RE: Speed Doesn't Kill
Friday 28th September 2001
Speed Doesn't Kill
Poor driving standards are to blame says advanced driving instructor
Discussion
I think most rational and informed people have come to the conclusion that it is only improved driver training that will reduce road accidents.
Unfortunately this means that the very people who continually winge about speed will find themselves in the spotlight, and will have to invest money in their own skills.
From my point of view I would happily invest in an approved recognised scheme, as it would mean those people who have no interest in driving, and therefore pay the least attention when driving are likely to be put off.
I think Clarkson said 'If you fail your driving test more than twice, face it your not meant to be driving. Driving is a privilege not a right'... or something like that.
Fair play to this Oliver bloke I'd vote for him....
Not so sure I passed on the third attempt. (nervous when taking tests). I agree there should be a limit of say 5 but some of the worse drivers I know passed First time. (I think they believed they knew it all).
Passing the test really only tests whether or not your safe to learn by yourself. In my first week of full licence I had a t**ser jump a red light whilst I was crossing the junction on green. Missed them by a fraction, that taught me that I was not immune!
I believe that there should be a "probation period" after passing a test. Where you are limited to the cars you can drive. I taught a student with a rich daddy that bought him a SLK Merc when he passed the test and yes within a month he had totalled it.
Nervous of tests is one thing, but surely we all know drivers who are completely incompetent.
Two left feet, inability to judge speed and distance, blind as a bat and won't wear the specs, total ignorance of the Highway Code, reaction time of a sloth, belly so big the steering wheel is embedded. Perm any combination; they are out there mixing it with the rest of us.
In this day and age there ought to be some scientific means of ensuring that someone is physically and mentally capable of safely controlling a vehicle, before you even start on the specific driving skills.
If someone takes forever to learn the necessary co-ordination of controls, and at best their degree of competence can be described as adequate, what is the chance that in a stressful situation they will lose the plot altogether?
Not PC? Nope, 'fraid not. We are not all born equal.
I agree about the probation period. Something along the lines of the limits set on bikers, with restrictions by power output.
How about simulator training, with scenarios like red light jumpers, dozy gits who indicate then don't turn, drunk drivers, boy racers etc etc so trainees get a real feel for the hazards they face. Throw a few errant pedestrians and cyclists in there are well, and some nasty weather conditions. Much better for learners to have simulated accidents than to potter about mollycoddled by instructors, taught specific manoeuvres to get through the test, then left to fend for themselves as soon as they pass.
Edited by philshort on Saturday 29th September 01:07
Counldn't agree more.
If up to me there would be test retakes every 5 years. The test would include night drive, motorway and skidpan. Computerised coordination tests similar to the RAF selection for aircrew might not be a bad idea as well.
So after all that imagine my comments when the radio in our town sponsored by the local council says SPEED KILLS.... 
Building a simulator as practice/observation enhacer would not be that hard. We have motor racing computer games that simulate ice/wet weather and a "normal" driving simulator could be built with this kind of technology. It would not have to tilt or shake as it would be an observation thing. Most modern PCs could cope with it.
Don, you were obviously impressed by your first Advanced Driving lesson. I would be interested to know what type of car you used, and which issues impressed or surprised you.
I bought the IAM Manual and Roadcraft (the Police guide), and quite honestly I don't think I would have a snowball's chance in hell of passing the IAM test.
Both books make a lot of sense generally, but there are a number of 'rules' which I believe are questionable, and potentially dangerous.
IAM isn't hard, it's just a case of getting rid of silly habits and observation more than anything. The thing I found hardest was not braking while changing gear (with a bunch of traffic waiting to pile into my rear end).
I'm told the ROSPA examinations are more thorough than IAM ... I might do some in the future.
Trefor/.
(IAMed recently)
I grew up driving ships that walking twice around the deck was a kilometre. They didn't have brakes and would take a mile to stop (depending on what you hit of course). Generally other ships within about 3 miles would be considered as a "close-quarters" situation. With this background thinking ahead and anticipation was essential along with total awareness of everything that was going on around the ship. I find no difficulty in looking far beyond the bumper of the car in front, using reflections in shop windows, looking under buses/trucks, etc. However you see so many drivers that clearly do not see anything other than the car immediately in front. As for the 2 second rule (3 in the wet), leave this much gap at 50 mph and 3 cars will be in there. When I drive an automatic car I use left foot braking to reduce reaction times and simply stay alert.
Clive Reed
Zertec Limited
info@zertec.co.uk
www.zertec.co.uk
I totally agree with most of the comment about driver standards and driver training and would add that some of what is contained in roadcraft is now a bit outdated really, perhaps it wants a revamp! In addition the debate on driver training versus control measures has many parallels in industrial safety. For example in the UK all power presses require interlocking guarding to physically prevent the insertion of hands or other body parts during opperation. The only people who need training under the legislation are those who change tools. In contraast in Japan open presses are permissable, however constant training and retraining for opperators is mandatory with very stiff penalties for non compliance. The Japanese have fewer accidents than the UK with similar equipment. I Know it was a bit long winded but it does support the argument.
it seems widely acknowledged that driver training is the way to go, so how about the govt introducing some financial inctentive towards driver training, say subsidised insurance for drivers having passed iam tests, whatever.
the subsidies would be offset somewhat by the reduction in costs due to accidents on the roads.
the fact that few insurance co's fully recognise advance driver training is scandalous. recent quote iam 0% reduction, pass plus 30%! dont get me wrong i think pass plus is an excellent idea, but this is ridiculous.
the subsidies would be offset somewhat by the reduction in costs due to accidents on the roads.
the fact that few insurance co's fully recognise advance driver training is scandalous. recent quote iam 0% reduction, pass plus 30%! dont get me wrong i think pass plus is an excellent idea, but this is ridiculous.
quote:
Don, you were obviously impressed by your first Advanced Driving lesson. I would be interested to know what type of car you used, and which issues impressed or surprised you.
I bought the IAM Manual and Roadcraft (the Police guide), and quite honestly I don't think I would have a snowball's chance in hell of passing the IAM test.
Both books make a lot of sense generally, but there are a number of 'rules' which I believe are questionable, and potentially dangerous.
McNab. Sorry it took me a while to spot your post!
For my first lesson I used my Boxster S. For my second I used my TVR Chimaera. Largely I will stick with the Porsche for the Advanced Driving stuff for various pragmatic reasons nothing to do with the cars.
The lesson *was* very impressive. But genuinely as I practice the "System Of Car Control" and the observation techniques it does seem to be getting easier...although at the moment I'm still constantly chiding myself at a goodly number of "mistakes".
At least I know I made them!
I'll let you know how I'm getting on when I get assessed again in a few weeks time.
As to which issues:
Observation impressed me definitely - the bloke who "observed" me saw more information in the same view of the road. There's a trick to that which can be learnt. So I'm doing that.
The bit I'm finding hardest is not changing gear whilst braking - its a symptom of late-braking (fun, I know!). Its easy to get the first bit done...not braking and changing gear at the same time - but then what happens is you find yourself changing gear IN the hazard! No blo*dy good either.
Ahh. I'll get there in the end. And I'm sure *you* could too if you want to.
Dom, as you know I have just sent off the stuff for IAM and interested in your posts. Whats this about not changing gear and braking? I cannot work out how on earth you do it without
a) Revving the b*****ks off the car (with my car the turbo would kick in and I would increase speed! )
or is it that you brake first then pick the right gear?
Whats to stop the car from stalling, apart from clutch in and if your clutch is in you may as well change gear.
a) Revving the b*****ks off the car (with my car the turbo would kick in and I would increase speed! )
or is it that you brake first then pick the right gear?
Whats to stop the car from stalling, apart from clutch in and if your clutch is in you may as well change gear.
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