anybody help?

[GatsoMagnet]

hi there in may 2002 i was caught speeding twice within 5 days (doh) fair enough you might say but there are some things which could turn it in my favour, firstly i was a new rider and had never been down this particular stretch of road before (cardiff road, in newport) its a large road 4 lanes not in a built up area and no bends, i was caught doing 53 & 56 on both days it is a 30 mph limit (i thought it was a dual carrigeway??????) now there has been some confusion with this road before (i have been checking because as a new rider if i get 6 points within the first 2 years i have to retest blah blah) as there were no road signs and a lot of people were making mistakes and were being let off, so in there infinite wisdom they decided to put some speed signs up (hurray) now in february 2002 they conducted a traffic speed survey on the road so they covered all the signs with black bin liners (hmmmmm) now this survey finished on april 6th 2002 (when obviously the bin liners should have been removed) but low and behold on the days i got caught speeding they were still covered up (nice thanks guys) when i recieved the nip's i told them of this and that i had made a mistake (i know i was naive enough to think that this would make a difference) they said they would look into it, and now i have received a letter stating that the signs were considered illegal until july 10th 2002 so therefore were covered up (what utter bullshit i checked with the south wales argus who had checked with the council and it was due to a traffic speed survey also as soon as i told them they had were covered up they mysteriously became uncovered shock horror) they have now gone onto to say they will be taking me to court (bring it on) now i have obviously been investigating as to what i can do, and i have been checking about the particular device that caught me (it was a LTI 2020 speedscope, i have checked on this device and in the acpo guidlines it states that it should be used only to confirm officers suspicions ( it was hidden form view in a van and therefore couldnt see me until i went past it and then only for a few seconds ( i know it only takes 0.3 sec)) also the laser had to cut across 2 lanes of traffic (it was fairly busy on both occassions) also against the acpo guidelines and the photos i have are also interesting in the fact that i have 2 photos showing the date speed etc. etc. but you cant see my reg very well (you actually cant make it out) and i also have another one that has been enlarged to show my reg (they arent allowed to modify the photos) also i have a calibration certificate that shows it was calibrated on april 2002 this is one month after i had been caught (can i request the earlier one???) the LTi 2020 also need sto be calibrated on every use before and after any enforcement period, now the acpo states that this must be done by driving a police vehicle with a calibrated speedo towards and away from the device, also it needs to have the scope and laser alingment checked by pointing it at a thin stationary object this should all be recorded in the devices log book or the officers notebook i have asked for this but they havent sent it to me??? now i am going to take this to court as i believe i have a strong case against them due to their incorrect procdures but i dont know what i need to request for evidence (i cant afford a lawyer) or what i actually can ask for before going to court, now i know they have to provide me with what i ask before i go to help prepare my case but as i have already said i dont know what????? also what can i expect? what kind of court will ti be? i thank you in advance for any help you give me cheers
dave


ok now there have been some interesting developments, the main one being i have had a summons to court for the first offence but havent recieved anything concerning the second offence, so basically i contacted the (hahaha) safety camera unit and enquired as to what was happening with it, i was then asked to explain why i was speeding (dont they keep a record of everything i have sent and told them? days before receiveing my summons i had sent another letter to them saying i know that the procedures for the use of the laser were incorrect and that the officer would not have been able to see me therefore not being able to make an opinion that i was speeding, and that there was a speed survey in progress at the time so in effect there was no speed limit as the council had removed the signs (black bags)) so i explained what had happened and low and behold the guy i was speaking to (richard bent in case any of you are caught speeding in newport) said that unfortunately it was too late for him to do anything about the one that i have recieved the summons for (i replied the same day after receiving the first nip so it was dealt with quicker due to dates and other procedures, when i received the second i dragged my heels abit) but the one that i had heard nothing about he would discharge it, bam thats it nothing any more, i also have a letter stating this from the safety camera unit now obviously i am going to have to go to court for the first offence, do you think i will be able to get off if i show the court the letter along with photos of the road and placement of mobile vehicle, i know your are very busy and i appreciate any help from anyone

thanks in advance

dave harrison

[hertsbiker]

And what were the limits before & after? why were they illegal? you need to calm down, write less words, but say more! give us more info..

4 lanes, at 30mph is madness. But as we all know the laws are stupid sometimes. Interesting points you make about calibration, but I think you'll find they turn up with all the proof they need in court.

Only advice (based on what you've said so far) is, best suit & tie, ask forgiveness for the fact you were misled by the signage, and ask that you may keep your license as you need it to get to work. And that you haven't been a regular user of that particular road.

However, for next time you might consider denying it was you... but that's another story, and too late for now.

Carl

[M@H]

you need an answer from Bob the Bench and Madcop before you get there ..

[kevinday]

Your comment that the police officer could not see you before triggering the gun must be incorrect. To trigger the gun accurately he must see you first, even if only for a second or so.

Best advice is get dressed up, be polite, show remorse etc etc. and hope for the best, do not try to prove the police action was illegal, they will be able to prove it was not, and your fine points etc would increase.

[bobthebench]

M@H said: you need an answer from Bob the Bench and Madcop before you get there ..

Terrible feeling of deja vu, I think he already has.

[poidal]

Something which may be of relevance - there is a stretch of the A523 between Hazel Grove and Poynton, commonly known as the "Mad Mile". It used to be NSL, but due to the madness it was reduced to a 50 limit. Then a few years later it was reduced again to a 40 limit, but the contractors made a mess of the job. They put up the new 40 signs between the old 50 ones, and left the 50s there for a few weeks, so nobody knew what the real speed limit was. Then in the "Manchester Evening News", one of the local traffic chief plods was quoted as saying that until the council sorted the signs out properly, there was no way they could enforce ANY speed limit. If this is the case, then the bin-liner situation would let all speeders off the hook.

[gatsododger]

You could always change your Pistonheads login name, it might help

Gatso dodger

Sorry I know thats no help at all but it made me smile

[kevinday]

Another point to note: If the road was well lit with regularly spaced lights and had no signs it is automatically a 30 mph zone UNLESS signed higher. 30 mph zones do not require repeater signs, in fact are not legally allowed to have them.

Roll over and take it as per my previous post.

[M-Five]

kevinday said: Another point to note: If the road was well lit with regularly spaced lights and had no signs it is automatically a 30 mph zone UNLESS signed higher. 30 mph zones do not require repeater signs, in fact are not legally allowed to have them.

Roll over and take it as per my previous post.

Wasn't it a dual carriageway with no signs . . . is that still 30mph?

So if I join a three-lane, well-lit road and there are no repeated speed limit signs I should do 30? That must be why people are always doing 30mph on motorways then!

[madcop]

Gatsomagnet.

I din't think you will get much joy out of challenging the calibration procedures of the device used. They have self calibrating checks on the devices and those that use them do not just get them out of the box, plug them in and fire away without making sure they are accurate and the correct procedure carried out.

Many years of court experience tell Police officers if they do not comply with instructions for using specialist equipment, they lose the cases they put before the magistrates.

With regard to the first offence for which you have been summonsed, You may plead not guilty and be successful if there was a problem with the signing of the limit. Both signs on both sides of the road at the commencement of the limit need to be properly and clearly displayed, for the limit to be enforceable.
If you have photgraphs that they were not, then you may have a chance to be acquitted.

If you plead not guilty, you are entitled to disclosure of all the evidence against you. This should arrive automatically but if you do not recieve it, phone the Administration of Justice unit which sent the summons and ask them to disclose the relevant documents.

[GatsoMagnet]

thanks madcop and everyone else i have got pictures of the signs so we'll see cheers