Driving Carelessly/Offroad, Beware
Discussion
Here is the new legislation I referred to yesterday with regard to the new Act I had briefly read a week or two ago.
Police Reform Act 2002 Section 59 Not Yet in Force
There is confusion about the commencement of the provisions of Section 59 above. The powers contained in Section 59 are not yet in force.
This means that there is no power as yet to stop, seize and remove a motor vehicle/s when they are being driven off road contrary to Section 34 Road Traffic Act 1988, or on a Road or other place without due care and attention (careless driving), contrary to Section 3 Road Traffic Act 1988
The regulation making powers attached to this section have been brought into force (from October 2002) and it is intended that regulations will be drawn up to support the new powers in Section 59.
The new Police Powers under Section 59 will not be exercisable until the new regulations are in force. It is anticipated that this may happen early next year. The date of commencement will be notified in due course.
The Police Reform Act 2002, became law in October 2002
So as you now see, although I cannot tell you yet how this will work procedurally, it would appear that the likes of Mel stand to lose out big time if they are caught offroading where they should not.
Everyone else stands to lose big time if they are caught driving carelessly ANYWHERE(virtually)
I have heard that these powers will also apply to some drink driving offences although that is to be confirmed.
As soon as I get word of how this will be implemented, I will let you all know!
Police Reform Act 2002 Section 59 Not Yet in Force
There is confusion about the commencement of the provisions of Section 59 above. The powers contained in Section 59 are not yet in force.
This means that there is no power as yet to stop, seize and remove a motor vehicle/s when they are being driven off road contrary to Section 34 Road Traffic Act 1988, or on a Road or other place without due care and attention (careless driving), contrary to Section 3 Road Traffic Act 1988
The regulation making powers attached to this section have been brought into force (from October 2002) and it is intended that regulations will be drawn up to support the new powers in Section 59.
The new Police Powers under Section 59 will not be exercisable until the new regulations are in force. It is anticipated that this may happen early next year. The date of commencement will be notified in due course.
The Police Reform Act 2002, became law in October 2002
So as you now see, although I cannot tell you yet how this will work procedurally, it would appear that the likes of Mel stand to lose out big time if they are caught offroading where they should not.
Everyone else stands to lose big time if they are caught driving carelessly ANYWHERE(virtually)
I have heard that these powers will also apply to some drink driving offences although that is to be confirmed.
As soon as I get word of how this will be implemented, I will let you all know!
I reckon I ride pretty safely when I'm off road.
Well, I do often end up lying in mud, with a freely revving bike on top of me, slowly feeling my leg being dragged into the chain, but the move that precedes this is normally between 0 and 10mph, so not much of a danger to anyone else.
I sincerely hope that this sort of thing won't be classed under riding carelessly. If you are in a section of forest (and yes, there are legal ones), or a quarry, half of the fun is attempting things that you mightn't manage.
Just like in Kick Start, but with less skill, and less Peter Purves.
Well, I do often end up lying in mud, with a freely revving bike on top of me, slowly feeling my leg being dragged into the chain, but the move that precedes this is normally between 0 and 10mph, so not much of a danger to anyone else.
I sincerely hope that this sort of thing won't be classed under riding carelessly. If you are in a section of forest (and yes, there are legal ones), or a quarry, half of the fun is attempting things that you mightn't manage.
Just like in Kick Start, but with less skill, and less Peter Purves.
Sorry Madcop but seeing that, all it does is increase the urge not to stop, I know 100% that not flat foot running down a muddy track is going to catch me, neither will a Land Rover nor a plod on a DRZ400 with road tyres, Your right I could lose out big style (about £3500 of bike to start with) which by my sums is bigger than a failing to stop fine. I will certainly bear it in mind though thanks.
So if I understand this correctly......
Over-zealous plod (perhaps got kicked out of bed by the missus with no nuptuals!) can see you, deem you to be driving carelessly, stop you and steal your car off you right there and then??? No right to trial by jury, no recourse to the courts, nothing - his decision stands?
If thats the case then we really are in the throws of becoming a police state. Bad news.
Over-zealous plod (perhaps got kicked out of bed by the missus with no nuptuals!) can see you, deem you to be driving carelessly, stop you and steal your car off you right there and then??? No right to trial by jury, no recourse to the courts, nothing - his decision stands?
If thats the case then we really are in the throws of becoming a police state. Bad news.
As has been pointed out by another poster, though, they actually have to catch you first. In the case of off roading, that really isn't going to happen.
Careless sounds to be a lot less extreme than reckless. If they really intend to take my vehicle just because I happen to have looped it trying to climb a steep hill, well, they can bugger off. Most people would accept that you are careless if you crash every mile. I don't agree hat it's reason to take my bike off me.
Careless sounds to be a lot less extreme than reckless. If they really intend to take my vehicle just because I happen to have looped it trying to climb a steep hill, well, they can bugger off. Most people would accept that you are careless if you crash every mile. I don't agree hat it's reason to take my bike off me.
This means that there is no power as yet to stop, seize and remove a motor vehicle/s when they are being driven off road contrary to Section 34 Road Traffic Act 1988,
Let's hope common sense prevails as a simple navigation error can quickly change your status from road to 'off road' and so in contravention of sect 34 -the signage away from tarmac is generally pretty appalling.
I go along with the spirit of this as I think it is intended to discourage the 'erberts' who ride illegal motorcycles in the woods but we shall see......
Where can I read the full test of the PRA 2002 ?
If the wording madcop has posted is indeed "..on a Road or other place without due care and attention.." unless there are exwmptions it could conceivably be used by anti's ( and there are enough of those about ) to interfere in forest rallying or other legitimate off road motor sports. The RTA provisions are the main obstacle to closed road rallying as is practiced in many other enlightened EU countries. I sincerely hope not as we have only recently fought off proposals to restrict the sport by requiring planning temporary change of use planning permission per event. The control freaks in govt who commissioned the report ensured that blantant lies were published in it.
This means that there is no power as yet to stop, seize and remove a motor vehicle/s when they are being driven off road contrary to Section 34 Road Traffic Act 1988, or on a Road or other place without due care and attention (careless driving), contrary to Section 3 Road Traffic Act 1988
If the wording madcop has posted is indeed "..on a Road or other place without due care and attention.." unless there are exwmptions it could conceivably be used by anti's ( and there are enough of those about ) to interfere in forest rallying or other legitimate off road motor sports. The RTA provisions are the main obstacle to closed road rallying as is practiced in many other enlightened EU countries. I sincerely hope not as we have only recently fought off proposals to restrict the sport by requiring planning temporary change of use planning permission per event. The control freaks in govt who commissioned the report ensured that blantant lies were published in it.
Richard C said: Where can I read the full test of the PRA 2002 ?
This means that there is no power as yet to stop, seize and remove a motor vehicle/s when they are being driven off road contrary to Section 34 Road Traffic Act 1988, or on a Road or other place without due care and attention (careless driving), contrary to Section 3 Road Traffic Act 1988
This should have read ...'or on a road or other PUBLIC PLACE without due care and attention'...
Sorry it was early hours when I typed it
I am not aware of where you can get the full Act on PRA 2002. I tried to find more last night but had limited time to do so as I was busy.
I would imagine that there would be scope for a google search on it though!
I will try and find the whole act tonight when I go into work during the small hours, if the burglars give me a break
Whoozit said: Might I point out that off road also applies to race tracks? I can just imagine Plod pulling everyone who did a quick overtake of a slower car, or gave it some sideways beans out of a corner . . . .
And yes race tracks can become public places by definition in law as it has a section which states any place to which the public have access on payment or otherwise.
In relation to Road Traffic Offences
It says in order to prove that a place is a public place, it must be shown that
1) Those people that are admitted to the place in question are members of the public and are admitted as such, not as members of some special or particular class of the public (e.g. members of an exclusive club) or as a result of some special characteristic that is not shared by the public at large
AND
2) those people who are so admitted with the permission, express or implied, of the owner of the land in question.
Examples of places which have been held to be Public places witin the meaning of this Act are
a) A privately owned Caravan site.
b) A school playground outside school hours used as a leisure park by members of the public
c) he inward frieght immigration lanes at Dover Eastern Docks
d) A field used in connection with an agricultural show
e) A multi storey Car Park
You can see that the meaning of this definition could easily fit into a general track day at somewhere such as Castle Coombe or Thruxton, even if you have to pay money to be allowed to use the circuit.
Unless a specific exclusive club hires the track and no one else is admitted, then it could be a public place within this definition.
VIVE LE REVOLUTION!!!!!!!! 
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