using, you need to keep it simple for me!!!!

Aftrer much reading and research it appears I have removed the LS9 option due top cost's and other reasons. So we are back with a standard Create LS7 with a few mods for that extra grin factor or an LS3 with a few mods and the third option would be to have an LS7 or an LS3 with a blower on it. What I want to achive it a smooth bullit proof engine, that can run as smooth as the stock engines if maintained correctly and warm up procedures and all the other stuff etc, that will deliver it's power all the way through the rev range and also be an absolute animal went I want it to. I simply know for a fact that a standard LS7 or LS3 will tick 99% of my boxes but I want that little bit extra.

So the magical question is can one have a special LS7 / 3 with a few simply mods or do we realistically have to go blower option?? Also do not forget that the max size tyres on the rear of a TVR Sag is I think 265's. So one has to consifder wether we can realistically put all this power down on tarmac. From a cost point of view a few LS tuning companies have been quoting me approx £8k, yes £8,000.00 for drive in drive out to supply and install a blower onto the LS7 stock engine. If this is the going rate, am I not better off going for the LS9 which comes with a list of other engine upgrades?

Thanking you all in advance lads and dont forget to keep it simples..........;)

[stevieturbo]

mr lock pick said:

Sorry for the late reply gents, have been a little busy. Thanking you all for your replies and info so far. I must confess whilst I may be a speed junkie and a true petro head, I have NO fking Idea on some of the technical terms you guys are using, you need to keep it simple for me!!!!

Aftrer much reading and research it appears I have removed the LS9 option due top cost's and other reasons. So we are back with a standard Create LS7 with a few mods for that extra grin factor or an LS3 with a few mods and the third option would be to have an LS7 or an LS3 with a blower on it. What I want to achive it a smooth bullit proof engine, that can run as smooth as the stock engines if maintained correctly and warm up procedures and all the other stuff etc, that will deliver it's power all the way through the rev range and also be an absolute animal went I want it to. I simply know for a fact that a standard LS7 or LS3 will tick 99% of my boxes but I want that little bit extra.

So the magical question is can one have a special LS7 / 3 with a few simply mods or do we realistically have to go blower option?? Also do not forget that the max size tyres on the rear of a TVR Sag is I think 265's. So one has to consifder wether we can realistically put all this power down on tarmac. From a cost point of view a few LS tuning companies have been quoting me approx £8k, yes £8,000.00 for drive in drive out to supply and install a blower onto the LS7 stock engine. If this is the going rate, am I not better off going for the LS9 which comes with a list of other engine upgrades?

Thanking you all in advance lads and dont forget to keep it simples..........;)

Given the Sagaris is a small light vehicle, I really would steer away from the supercharged route. At last a valley style blower anyway. Just way too much low end torque.

An important question though. What emissions constraints do you have ? This will be your biggest hindrance to making power, as it will limit camshaft choices.

Also, choose tuners wisely...they are not all the same.

As for fitting a blower to an LS7 engine, complete and utter waste of money. The LS7 engine that is.
If you intend to buy a blower, choose a cheaper base unit.

Also, give Craig at Dynotorque in Birmingham a shout. His friend Brummie has a Cerbera with a 7.0 n/a LS engine, and it's a superb performer


Really you do have dozens of options. Crate motors will limit those options, but may make a decision a little easier.
Emissions constraints will limit those options even further, and if you need to remain very compliant, may force you down the forced induction route in order to make the power.
But again, due to the torquey lower rpm nature of the valley style blowers, hard to say it is the best way to go in a lightweight vehicle.

[chuntington101]

Steve, do you think a corvette style procharger/novi/vortec blower would fit? Easier power delivery than a PD blower and you can run decent intercooling. Just a thought.