Advice Please - Speeding Ticket

[twpbugger]

Hello guys, thought i would turn to you for advice.

I recently had a court summons through the post for not responding to a speeding fine back in August 2009 - However, I never actually received the original speeding fine back in August - I have tried explaining this to the court but seem to have no luck.

It seems absolutely ridicilous that I am going to receive a £60 fine, plus additional court costs when I never received the fine in the 1st place - Does anyone have advice as to how I can approach this??

[TIPPER]

Dunno, you could go to court and tell the magistrates your tale but I doubt they'll let you off the fine.
Pay the speeding fine and if you have the time go to court. Personally I wouldn't bother - its probably an absolute offence (ie no real defence - you either did or didn't pay the fine). Lot of effort over £60 to be honest.
Probably worth asking in the 'speed,plod and law' forum.

[mrssumner]

A similar thing happened to me a couple of years ago. Have a look at http://www.pepipoo.com/.

Basically, you should have received an NIP (notice of intended prosecution) within two weeks of the offence, if it's a privately registered car. If you haven't, they can't prosecute for speeding.

Edited by mrssumner on Monday 1st February 11:40

[roger.daltrey]

If you've had this notice from Warwickshire Constab - give them a call to clarify.

I don't think they are quite on the ball with their admin procedures, and seem to send these out all the time without doing proper checks.

I have personal experience of this (not me though) and after much finger pointing, a grovelling apology from them eventually came.

[saaby93]

Are you sure it wasnt the s172 ( name the driver) that you havent received/replied in which case its 6 points

[Mr Darcy]

I am in court for the same thing soon. Its not a 60 pound fine but more liklely about 500-700 plus 6 pts. See the katie price thread in SP&L.

[twpbugger]

saaby93 said:

Are you sure it wasnt the s172 ( name the driver) that you havent received/replied in which case its 6 points

Yes, this is part of the issue - The S172 - But no documents at all have been received - I do not understand how they can issue with 6 points, court costs etc when no documentation was originally received.

However, I went to receive legal advice and I was informed that I will more than likely end up in court and have a minimum of 6 points and a substantial fine - This seems absolutely ridicilous to me, clean licence for 10 years - I explained the situation & said i was happy to take the points & £60 fine but this is no longer an option - What a waste of tax payers money taking this to court when I have accepted the guilt on receiving the summons - Why not just end it there with the fine & 3 points!!

[saaby93]

You need to check out all the posts about this in SP&L

Not letting them know who was driving is a much more serious offence than breaking the limit by a few mph.

I'll put a cross post
but what stage are you at allegedly?

[twpbugger]

The posiiton as it stands:

Could not name the driver if the documents were never received.

At the moment, my mother in law is about to fill in the "mitigating circumstances" section on the summons form and explain the situation which is:

She pleads not guilty to the offence as the original documentation was never received, but also goes on to state that her son in law (thats me) was the driver at the time of the offence back in August.

That is all we can do at present i suppose - The case is due in court March 10th

[saaby93]

twpbugger said:

but also goes on to state that her son in law (thats me) was the driver at the time of the offence back in August.

I'm rapidly losing the plot on all this s172 stuff but does she still need to do that since theyre merely arguing now about whether the s172 was received

[twpbugger]

OK, let me explain from the beginning:

A court summons turned up on my mother in laws doorstep a couple of weeks ago regarding a speeding ticket back in August 2009 which we never received - The reasons for going to court are as follows:

1. Excessive speed in a 30mph ( Caught at 39mph)
2. Failure to provide details of the driver

As stated, we did not receive the original document, therefore have pleaded not guilty to both sections & explained that we can confirm on receipt of the summons that I was the driver but could not state this back in August as no documentation had been received.

[saaby93]

Something used to time out if they hadn't got it to you within 14 days but after a few recent posts I now have no idea whether it's the s172 or the NIP.
See what you can make of this
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

Edited by saaby93 on Friday 5th February 12:41

[Red Devil]

OP - you keep talking about a speeding ticket. I am guessing you triggered a camera or were caught by a radar gun so presumably you mean a Notice of Intended Prosecution.

Have a look at this
http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t3...
If possible, do so before responding to the summons.

[Dwight VanDriver]

Trying to make sense of this one and at the moment failing miserably.

First look at the system

Flash

NOIP and 172 name Driver sent out to REG KEEPER. NOIP must be within 15 days of offence otherwise proceedings debarred for speeding offence . 172 has no time limit but MUST BE RETURNED within 28 days otherwise offence . Summons.

Reg Keeper either accepts and names himself as driver or returns form naming driver.
If applicable Conditional offer sent out £60/3 points. (Speed within ACPO Guidelines for this)

If Reg Keeper nominates some else as driver, NOIP (now without time limit) and 172 sent to that person 28 day return applies. That person names self as driver Conditional Offer applies.

So who was the Reg Keeper in August 2009 - MIL or poster?

Has Reg keeper received any prior paperwork?

In whose name are the two summons?

But poster states neither him or MIL have received anything previously to offence which he will admit to in August 2009. On the summons will be 'DATE iNFORMATION LAID' If this is more than 6 months after date of offence - out of time. Date of summons can be later that 6 months if Information laid in time.

In this case Prosecution have sent two summons - one for speeding, one for failing to name. They cannot go ahead with the summons for speeding as they do not have evidence as to who the driver was because 172 not returned signed admission. Or, they are hoping for an admission at Court. They will have to prove that NOIP sent out in time, if they have a named driver for the speeding offence as well as 172 Request has been served and not returned in time limit.

Poster will have to prove that neither document was received and convince the Mags accordingly.

Whilst there seems to be provision for making a statutory declaration to nulify a FPN where it has been registered as a fine without the offender being aware FPN issued I cannot see any similar procedure in this case other than facts being presented at Court in a Not Guilty plea.

dvd

[streaky]

Dwight VanDriver said:

Poster will have to prove that neither document was received and convince the Mags accordingly.

Ah. The old, "Prove a negative" trick. Good work if you can do it! - Streaky

[Red Devil]

streaky said:

Dwight VanDriver said:

Poster will have to prove that neither document was received and convince the Mags accordingly.

Ah. The old, "Prove a negative" trick. Good work if you can do it! - Streaky

That's what a Statutory Declaration is for. It's not proof but is persuasive. You risk a lot by making a false one.