Fine and points? The choice is yours?

Fine and points? The choice is yours?

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Big_M

Original Poster:

5,602 posts

270 months

Monday 2nd December 2002
quotequote all
Reported in the Daily Outrage (Mail) today that those speeding a few miles over the limit will be offered the choice of a £60 fixed penalty & 3 points or paying £200 to attend a ‘Driver Improvement Course’. The reforms are being spearheaded by the Thames Valley Chief Constable.

So Phers do you think this is an good idea and what is your choice - £60 & 3 points or a £200 course?

PS CarZee please note that I do not normally read the DM but I have my Dad staying with me and he bought a copy during his morning walk.

madcop

6,649 posts

270 months

Monday 2nd December 2002
quotequote all
You should see what is going to be on the statutes in the new year.

One of them relates to being caught driving carelessly and having your car impounded and removed from you!

hertsbiker

6,371 posts

278 months

Monday 2nd December 2002
quotequote all
1st 3 pts, possibly take the pts. Next 3, take the course!

So if confiscation is likely, is this not going to encourage more "runners", and illegal number plates?

Face it, if you know you car will be stolen by the Police, you may as well smash it up trying to get away.

Sad, very sad. And very scary for us innocent drivers who get in the crossfire.

C

Dazren

22,612 posts

268 months

Monday 2nd December 2002
quotequote all

madcop said: You should see what is going to be on the statutes in the new year.

One of them relates to being caught driving carelessly and having your car impounded and removed from you!



Madcop.

Do you want to expand on this. I think I may have to go and maxout the finance on my families cars.

Alternatively sell them and buy some stolen ones instead.

DAZ

Not happy about being forced into a life of crime.



>> Edited by Dazren on Monday 2nd December 11:59

madcop

6,649 posts

270 months

Monday 2nd December 2002
quotequote all

Dazren said:

madcop said: You should see what is going to be on the statutes in the new year.

One of them relates to being caught driving carelessly and having your car impounded and removed from you!



Madcop.

Do you want to expand on this. I think I may have to go and maxout the finance on my families cars.

Alternatively sell them and buy some stolen ones instead.

DAZ

Not happy about being forced into a life of crime.



>> Edited by Dazren on Monday 2nd December 11:59



I will when I get the relevant information.
This came into force around 2nd October with a change to other arrestable and Road traffic offences.
It has been decided not to bring the powers of removal into force until next year, I do not know when.
i read it briefly in some correspondence at work called 'weekly orders' where they publish new legislation and the meanings of such (along with a whole load of other corporate stuff)

I will dig it out and give you the full monty when I go to work this evening. You will have the whole lot by tomorrow (I hope)
The removal of vehicle powers did not just cover the offence of Section 3 RTA 1988 there were others too.

CarZee

13,382 posts

274 months

Monday 2nd December 2002
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PS CarZee please note that I do not normally read the DM but I have my Dad staying with me and he bought a copy during his morning walk.


I've no objection to people realing the Maily Dail.. I refer to it for a good old dose of right-wing bombast. Just take it in the correct context as you must with any newspaper..

IMO this whole car confiscation malarchy just shows how hopelessly lost this administration is - I mean, they know exactly what they want to achieve but they haven't got the faintest idea how to do it without resorting to illiberal and draconian measures which will catch out more decent people than the scrotes at whom the measures are targeted. At the same time it will increase the tempation for people to run unregistered and disposable vehicles. Counter-productive in the extreme.

As to this £200 training course, well I'd probably take them up on the offer, but I just know I'd be outraged by it. It won't be an IAM style 'improve your observation and technique' course - it'll be a didactic "Speeding is bad, mkay" type of course and it will verily suck.

>> Edited by CarZee (moderator) on Monday 2nd December 12:08

Dazren

22,612 posts

268 months

Monday 2nd December 2002
quotequote all
Madcop.

I think I speak for everyone when I say we look forward to reading details tomorrow.

It's interesting they're doing this having only just got their knuckles rapped over Customs & Excise confiscating cars. Will they ever learn? or will political dogma and a need to control everything Big Brother style lead to even more ludicrous laws. If I were a betting man I'm afraid I'd be betting on more stupity.

DAZ

SGirl

7,922 posts

268 months

Monday 2nd December 2002
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Madcop, is there any indication that people caught driving "carelessly" (however that's defined) could have their licences taken away too? Seems to me that the miscreants could just go out and buy another Skip if they've still got their licences...

Oh. But then again, wouldn't like to see any PHers lose their licences for this when there are numpties with permanent foglights, the 45 mph brigade, etc. still driving around because they're being "safe"...

madcop

6,649 posts

270 months

Monday 2nd December 2002
quotequote all
I don't recall that there was anything in what I read about licence removal in conjunction with car removal.
Most of the more serious driving offences have discretionary disqualification by the court attached to them in any case.

Tony Hall

18,864 posts

289 months

Monday 2nd December 2002
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Taking away their licence doesn't stop them driving, just takes away their legality. Knew a boy at work many years ago who was due to start a driving ban when he reached 17 years old!
Don't have a licence you can't lose it, don't register your car (preferably old) and you can't get done for speeding/parking etc unless you are actually stopped.
Cynical, me?

mondeoman

11,430 posts

273 months

Monday 2nd December 2002
quotequote all
Judge, jury and executioner in a jam sandwich now eh??

Civil unrest gets closer and closer by the day ........


oh and I READ THE DAILY MAIL AND I'M PROUD OF IT!! NERH!

lucozade

2,574 posts

286 months

Monday 2nd December 2002
quotequote all
£200 - How can this be justified when it only costs £75 for a 12 week IAM course which included a copy of the highway code and Roadcraft (police drivers manual).

Rip off bas***ds!!!

deltaf

1,384 posts

264 months

Monday 2nd December 2002
quotequote all
Police State anyone?

Mad Dave

7,158 posts

270 months

Monday 2nd December 2002
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Im sorry to say that about 2 years ago i was the cause of a road accident - not the sole cause you understand, but my driving (safe as i believed it to be) was a major factor. Anyway, the Police said that it was a genuine mistake (i failed to spot a dip in the road, so overtook a tractor, only to be confronted by an Audi!) to make and said i could either be done for careless driving, or i could go on the 'Driver Improvement Scheme'. This scheme was only available to reasonably inexperienced drivers (id been driving under a year), but it taught me heaps about car control - eg, keeping the car balanced with light throttle around bends etc and i found it wholey useful. It cost £140 two years ago tho. The course i took was held in Melksham and wasnt a 'speeding kills m'kay' although if it gets opened up to the masses, i fully expect CarZee's prophecy will be correct.

>> Edited by Mad Dave on Monday 2nd December 16:57

Froth

100 posts

264 months

Monday 2nd December 2002
quotequote all

mondeoman said: Judge, jury and executioner in a jam sandwich now eh??

Civil unrest gets closer and closer by the day ........


oh and I READ THE DAILY MAIL AND I'M PROUD OF IT!! NERH!


Me to; the Daily Mail is one of the few national newspapers which stands up for the motorist.

It is ridiculously prone to telling the truth, unlike the Guardian which is only interested in telling us what it deems to be politically correct.

Oh yes, I'd take the course, cause you never know when you'll get caught next.

granville

18,764 posts

268 months

Monday 2nd December 2002
quotequote all

Reported in the Daily Mail today that those speeding a few miles over the limit will be offered the choice of a £60 fixed penalty & 3 points or paying £200 to attend a ‘Driver Improvement Course’...do you think this is an good idea and what is your choice - £60 & 3 points or a £200 course?

PS CarZee please note that I do not normally read the DM but I have my Dad staying with me and he bought a copy during his morning walk.


I'm all in favour of being fined rather than having licences revoked - if that's the choice.

As long as plod extend the courtesy to exceeding the hermaphroditic limits by vast acreages too. (Obviously, suitable wedge donated to a cause of the arresting officer's favourite choice, natch.)

Btw, Big M, next time you're reading the Daily Mail, put on some Elgar and pretend you don't live in a country that's been taken over by a rump of political mediocrity.

But stand to attention, mind.

Froth

100 posts

264 months

Monday 2nd December 2002
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I've just read this particuar article and the copper who's quoted in it seems to be saying that the choice will only be available to people who are caught just over the limit and have an otherwise clean license.

He looks at 30 zones and suggests using it for people caught doing 31 or 32. Ehh? I thought you couldn't be caught at such a speed. He also refers to 40mph as being a speed thats deserving of points - just 10mph over the limit!

I couldn't follow exactly what he meant, and got the feeling the reporter couldn't either as there wasn't any clarification given. Are we to presume this measure will go hand in hand with cameras being triggered at lower speeds?

Has anyone heard this story reported elsewhere or can anyone shed any further light?

bobthebench

398 posts

270 months

Tuesday 3rd December 2002
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madcop said: You should see what is going to be on the statutes in the new year.

One of them relates to being caught driving carelessly and having your car impounded and removed from you!



Courts in Scotland already have the power to confiscate any property used in commision of an offence. Common practice each new year for courts to be the first to confiscate drink driver vehicles, even auntie's or company cars. ECHR to the rescue. Confiscation must now be propertionate to the offence. Mind you, Customs at Dover have the same rules but do they bother.

madcop

6,649 posts

270 months

Tuesday 3rd December 2002
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See the post in speeding and plod 'driving Carelessly/offroad beware' to read the full details.

madcop

6,649 posts

270 months

Tuesday 3rd December 2002
quotequote all
I am a mail reader too