SCHOOL NEAR MISS
Discussion
Took the griff on the school run the other day, driving along behind a Saab, both doing about 15-20 mph. Young kid, probably about five, runs across the road in front of the Saab, which instantly emergency-stops. Yeah, all the parent's fault, etc. But if the Saab had been doing 30 mph the kid would have been seriously injured or worse. The speed limit? 30 mph. There's a lesson there somewhere...
"Kids will be kids, you can't be on top of them 100% as a parent. " No, but you can teach them about road safety. I certainly was taught at a very early age not to cross the road without looking. I would suspect the parent was happily chatting and didn't keep an eye on their child.
Well done to both drivers. Perhaps mummy or daddy will now realise to teach their child, or am I living in a fantasy world.
Well done to both drivers. Perhaps mummy or daddy will now realise to teach their child, or am I living in a fantasy world.
Not being a parent, I don't know what the standard of road safety training is in schools these days, but when I was at school, as far back as I can remember, we were continually hammered with road safety and the 'green cross code' man etc.
I also seem to remember that the police used to come and visit the schools on a regular basis for road safety training.
Presumably they still do this today?
I don't know what the accident rate is outside / near schools these days but I suspect, sadly, that it is higher than 20 years ago.
As for speed limits, I think that they should be set at 20 or less near schools and enforced - yes it would be annoying, but less annoying than having a 5 year old across your bonnet.
I also seem to remember that the police used to come and visit the schools on a regular basis for road safety training.
Presumably they still do this today?
I don't know what the accident rate is outside / near schools these days but I suspect, sadly, that it is higher than 20 years ago.
As for speed limits, I think that they should be set at 20 or less near schools and enforced - yes it would be annoying, but less annoying than having a 5 year old across your bonnet.
I agree with the speed limit comment Johnny (but with time restrictions, some schools are on main carageways and 11.00pm more than 20 would be fine).
Anyway... Road safety lessons, whilst I am sure are still taught in schools, it is the parents reponsibility to teach it prior to school. I was taught to swim at the age of 3 why, because there is a canal opposite my parents house. As soon as I could walk I was on reins (you can buy these from mothercare etc.) and taught road saftey long before I went to school.
Anyway... Road safety lessons, whilst I am sure are still taught in schools, it is the parents reponsibility to teach it prior to school. I was taught to swim at the age of 3 why, because there is a canal opposite my parents house. As soon as I could walk I was on reins (you can buy these from mothercare etc.) and taught road saftey long before I went to school.
Dont know about anyone else, but I do quite a lot of M25 driving - although the variable speeds are a pain, they do actually make a small improvement.
Maybe something like enforced lowering of speed limits around accident areas such as schools. Put a camera there, and drop the speed to 20 when the school is busy / kicking out.
Most people wont mind (they are children) and it doesnt need to be like that all of the time - i.e. school holidays and it is the normal speed limit - 30MPH....
Expensive, but might help in areas such as that.
Cheers,
Paul
Maybe something like enforced lowering of speed limits around accident areas such as schools. Put a camera there, and drop the speed to 20 when the school is busy / kicking out.
Most people wont mind (they are children) and it doesnt need to be like that all of the time - i.e. school holidays and it is the normal speed limit - 30MPH....
Expensive, but might help in areas such as that.
Cheers,
Paul
Children, If you haven’t got any then you are not qualified to blame them!
Most of the time they’re in a dream world, heads full of Thomas the Tank Engine and Steps. Below the age of 5 and 6 you cannot be sure what they will do next. If they’re chasing a dog, cat or even a stray marble then nothing else counts, nothing else is important – no matter what the danger, no matter what you tell them. They cannot conceive what it could be like to be hit by a car at 20, 30 or 40+ mph. Maybe we should tie them up or chain them to a fence if there is a road in sight?
A driver knows what the result would be if they hit a child at 20, 30, 40+ mph - serious injury or death. If drivers don’t understand this then I would ask who is acting with the least amount of consciousness, the child or the driver? So, responsibility belongs, I believe, with the driver rather than the Child.
I’ve got two Children, 7 and 4. I make a point of telling them about road safety. We live on a quiet road (residents only) but there is a blind spot at the end of my drive; children can’t see cars and drivers can’t see children – it frightens the hell out of me! No matter how much I tell them about the danger, I cannot be certain that they won’t run off the drive. I’ve told them, told them and told them again but if, just if, I was distracted and one of the kids ran off the drive... Would it be my fault? I know I would blame myself but if the driver was behaving like an adult instead of a child then it might only be a broken leg, instead of a broken NECK!
So, for those of you that think it is the child’s fault or the parent’s fault, GROW UP!
Edited by macca on Saturday 17th November 21:21
Most of the time they’re in a dream world, heads full of Thomas the Tank Engine and Steps. Below the age of 5 and 6 you cannot be sure what they will do next. If they’re chasing a dog, cat or even a stray marble then nothing else counts, nothing else is important – no matter what the danger, no matter what you tell them. They cannot conceive what it could be like to be hit by a car at 20, 30 or 40+ mph. Maybe we should tie them up or chain them to a fence if there is a road in sight?
A driver knows what the result would be if they hit a child at 20, 30, 40+ mph - serious injury or death. If drivers don’t understand this then I would ask who is acting with the least amount of consciousness, the child or the driver? So, responsibility belongs, I believe, with the driver rather than the Child.
I’ve got two Children, 7 and 4. I make a point of telling them about road safety. We live on a quiet road (residents only) but there is a blind spot at the end of my drive; children can’t see cars and drivers can’t see children – it frightens the hell out of me! No matter how much I tell them about the danger, I cannot be certain that they won’t run off the drive. I’ve told them, told them and told them again but if, just if, I was distracted and one of the kids ran off the drive... Would it be my fault? I know I would blame myself but if the driver was behaving like an adult instead of a child then it might only be a broken leg, instead of a broken NECK!
So, for those of you that think it is the child’s fault or the parent’s fault, GROW UP!
Edited by macca on Saturday 17th November 21:21
Sorry Macca, Have to disagree. I used to pass two primary schools every day. I crawled past keeping my eyes open for the possibility of kids running out. I slow right down to 15 to 20mph. The school run cars parked (often illegally) make the journey even harder as you cannot see to the pavement. If a child runs out and the driver cannot see it till its too late you cannot possibly blame them for the accident. We neither have X-ray glasses nor can we all sit in a long queue stationary till 9:10 and all the kids are at their desks.
Teaching is the key... I point out again that there is no way my mother would let me "play" by the side of a road. The solution is simple you have reins for very young or hold their hand for the slightly older. As for your drive may I suggest that you buy a set of gates which will stop a child running out (they would have to stop to open it)
I was a teacher for over 9 years, of senior children/young adults, and nothing was more annoying than talking to parents that thought they played no role in their childs education.
I agree that some drivers are idiots when it comes to driving near schools, unfortunatly quite a lot of them are the parents of the children going to that school.
Teaching is the key... I point out again that there is no way my mother would let me "play" by the side of a road. The solution is simple you have reins for very young or hold their hand for the slightly older. As for your drive may I suggest that you buy a set of gates which will stop a child running out (they would have to stop to open it)
I was a teacher for over 9 years, of senior children/young adults, and nothing was more annoying than talking to parents that thought they played no role in their childs education.
I agree that some drivers are idiots when it comes to driving near schools, unfortunatly quite a lot of them are the parents of the children going to that school.
My local council (North Ayrshire) has just come up with an incredibly brainy idea! It makes you wonder what took them so bloody long! Over the last couple of months they have made the roads, EVERY road, main roads, residential streets etc, into a fixed 20mph speed limit, and then backed it up with the help of Strathclyde Police's Speed Camera's (At last, somewhere sensible to put them). Now, this is all well and good but, at 3 in the morning poodling along at 25 and receiving a couteous little flash is annoying, but it makes you think about your speed when you drive by in the morning!
It's not a be all and end all solution, but it's a start! Keep the speed down a touch, and a btoken neck may just only be a broken leg!
This is a problem for Parents, Teachers and Drivers alike!!!
It's not a be all and end all solution, but it's a start! Keep the speed down a touch, and a btoken neck may just only be a broken leg!
This is a problem for Parents, Teachers and Drivers alike!!!
quote:
Children, If you haven’t got any then you are not qualified to blame them!
Most of the time they’re in a dream world, heads full of Thomas the Tank Engine and Steps. Below the age of 5 and 6 you cannot be sure what they will do next. If they’re chasing a dog, cat or even a stray marble then nothing else counts, nothing else is important – no matter what the danger, no matter what you tell them. They cannot conceive what it could be like to be hit by a car at 20, 30 or 40+ mph.
So, for those of you that think it is the child’s fault or the parent’s fault, GROW UP!
macca, an absolute top-notch post.
Its not so much that they ignore or are oblivious to danger, its just that at that age their can't multitask. If they chase that marble then nothing else exists.
When my four year old son wakes up from a bad dream, he carries on screaming because he does not realise that he is awake - his vivid imagination still sees him in his dream. Sometimes it is kind to slap him so he realises he is awake - and safe.
Mind you, talking of one-track minds and looking at us lot of red-blooded males - where's the difference?!?
Edited by WalterU on Sunday 18th November 02:41
tvradict , its good to hear that councils are at least listening to public ideas. However I would be concerned that they have done this for the right reason. Is it to increase safety around schools, or to increase revenue? Variable speed limits and cameras are not expensive/hard to enforce yet at 3am to be flashed (and presumably have the fines and points) sounds to me like "lets raise lots of money"
Re: Kids and multitasking. Children can't, but parents can. The question has got to be asked about where the marble came from, was the parent paying attention to the child and when the marble ran out into the road, why was the parent not holding the child back.
Can I remind parents that you are volunteers, you chose to have a child and accepted the responsibility and change in lifestyle that goes with it. A classic type of bad parenting that I see every time I go to the supermarket: A child is misbehaving, sulking, screaming, shouting etc. What does the parent do... gives the child sweets or similar to "shut them up". What the parent doesn't realise that they have just rewarded bad behaviour. Don’t forget I have seen the consequences of poor parenting 10 years down the line, when “little Jimmy” is no longer little and is a “pain in the @rse”.
I often get fed up of this "nanny state" and cotton wool mentality to excuse poor parenting. If a dog ran out in front of a car, the question "why was the dog not on a leash?" would be asked. If a child of 4 runs out into the street "why was the driver not observant enough?" is asked, immediately blaming the driver for the same situation.
I am not trying to defend drivers that drive like tw@ts around schools. However neither can I accept that Parents are absolved from any responsibility because a child has a mind of its own.
Re: Kids and multitasking. Children can't, but parents can. The question has got to be asked about where the marble came from, was the parent paying attention to the child and when the marble ran out into the road, why was the parent not holding the child back.
Can I remind parents that you are volunteers, you chose to have a child and accepted the responsibility and change in lifestyle that goes with it. A classic type of bad parenting that I see every time I go to the supermarket: A child is misbehaving, sulking, screaming, shouting etc. What does the parent do... gives the child sweets or similar to "shut them up". What the parent doesn't realise that they have just rewarded bad behaviour. Don’t forget I have seen the consequences of poor parenting 10 years down the line, when “little Jimmy” is no longer little and is a “pain in the @rse”.
I often get fed up of this "nanny state" and cotton wool mentality to excuse poor parenting. If a dog ran out in front of a car, the question "why was the dog not on a leash?" would be asked. If a child of 4 runs out into the street "why was the driver not observant enough?" is asked, immediately blaming the driver for the same situation.
I am not trying to defend drivers that drive like tw@ts around schools. However neither can I accept that Parents are absolved from any responsibility because a child has a mind of its own.
Smeagol,
Fair play to you when driving at 15mph-20mph outside Schools, it’s unlikely that you’re going to kill a child. Nobody is going to blame you if a child runs out on you.
Indeed, it’s never the driver’s fault that the child runs out. However, the driver has a major influence on how events conclude:
10mph: cuts and bruises
20mph: broken bone
30mph: several broken bones
40mph: paralysis or death
If there are parked cars and vision is obscured then the ‘speed limit’ may actually be too fast for the conditions – slow down. If cars are parked illegally… well that’s an irresponsible DRIVER (parent or not).
As you drive by and witness irresponsible parents not controlling their children, try standing at the side of the road and see how many drivers are driving irresponsibly and may not be able to control their car if a child runs out.
Some parents could be more aware of their children’s actions, but short of tying them up there are no guarantees. The parent will nevertheless, blame themselves but ultimately, it’s the driver that has the last word!
Fair play to you when driving at 15mph-20mph outside Schools, it’s unlikely that you’re going to kill a child. Nobody is going to blame you if a child runs out on you.
Indeed, it’s never the driver’s fault that the child runs out. However, the driver has a major influence on how events conclude:
10mph: cuts and bruises
20mph: broken bone
30mph: several broken bones
40mph: paralysis or death
If there are parked cars and vision is obscured then the ‘speed limit’ may actually be too fast for the conditions – slow down. If cars are parked illegally… well that’s an irresponsible DRIVER (parent or not).
As you drive by and witness irresponsible parents not controlling their children, try standing at the side of the road and see how many drivers are driving irresponsibly and may not be able to control their car if a child runs out.
Some parents could be more aware of their children’s actions, but short of tying them up there are no guarantees. The parent will nevertheless, blame themselves but ultimately, it’s the driver that has the last word!
quote:
Smeagol,
Fair play to you when driving at 15mph-20mph outside Schools, it’s unlikely that you’re going to kill a child. Nobody is going to blame you if a child runs out on you.
Indeed, it’s never the driver’s fault that the child runs out. However, the driver has a major influence on how events conclude:
10mph: cuts and bruises
20mph: broken bone
30mph: several broken bones
40mph: paralysis or death
If there are parked cars and vision is obscured then the ‘speed limit’ may actually be too fast for the conditions – slow down. If cars are parked illegally… well that’s an irresponsible DRIVER (parent or not).
As you drive by and witness irresponsible parents not controlling their children, try standing at the side of the road and see how many drivers are driving irresponsibly and may not be able to control their car if a child runs out.
Some parents could be more aware of their children’s actions, but short of tying them up there are no guarantees. The parent will nevertheless, blame themselves but ultimately, it’s the driver that has the last word!
macca, such a fantastic post, I have to quote it all.
If people park irresponsibly, then as a good driver, you have to take that into account - although you are perfectly entitled to blow your top and kick ass. But that cannot be an excuse for the driver driving past to behave irresponsibly as well. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Smeagol, didn't you have kids?? is it that long ago? I can tell you as a parent that you're on a hiding to nothing. Do you very slowly and gently start allowing your 4 or 5 year-old a little more leaway, or do you hang onto his hand all the time? I can tell you that I am trying this tightrope act at the moment. I give him more leeway, but I watch him (sureptitously) like a hawk. It gives me the willies because I know damned well that my son is capable of such lightning movement that in some cases I would not get to him in time.
The german highway code law no. 1 (don't ask me about the english highway code!) says:
a driver must drive in such a way that accidents do not happen.
That is very harsh, but there is wisdom behind it. If you drive 40-50 where you should be driving 20 and have an unavoidable accident (by unavoidable I mean an accident that would have happened at ANY speed) and you kill someone you wouldn't have killed if you'd been doing 20 (and not 40-50), then that is just very bad driving.
It is very bad driving because a situation like that is forseeable.
If you're doing 90 on a motorway and someone jumps off a bridge and into your path, and you kill him, then I will be the last to blame you. That is not forseeable, and you can't crawl around at 10 mph all your life waiting for the unforseeable to happen.
God help you though if it does.
A friend of mine was driving along the autobahn being overtaken when someone on a bike doing around 270 kmh crashed into the back of the car overtaking him
(death wish?!?). The biker was dead instantly. The bike passenger flew about 50 feet into the air, landed 5 yards in front of my friend. My friend saw none of the unfolding drama, just a human being land 5 yards in front of him. He drove over the man, killing him instantly. To this day, 30 years on, he has nightmares about it.
Rgds, WalterU
Absolutly right Hertsbiker, couldn't agree more.
Walter, no I don't have kids, and don't want them at the moment because of the points you and I have raised. I don't wish to take on that kind of responsibility and you have my condolencies.
I happen to like most German highway code, as it seems to be written by people with brains rather than idiots. Germany has strict rules for town and then relax them to unlimited on safer stretchs of autobahn. They also enforce the law strictly eg middle lane drivers are pulled etc.
The sad thing in the UK is that the worst drivers tend not to be caught. Eg the 40mph tw@t that does 40mph everywhere regardless of road so everyone is queued behind them on National speed limits and then races off at 40mph outside schools. Those are the kind of people that should have their licences removed and told to evolve into a better lifeform.
Certainly speed cameras should be moved so that these kind of drivers are caught.
Walter, no I don't have kids, and don't want them at the moment because of the points you and I have raised. I don't wish to take on that kind of responsibility and you have my condolencies.
I happen to like most German highway code, as it seems to be written by people with brains rather than idiots. Germany has strict rules for town and then relax them to unlimited on safer stretchs of autobahn. They also enforce the law strictly eg middle lane drivers are pulled etc.
The sad thing in the UK is that the worst drivers tend not to be caught. Eg the 40mph tw@t that does 40mph everywhere regardless of road so everyone is queued behind them on National speed limits and then races off at 40mph outside schools. Those are the kind of people that should have their licences removed and told to evolve into a better lifeform.
Certainly speed cameras should be moved so that these kind of drivers are caught.
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