Traffic Penalty Tribunal - Advice

[Responder.First]

So I have had a Bus Gate PCN rejected
!- Hear me out...

I knew of the bus gate (its near my home) I used it to get my disabled daughter to her first GCSE exam as the main road to her school was/is closed for gas main renewal from May to August, works that did not start on time and were deferred start as they where due in April.

The other route was gridlocked when I set out to take my daughter to school some only a short distance from my home but she is autistic and suffers from anxiety, she did/would not get in the car until 10 plus minutes to the exam due to having issues with stress etc of the day. I had 10 minutes to travel but due to all the roadworks I had to go on like 1 mile detour. I woke her at 6.30am to get ready but due to her issues she took till 8.50am to be ready/ get in the car. Due to stress I drove to the school road to find the roadworks that had started late with a closure had been deployed and we could not go that way.

So my only option was sit in traffic and be 10 minutes late, I choose to use the bus gate that runs parallel to my house road going through at 8.58am and getting her to school for just after 9.04am she was signed into exam. (I did not know at this time that was not the end of the world, when I did mine I was on time each day as there was no choice, school have since told me after I raised it that they can allow so much time around 1-hour start late)

I sent details of SEN Profile and all extra support she gets etc and all this info accepting that I knew the route was a bus gate.

I was shocked and insulted when I got a reply saying knowing my daughter suffers from all these issues I should have allowed more time for the journey! Also got pages explaining the route I should have taken which I found insulting and almost discriminatory in nature given I provided prove of her diagnoses and all the special provisions at school.

I feel the council have failed allowing school road to be closed incoming during the GSCE period and also not taken into consideration her conditions and that she is disable in some ways.

Any advice as they rejected my appeal and now I have to go to traffic penalty tribunal.

Edited by Responder.First on Tuesday 25th June 16:27

[Responder.First]

randlemarcus said:

If I was them, I would have rejected your appeal as well, given you KNEW it was a bus gate. If I was you, I might have covered my plates before doing it.

Point taken I am going to get something in future, however it was 8.58am her school is a road over I was concerned about getting there and didn't get out the car or stop we pulled into the traffic jam and I took the next roundabout off to the bus gate.

[Responder.First]

GeniusOfLove said:

I have a child with autism and cerebral palsy and was very disappointed to find that speed limits, bus lanes, yellow boxes, and the rules about income tax all still apply to me no matter how much of an extra special snowflake I feel it makes me.

In other news: world does not revolve around you.

Edited by GeniusOfLove on Tuesday 25th June 16:56

When the main school road was closed during GCSEs I think allowing local residents to use a bus gate is not unreasonable as the alternative was a long detour in rush hour traffic.

When school road is open I have no issue and its once I have used the bus gate.

If they choose to close the main road to school during GCSE period was ill advised and not reasonable. This is the primary road to the school!!! This work should be carried out in school holidays. I did not make reference to any other rules not applying to me.

Edited by Responder.First on Tuesday 25th June 18:42

Edited by Responder.First on Tuesday 25th June 18:45

[Responder.First]

Tommo87 said:

Honestly, I would typically have some sympathy if your situation was unavoidable.

But as others have already said, you knew in advance and failed to plan around that known closure.

I also strongly disagree with using a disablement as a primary argument when it was clearly a secondary consideration. You were late.

No the closure had failed to go ahead, the week before so there was confusion when it was happening.

I allowed enough time it was my child who was not ready to get in the car until late.

The combination of roadworks allowed with no planning or thought to road space booking had caused massive jams and delays on the main route out of my development. Its the councils poor highways and planning of road space that is the real issue I had the same problem in the Easter break when 4 road works were allowed including a morning closure at 8am (according to the developer) that meant I couldn't get out of my road at 8am for around 30 mins. They allowed this to work on roads to be adopted but when they then pulled the second phase due to the fact staff could not get to county hall! I know this as I contacted the council who said yes we have staff who are struggling to get to work today.

The bus gate is about revenue but if I have know chance at tribunal I will pay.

[Responder.First]

Paid it at £35 thanks, I will speak to my local councilor

[Responder.First]

ChevronB19 said:

But they didn’t allow it. And you did it anyway.

I’m sorry it caused your daughter stress on an important day, but plan ahead, and don’t use special needs as an excuse or justification.

The time to have made your point to the relevant authorities was in advance. I’m glad you’ve paid up (as you should).

I don't see how I can plan ahead for a child who suffers from anxiety I got up 6.30 to get her to exam.

Not an issue I had I hate being late places I would get up and on but I don't have her complex needs. I should not have to allow 20-30 minutes to travel to school 1/4 mile away, when there are no road works traffic does not present an issue.

[Responder.First]

Rufus Stone said:

400 yards. Walk.

She wouldn't walk, more than 400 yards, I checked google maps 0.6mile she normally walks but the stress and anxiety meant she would not.


Via car using council route its 1.4m miles.

From mine to school road its 0.6m school road open.

[Responder.First]

nordboy said:

I'm with most of the others, you knew you could/ would be fined, did it anyway.

It would have been a bonus to you if they'd let you off, rather than you expecting them to let you off because of the circumstances.

If they had let you off, where do they draw the line? I'd imagine loads of people would then use the gates, and come up with a story or use their kids disabilities as an excuse (not saying the OP did this), we all know how people abuse the disability system at the detriment of the more genuine users.

And I hope that exam and the rest of her exams went well? It's a really stressful time for the kids.

Bus Gate fines are about cash generation, this one has raised over £1m, it was a through road until a few years ago.

I got one on call during a marathon in a city centre and there was a diversion in place, I still had to go through appeal and prove ambulance service call and they City Council admitted there was a closure and diversion in place on that day as it was a closed circuit!

Also note the top line of the response (Our deepest sympathy in this difficult time), they can't even read what they sent me!

Unless they are referring to the one fatality we had as it was 30 degrees!

Edited by Responder.First on Thursday 27th June 12:43

[Responder.First]

dundarach said:

I find it staggering you've the nerve to come on and seek validation!

Ok well thank you for your contribution

Lets hope they don't shut roads around where you live and give you one gridlocked way out of your area.

Its that bad I am considering moving, if I do then my area is struggling for CFRs and they will lose me as due to the shocking way the council is managing roads around my area.

If I was in a trust vehicle I could have sailed through no challenge, crews are using all the bus gates as a cut through when not on calls.

[Responder.First]

ChevronB19 said:

You weren’t though. You were on personal business. As before, I’m glad you’ve paid the fine, and I hope your daughter’s exam went well.

If other crews are using bus gates as a cut through whilst not on a call, they should be reported. Have you done that?

But you are still coming across as thinking you should have special treatment. Chase it up with the council by all means, but I think the responses here (including from me) should give you a general indication as to what the result will be.

I think shutting the school access road before the summer holidays and during the exam period was unreasonable and not well thought out, there has been significant backlash, they could have opened the bus gate during the period to ease the issues, schools had massive issues with traffic and delays, school trips have been cancelled as well.

I have accepted the fine and paid the reduced amount. The road space booking is not well managed a number of adoption works started that ran concurrently, these have been pulled when council staff said they could not get to work!

Added to which- There were a number of delays from the garboard in starting these works and the only knew as the signage kept getting changed last minute.

Clearly there is a an issue, the bus that uses this route does not visit the school.

I expect the council to work for the people, if they allow 2 out of 3 routes to have partial or full closures then they need to apply a TTRO to the bus gate and allow traffic through, to allow flow. Gridlock and delays is not good for people, the environment and the economy.


Why would I shop NHS staff who do a difficult job is a challenging environment!

Edited by Responder.First on Thursday 27th June 13:43

Edited by Responder.First on Thursday 27th June 13:50

[Responder.First]

Jordie Barretts sock said:

This absolutely reeks of entitlement.

You have just had a wake up call and reality check. No matter how much you whine and complain, you've been caught bang to rights. Just take responsibility for your own actions and stop looking for someone else to take responsibility for your life.

I said yesterday I had done so and paid for it, not sure why people keep going on, I have paid the lower fine.

Some people on here seem to bang on and on even when I have conceded.

I placed it on here got very little support and was advised to accept it and pay it which I did. I was considering a Tribunal but I was advised against it and accept that fact, yesterday when settling the matter.

I have one 2/3 of my appeals this year.

Edited by Responder.First on Thursday 27th June 14:03

[Responder.First]

ChevronB19 said:

Oh, I dunno, maybe because they are breaking the law? As said, if you don’t agree with it, complain, but your post has gone from outrage and justification to another level, including o/t in what seems some desperate foot stamping.

BiL is a paramedic by the way, and he wouldn’t dream of using his status to avoid laws that apply to others.

Not sure where you have gotten that, I said trust vehicles use the bus gate when not on calls, never mentioned ambulance service when appealing this ticket, as I was taking a child to an exam.

[Responder.First]

When you say o/t - are you referring to the City when I was on duty and a race official sent me down a bus gate as the (non bus gate end was closed to traffic) get to were I was asked to attend by the ambulance service? This was early hours of a Sunday, no buses were running it was closed, in the video there is a race official directing me, you can see them.

[Responder.First]

t.boydy said:

But you were on duty then and you were instructed to go down...

How is that relevant to your situation now?

Seriously, give it up as a bad job and chalk it down to experience

Tom

No I thought the Chevron was referring to the city one. That one was sorted at appeal.

The local council one was all me, never claimed it was anything to do with anyone else.

[Responder.First]

InitialDave said:

OP, can I seek some clarification?

You say these roadworks were delayed/rescheduled.

Did they originally say that while the roadworks were being carried out, they would suspend the bus gate to give an alternate route? But then failed to reschedule the bus gate suspension to align with the new roadworks date?

If so, no, it's not unreasonable for you to have thought you were allowed to use the bus gate during the roadworks.

If you're just inventing your own reason why they "should" let you use the bus gate, forget it, it's basically fantasy at that point.

Ultimately, you're not in any real trouble with anyone, no points or anything, it's a relatively nominal fine, and you're best to just move on.

You achieved an actually important objective (getting your daughter to an important exam on time), and all it cost you is £35. I could live with that. Let them bleat about how you're not "allowed" to use the bus gate all they like, it turns out you are... for a fee.

No they never said that they would relax the bus gate during the works being on however they pulled the adoption roadworks as they realised when the council staff could not get to work and the gridlock that maybe they had some duty to manage road space bookings.

Bus Gate are about revenue in my opinion, as you say you can use one legally for a fee £35 in this case!