49 in a 30 - too serious for FPN
Discussion
Title should read 49 In a 30! Can’t edit title
Dear all I have six points on my license for speeding both 30 mile an hour convictions and was caught doing 49 in a 30 by Man police equipment.
The circumstances for me speeding were as follows was late to a physiotherapy appointment that could have resulted in a claim not being paid out having being a victim of a whiplash incident. Also the location where the offence occurred was a zone that was in the city however had four or more lanes leading me to believe that the speed limit was 40 however I was mistaken.
I realise that both of these are mitigating circumstances and mitigating circumstances do not exist for this offence.
I am, however, remorseful and modified my style in accordance.
My question to you is whether a ban will be likely or would it be more likely to receive five points and fine?
My second question is how do I proceed with the matter? Do I fill out the form with a guilty plea and an explanation without attending court or do I seek legal advice and council and attend a hearing which would give me the most favourable outcome??
I have read that this is a class B and that 4 to 6 points could be issued Or a discretionary short term ban of 7 to 28 days.
Any advice regarding these questions would be gratefully received. The six points that I have gathered are relatively recent and occurred within the last year. I am unsure as to how that might aggravate the offence.
Many thanks in advance of your replies
Dear all I have six points on my license for speeding both 30 mile an hour convictions and was caught doing 49 in a 30 by Man police equipment.
The circumstances for me speeding were as follows was late to a physiotherapy appointment that could have resulted in a claim not being paid out having being a victim of a whiplash incident. Also the location where the offence occurred was a zone that was in the city however had four or more lanes leading me to believe that the speed limit was 40 however I was mistaken.
I realise that both of these are mitigating circumstances and mitigating circumstances do not exist for this offence.
I am, however, remorseful and modified my style in accordance.
My question to you is whether a ban will be likely or would it be more likely to receive five points and fine?
My second question is how do I proceed with the matter? Do I fill out the form with a guilty plea and an explanation without attending court or do I seek legal advice and council and attend a hearing which would give me the most favourable outcome??
I have read that this is a class B and that 4 to 6 points could be issued Or a discretionary short term ban of 7 to 28 days.
Any advice regarding these questions would be gratefully received. The six points that I have gathered are relatively recent and occurred within the last year. I am unsure as to how that might aggravate the offence.
Many thanks in advance of your replies
Edited by Pizzaman19 on Sunday 30th June 12:52
agtlaw said:
Pizzaman19 said:
Title should read 49 In a 30! Can’t edit title
Dear all I have six points on my license for speeding both 30 mile an hour convictions and was caught doing 49 in a 30 by Man police equipment.
The circumstances for me speeding were as follows was late to a physiotherapy appointment that could have resulted in a claim not being paid out having being a victim of a whiplash incident. Also the location where the offence occurred was a zone that was in the city however had four or more lanes leading me to believe that the speed limit was 40 however I was mistaken.
I realise that both of these are mitigating circumstances and mitigating circumstances do not exist for this offence.
I am, however, remorseful and modified my style in accordance.
My question to you is whether a ban will be likely or would it be more likely to receive five points and fine?
My second question is how do I proceed with the matter? Do I fill out the form with a guilty plea and an explanation without attending court or do I seek legal advice and council and attend a hearing which would give me the most favourable outcome??
I have read that this is a class B and that 4 to 6 points could be issued Or a discretionary short term ban of 7 to 28 days.
Any advice regarding these questions would be gratefully received. The six points that I have gathered are relatively recent and occurred within the last year. I am unsure as to how that might aggravate the offence.
Many thanks in advance of your replies
49/30 mph is usually a £100 fixed penalty with 3 points.Dear all I have six points on my license for speeding both 30 mile an hour convictions and was caught doing 49 in a 30 by Man police equipment.
The circumstances for me speeding were as follows was late to a physiotherapy appointment that could have resulted in a claim not being paid out having being a victim of a whiplash incident. Also the location where the offence occurred was a zone that was in the city however had four or more lanes leading me to believe that the speed limit was 40 however I was mistaken.
I realise that both of these are mitigating circumstances and mitigating circumstances do not exist for this offence.
I am, however, remorseful and modified my style in accordance.
My question to you is whether a ban will be likely or would it be more likely to receive five points and fine?
My second question is how do I proceed with the matter? Do I fill out the form with a guilty plea and an explanation without attending court or do I seek legal advice and council and attend a hearing which would give me the most favourable outcome??
I have read that this is a class B and that 4 to 6 points could be issued Or a discretionary short term ban of 7 to 28 days.
Any advice regarding these questions would be gratefully received. The six points that I have gathered are relatively recent and occurred within the last year. I am unsure as to how that might aggravate the offence.
Many thanks in advance of your replies
Edited by Pizzaman19 on Sunday 30th June 12:52
However, you indicated above that you have received a "form."
What precisely have you received?
Is it a Single Justice Procedure Notice with 21 days to reply. Three options - guilty (court), guilty (no court) or not guilty.
JagLad said:
As AGT says, that speed would normally see the offer of a fixed penalty. Just to be certain, are you sure the limit was 30mph and not 20mph?
Anyway, you are where you are.
Assuming the limit was 30mph, the magistrates' guidelines suggest either a ban of up o 28 days or between four and six points. The band of "seriousness" in those guidelines covers 41 to 50mph, so your speed is almost at the top of that band. So if the court decides points are appropriate you would expect to see six imposed.
Unfortunately your mitigation, such that it is, does not hold much water. As you seem to accept, being late for an appointment does not justify speeding and since there are no default 40mph limits it is hard to understand why you believed the limit was 40mph when there were no signs denoting this. Then, of course, you do have the slight problem that 49mph is faster than 40mph!
If you do see six points imposed you will face a six month "totting up" ban. You can avoid this if you can persuade the court that you or others will face "exceptional hardship" if you are banned. If you respond to the SJPN by pleading guilty but do not want to attend court, the "Single Justice" will not ban you in your absence. Instead your case will be adjourned and you will be asked to attend court.
Will you or others face exceptional hardship if you are banned?
Thank you for your reply. Anyway, you are where you are.
Assuming the limit was 30mph, the magistrates' guidelines suggest either a ban of up o 28 days or between four and six points. The band of "seriousness" in those guidelines covers 41 to 50mph, so your speed is almost at the top of that band. So if the court decides points are appropriate you would expect to see six imposed.
Unfortunately your mitigation, such that it is, does not hold much water. As you seem to accept, being late for an appointment does not justify speeding and since there are no default 40mph limits it is hard to understand why you believed the limit was 40mph when there were no signs denoting this. Then, of course, you do have the slight problem that 49mph is faster than 40mph!
If you do see six points imposed you will face a six month "totting up" ban. You can avoid this if you can persuade the court that you or others will face "exceptional hardship" if you are banned. If you respond to the SJPN by pleading guilty but do not want to attend court, the "Single Justice" will not ban you in your absence. Instead your case will be adjourned and you will be asked to attend court.
Will you or others face exceptional hardship if you are banned?
Yes it was a 30mph not 20.
As for hardship - my family depends on my income and as I am a telecommunications engineer my job requires me to travel to sites as required around the UK in order to fix network faults. Without the ability to drive I cannot fulfil my job and will lose the income my family depends on. I also have an elderly mother that lives half an hour away. Some months ago she developed COPD and had an episode where she could not breath and I attended immediately and called the ambulance. I need to be able to get to her quickly as she may have another episode and requires my help.
I have children that I need to drive to work also. My 18 year old has no transport to get to his place of work that is awkward by public transport
What course of action should I take ?
A) Submit a guilty plea without court or
B) seek council submit a guilty plea and attend court ?
Thank you
Sheepshanks said:
49 in a 30 is bang on the fixed penalty upper limit.
Wonder why you've had an SJPN - were you late sending back earlier paperwork?
If there's no good reason for the SJPN I've seen some cases reported as being dealt with as if it was a fixed penalty (although with bonus victim surcharge added).
Thank you for your reply. No I would not late submitting the notice of intended prosecution. I’m also stumped as to why I’ve received the 21 day notice initially I received the letter stating that the offence was too serious to be dealt with by fixed penalty notice and then the 21 day notice arrived a few days later. Wonder why you've had an SJPN - were you late sending back earlier paperwork?
If there's no good reason for the SJPN I've seen some cases reported as being dealt with as if it was a fixed penalty (although with bonus victim surcharge added).
RS_MAN_CHILD said:
Attend for sure in person make a genuine plea they will most likely give you 4 or 5 points leaving you on 11.
If you plea guilty by post its likely they will ban you as having 2 not long ago convictions means you did not learn from those & that's how it will be seen & dealt with.
Turn up be genuine & remorseful will most likely give you 1 last chance (and drive carefully for the next 3-4 years to retain your licence & be a safe driver!).
Thank you for this direction. It’s part of what I needed. Should I go alone or with council?If you plea guilty by post its likely they will ban you as having 2 not long ago convictions means you did not learn from those & that's how it will be seen & dealt with.
Turn up be genuine & remorseful will most likely give you 1 last chance (and drive carefully for the next 3-4 years to retain your licence & be a safe driver!).
Sheepshanks said:
JagLad said:
RS_MAN_CHILD said:
If you plea guilty by post its likely they will ban you as having 2 not long ago convictions means you did not learn from those & that's how it will be seen & dealt with.
safe driver!).
The court will not disqualify him in his absence without first giving him the opportunity to attend.safe driver!).
agtlaw said:
Pizzaman19 said:
Thank you for your reply.
Yes it was a 30mph not 20.
As for hardship - my family depends on my income and as I am a telecommunications engineer my job requires me to travel to sites as required around the UK in order to fix network faults. Without the ability to drive I cannot fulfil my job and will lose the income my family depends on. I also have an elderly mother that lives half an hour away. Some months ago she developed COPD and had an episode where she could not breath and I attended immediately and called the ambulance. I need to be able to get to her quickly as she may have another episode and requires my help.
I have children that I need to drive to work also. My 18 year old has no transport to get to his place of work that is awkward by public transport
What course of action should I take ?
A) Submit a guilty plea without court or
B) seek counsel submit a guilty plea and attend court ?
Thank you
You have received a SJPN rather than a Summons. Yes it was a 30mph not 20.
As for hardship - my family depends on my income and as I am a telecommunications engineer my job requires me to travel to sites as required around the UK in order to fix network faults. Without the ability to drive I cannot fulfil my job and will lose the income my family depends on. I also have an elderly mother that lives half an hour away. Some months ago she developed COPD and had an episode where she could not breath and I attended immediately and called the ambulance. I need to be able to get to her quickly as she may have another episode and requires my help.
I have children that I need to drive to work also. My 18 year old has no transport to get to his place of work that is awkward by public transport
What course of action should I take ?
A) Submit a guilty plea without court or
B) seek counsel submit a guilty plea and attend court ?
Thank you
Therefore, A
evolution380 said:
Going to give my personal experience here some may be helpful / relevant but different scenarios equal different results. Also mindful give me a different bunch of magistrates on a different day I may have had the book thrown at me. I genuinely may have got lucky given my age and how I portrayed myself on the day. It was a few years ago when the banding first came in however due to severity of my speed and my salary at the time I was looking at the capped £1000 fine, disqualification and 6 points.
Naively looking back I didn’t obtain any legal advice or representation however it worked out very well for me given the circumstances.
I was caught doing 59 in a 30mph zone. I was taking someone for a test drive in my Evo who subsequently bought it.
I did however make the following mitigating circumstances / excuses whatever you want to call them.
- I had already gone past the camera van in the opposite direction, the speed changed from national speed to 30mph and I was doing the speed limit prior to entering the built up area where the camera van was positioned.
- I ‘foolishly’ accelerated into the national speed zone from the 30mph however it was no longer built up at this point. There were no pavements, houses etc and the national speed limit could be seen in the photographic evidence they had of me.
- I did reallly have to plead the hardship of disqualification and did get my employer to write me a letter stating I couldn’t fulfill my responsibilities without a driving license. They pushed and pushed on this but accepted it in the end.
- My girlfriend now wife was a full time student who lived with me and I was the sole provider so asked for leniency in the fine (no children).
I was very apologetic and whilst outlining my mitigating circumstances followed up with them not being an excuse and that I’ve learned from this experience.
The result was 6 points, no disqualification and the fine was reduced to £200. They even queried if I wished to pay this in instalments of £50 per month due to me being the sole provider.
Thank you for posting this whilst my circumstances are not the same as yours. There was no transition from national speed limit to 30 miles an hour you have given me an idea. I may have committed an offence that is an acceptable by law however the area that the offence was committed in had no houses no residences. It was not a built-up area or residential area as such minimising any potential threat of human life. It’s not as if I did it in a High Street or location where there is a dense population of human beings, the location of my offence was a full lane section of road with no inhabited dwellings and no pedestrian crossings . I understand that this is a small aspect however an important one because the danger to human life was minimisedNaively looking back I didn’t obtain any legal advice or representation however it worked out very well for me given the circumstances.
I was caught doing 59 in a 30mph zone. I was taking someone for a test drive in my Evo who subsequently bought it.
I did however make the following mitigating circumstances / excuses whatever you want to call them.
- I had already gone past the camera van in the opposite direction, the speed changed from national speed to 30mph and I was doing the speed limit prior to entering the built up area where the camera van was positioned.
- I ‘foolishly’ accelerated into the national speed zone from the 30mph however it was no longer built up at this point. There were no pavements, houses etc and the national speed limit could be seen in the photographic evidence they had of me.
- I did reallly have to plead the hardship of disqualification and did get my employer to write me a letter stating I couldn’t fulfill my responsibilities without a driving license. They pushed and pushed on this but accepted it in the end.
- My girlfriend now wife was a full time student who lived with me and I was the sole provider so asked for leniency in the fine (no children).
I was very apologetic and whilst outlining my mitigating circumstances followed up with them not being an excuse and that I’ve learned from this experience.
The result was 6 points, no disqualification and the fine was reduced to £200. They even queried if I wished to pay this in instalments of £50 per month due to me being the sole provider.
Edited by Pizzaman19 on Monday 1st July 08:34
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff