Friday 8th November 2002
30% Lies
Exposing the myth
Discussion
It doesn't matter if he has to take the page down. Not only did I copy it but a great many others will. Clearly it can be published on many, many websites in no time.
But...its got me interested. I will now read the report myself very carefully. I want to be in the position to make logical arguments myself...
But...its got me interested. I will now read the report myself very carefully. I want to be in the position to make logical arguments myself...
safespeed said: Hi all,
I'm the SafeSpeed webmaster. I have not yet been asked to take the page or the site down. Someone exaggerated the position.
I'm concerned that I may come under pressure since the TRL especially are shown in such a bad light.
Paul Smith
Hi Paul,
Great job, do you mind if people mirror the info if they give credit and a link to your site? The more people that read this the better, and the more servers it is on the harder it is for people to get it taken down.
m12_nathan said:
Great job, do you mind if people mirror the info if they give credit and a link to your site? The more people that read this the better, and the more servers it is on the harder it is for people to get it taken down.
I'd be delighted for anyone to mirror the page or link to the site or the contents. A credit would be nice, together with the main url: www.safespeed.org.uk
Best Regards,
Paul Smith
Safespeed
This is a brilliant report,I could not agree more with your humiliation of the Governments findings.This is so typical of the this Governments policy of "never let the facts get in the way of a good story". The same manipulation of figures was used to show Hospital waiting lists coming down, until it was proven that the figures were being fiddled by the hospitals under pressure to meet targets.I'm sure if we could get the real detail behind "Falling crime" my arse,and "Blacks ten times more likely to stopped and searched". We would find that crime is'nt falling only the way they have classified crime has been manipulated, and perhaps there is a sound explanation for the latter argument. Could it be that Black people are responsible for committing more crime than other racial groups.I apologise for going off at a tangent here but it smacks of everything that is so crap about this Government and the lies it spu's out.
And finally as for a 95% pass rate on 'A' Level results, they will be telling us that kids of today are much brighter than the previous generation, and I think we all know the real reason for that one too.
This is a brilliant report,I could not agree more with your humiliation of the Governments findings.This is so typical of the this Governments policy of "never let the facts get in the way of a good story". The same manipulation of figures was used to show Hospital waiting lists coming down, until it was proven that the figures were being fiddled by the hospitals under pressure to meet targets.I'm sure if we could get the real detail behind "Falling crime" my arse,and "Blacks ten times more likely to stopped and searched". We would find that crime is'nt falling only the way they have classified crime has been manipulated, and perhaps there is a sound explanation for the latter argument. Could it be that Black people are responsible for committing more crime than other racial groups.I apologise for going off at a tangent here but it smacks of everything that is so crap about this Government and the lies it spu's out.
And finally as for a 95% pass rate on 'A' Level results, they will be telling us that kids of today are much brighter than the previous generation, and I think we all know the real reason for that one too.
Got to say that a lot of this work appears to be justification of a policy to erect speed cameras to allegedly 'reduce accidents'. Similar schemes and studies have been carried out in other countries and in the majaority, if not all cases erection of speed cameras et al has had a detrimental effect on key measures of road safety.
Yes, speed is a contributory factor in ALL accidents, regardless of actual speed. However reducing speed will not reduce the number of accidents, it will reduce the severity of accidents.
The real issue should be driver training, I work in the Automotive industry in test and development and have investigated a number of accidents on proving grounds and on public highway. In all cases (excepting mechanical failure of vehicle) speed has been a contributor to the accident.
These are accidents involving highly trained professional drivers, who's job it is to discover the limits of vehicles and improve upon their performance in this area. In all of these cases the accident has been attributable to either poor decision making, lack of planning, or, improper judgement. This has been compounded by speed to result in an accident.
The average driver does not have the skills, experience, training required to cope with higher speed, the focus of the majority of higher driving qualifications is around planing, anticipation, and, risk analysis. Only once this is mastered can speed be increased and advanced car control be considered.
Road safety would be improved if more people were to follow the route of IOM Advanced Driving training and other similar schemes. I do not believe that the current driving test equips people to drive fully especially with all the congestion issues at the present time. More experience is neccesary, and, a tiered scheme of license could help, similar to that used for motorcycles currently. Limiting the driver to certain roads / vehicles until experience and training have beeen gained.
Yes, speed is a contributory factor in ALL accidents, regardless of actual speed. However reducing speed will not reduce the number of accidents, it will reduce the severity of accidents.
The real issue should be driver training, I work in the Automotive industry in test and development and have investigated a number of accidents on proving grounds and on public highway. In all cases (excepting mechanical failure of vehicle) speed has been a contributor to the accident.
These are accidents involving highly trained professional drivers, who's job it is to discover the limits of vehicles and improve upon their performance in this area. In all of these cases the accident has been attributable to either poor decision making, lack of planning, or, improper judgement. This has been compounded by speed to result in an accident.
The average driver does not have the skills, experience, training required to cope with higher speed, the focus of the majority of higher driving qualifications is around planing, anticipation, and, risk analysis. Only once this is mastered can speed be increased and advanced car control be considered.
Road safety would be improved if more people were to follow the route of IOM Advanced Driving training and other similar schemes. I do not believe that the current driving test equips people to drive fully especially with all the congestion issues at the present time. More experience is neccesary, and, a tiered scheme of license could help, similar to that used for motorcycles currently. Limiting the driver to certain roads / vehicles until experience and training have beeen gained.
My guess is that this bit:
might cause a problem with publishing, although the addressee's use of it is to send it to SafeSpeed and have it published - nowhere does it say 'confidential' or anything else.
I can see why they don't want it published though - no-one likes to be caught telling porkies...
This E-mail and any files transmitted with it are private and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
might cause a problem with publishing, although the addressee's use of it is to send it to SafeSpeed and have it published - nowhere does it say 'confidential' or anything else.
I can see why they don't want it published though - no-one likes to be caught telling porkies...
SIR MP said: the real detail behind "Falling crime" my arse,and "Blacks ten times more likely to stopped and searched". We would find that crime is'nt falling only the way they have classified crime has been manipulated, and perhaps there is a sound explanation for the latter argument. Could it be that Black people are responsible for committing more crime than other racial groups.
Another long one
How right you are
I know it is off topic but this Govt should be ashamed of their record on all of the statistics they put out. They are basically causing the problems by their inability to understand what is actually happening in the real world.
This is by no means a racist outburst from me. I am not in the slightest bit racist. I understand the frustration that black and Asian people go through over inequality and prejudice. I do, as all people have, some prejudice but not against any minority group unless they use that staus to gain an unfair advantage over someone else.
The Govt are to blame.
The Lawrence report branded Police institutionally racist.
At the same time, they introduced revised powers to Chief officers hearing discipline offences.
If a Police Officer is accused of a discipline offence, Since the Lawrence (MacPherson) report he/she is now tried on the balance of probabilities (as in civil law).
At the same time therefore officers branded institutionally racist were now at risk of being tried by their senior officers on grounds that would be very difficult to rebut. Two witnesses against one Police officer, The balance of probabilities would suggest that two were correct, the one was not.
Any false allegation would therefore, with witnesses from those who are of the groups that are affected by perceived prejudice, be a very dodgy area to become involved. This would be especially so if the officer was alone.
Having burdened the Police with this stigma, the Govt then worry about the huge rise in street robbery and street crime in general.
The worst affected areas are those of the inner cities that have large ethnic populations.
The Govt then put pressure on the Police to crack down on this trend which has been started by them in the first place (Police scared of being branded racist and the sack and therefore not targeting Black or Asian offenders). Black and Asian offenders were then left alone to do whatever they wanted with impunity, firmly supported by the race card they would inevitably play if they were stopped going about their 'business'.
Then Comes Blairs speech, off the cuff,back in March when unbeknown to the Home Office or the policy unit, he promised that street crime would be reduced dramatically by September.
Panic from the Home office saw Chief Officers under huge pressure to reverse the situation caused by the Govts Lawrence enquiry outcomes and the change in Police Discipline burden of proof.
Large numbers of officers were taken away from their normal responsibilities to set up and target those who were involved in street crime. Specialist units were set up and an enormous country wide drive was thrust towards reducing the trend of spiralling street crime to achieve the proffessy of Blair in March.
Those areas I already have stated were, in the main populated by large groups of ethnic communities.
Much of the crime relating to these robberies was in fact Black offenders on Black victims.
The way that this was combatted was through intelligence by targetting known offenders and the increased use of the powers of Sect 1 P.A.C.E 1984.
Stop & Search
This part of P.A.C.E. replaced the old Sus laws used to stop and search and is heavilly regulated.
There is a numonic that has to be used consisting of the word GOWISE. Prior to search the Police have to fulfill all of these requirements and abide by many others
On stopping a suspect they must be told
G The Grounds for the stop
O Officers name (or warrant number only if in relation to terrorist offences)
W If not in uniform shown his warrant card
I The Intention of the search (what they are looking for)
S The station they are attached to
E Explain that a notice containing the details of the stop and search will be completed and given to them there and then or held at the above station for 1 year.
No one is obliged to supply their details but they can be forcibly detained and forcibly searched if necessary. If details are refused, then descrptions are written on the notice. This is a national form called DPS1 ( the form is combined with the requirement to produce driving documents replacing the HORT1)
Having set up and started the various operations in areas of high ethnic populations, the records on stop and search were very quickly reverted from their downwards trend after Macpherson and Lawrence, into a quickly ascending trend for stopping those of an ethnic background. They were now being actively targetted to achieve Blairs proffessy.
There was also a situation that occurred where officers stopped a black suspect and searched them, filling in a DPS1 form fearing complaint so complying with the requirement to do so.
A white suspect may not have offered the same fear of complaint and therefore some officers took a risk of not completeing a DPS1 on the search of a white person. This inevitably corrupted the figures on stop and search.
The other part of the annomally has recently been Identified by proffessor Waddington of Reading University.
He has discovered that the figures have not taken into account, the population on the street at the time the search was carried out. Which is highly significant.
Due to very hard work, Policing at the expense of other areas and an extra few million quid thrown at it by the Govt, Blairs dream of a reduction in street crime by September was achieved.
It will be very dificult to sustain as much of it was done on overtime, which the Govt are now refusing to continue to pay.
All in all, as I see it from my side of the fence. This is a hugely complex issue and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that active racism within the Police happens very very rarely .
To indulge in it would be a very serious discipline offence with sanctions that would lose your job on the balance of probability. I am not saying that there are not Police who are prejudice against race. Of course there are as there are Police prejudice against Gay people, bloodsports and many other contentious issues. To bring it into the working environment after MacPherson would be vocational suicide.
The huge disparity between white and black people stopped and searched is a problem specifically engineered by this Govt.
It is not the fault of the Police (except the non completeion of white suspect DPS1 forms) or of those ethnic people that are subject to the searches.
This topic (well done Simon Tonks!) NEEDS a wider audience. Clarkson (TG) would not bat an eyelid so about sending the info to him - should start the ball rolling....
Obviously some don't realise that apart from Stalinist Russia the UK has been the most secretive country in the world and currently holds the number one spot! If the UK government had a hit single it would be titled 'Lies, Lies and more Lies'.
What is amazing is they are all so, well, dim. Their real problem is they think it is we who are dim. Like many of those who Simon has been corresponding with they have degrees in this that and everything, but sadly it makes no difference which university you attend you cannot, anywhere, get a degree in common sense, which they all so obviously lack.
Beware dark forces (where have I heard that recently?)
Obviously some don't realise that apart from Stalinist Russia the UK has been the most secretive country in the world and currently holds the number one spot! If the UK government had a hit single it would be titled 'Lies, Lies and more Lies'.
What is amazing is they are all so, well, dim. Their real problem is they think it is we who are dim. Like many of those who Simon has been corresponding with they have degrees in this that and everything, but sadly it makes no difference which university you attend you cannot, anywhere, get a degree in common sense, which they all so obviously lack.
Beware dark forces (where have I heard that recently?)
Dandarez said: This topic (well done Simon Tonks!) NEEDS a wider audience. Clarkson (TG) would not bat an eyelid so about sending the info to him - should start the ball rolling...
Anyone with a journalistic contact could email the page address directly. In fact I'd be totally delighted. So don't just talk about sending it to Clarkson... find his email address and do it!
Best Regards
Paul Smith
Too much spin (Government not the alledged speeding cars).
The point to make is not to support exessive speeding but for the government departments to be accountable, provide accurate reports, be non-political, and be right! I hate to think what other cr*p we are served up!
Reports like this do not help road safety all it does is miss-guide funds. More speed cameras and less road improvement work? I guess they want more cameras to raise revenue to pay for more fictional reports.
The point to make is not to support exessive speeding but for the government departments to be accountable, provide accurate reports, be non-political, and be right! I hate to think what other cr*p we are served up!
Reports like this do not help road safety all it does is miss-guide funds. More speed cameras and less road improvement work? I guess they want more cameras to raise revenue to pay for more fictional reports.
Simon Tonks tells me that Charlie Wolf is on TalkSport 1053-1089AM tonight/this morning from 1am. HE HATES SPEED CAMERAS, ETC...! We're both going to email the show via: www.talksport.net/emailtheshow.asp and try to get these government lies discussed.
Best Regards,
Paul Smith
www.safespeed.org.uk
Best Regards,
Paul Smith
www.safespeed.org.uk
How about Richard Littlejohn, he seems to be one of the few with any guts to speak out against President Bliar. Anyone with a copy of last weeks Sun ?, his column has his e-mail address at the top.
I doubt if the Beeb would allow JC to do anything this controversial they would'nt want to upset their paymaster.
I doubt if the Beeb would allow JC to do anything this controversial they would'nt want to upset their paymaster.
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