Appealing a PCN - poor photographic evidence
Discussion
I have recently received a PCN for an alleged contravention in my parents' street. My parents' house is on a typical road of semi-detached houses, most of which have drives. Their drive is not accessible due to the position of some steps they had built, as the drive slopes, and it was becoming more difficult to access the house as they get older.
My mum has Alzheimer's, and she is currently alone as my dad fell on the stairs last October and suffered a sub-cranial bleed, then hospital acquired pneumonia. He was discharged into a nursing home for end of life care in January.
I take my mum to see him nearly every day, and I usually have to park in front of their drive, as there are cars parked in every available spot. For some reason, very few of their neighbours use their drives, and there are many multi-car households. This particular evening was quite bad for parking, and I could not get in front of their drive due to a car parked over next door's. It was just before 6pm and dark.
I parked three houses down, close to the junction of a cul-de-sac, which has double yellow lines on the corner. I am not sure if I was overhanging the double yellow lines (that were only painted last year - 70 years after the estate was built), but I have to say I did not really check, as I was only planning on being there a minute or two. I was definitely not causing any sort of nuisance. If I had parked further away, I would have had to cross roads, which I did not want to do, as my mum has a tendency to charge off without warning, and I did not want her doing so into a dark road.
My mum had called me that day and seemed upset; it seems my dad upset her somehow when a neighbour took her to see him. She stormed out, and was feeling guilty. To further upset her, the drains were overflowing. I was able to sort it within about 15 minutes, with the aid of a Karcher aimed into the inspection chamber at the front.
I visited my dad, and it was only when my mum went to get back in the car that she saw the PCN.
I have emailed the council and laid it on a bit thick about the situation with my parents , and the fact my my mum was distressed (which I think is justified); I did not phrase it as an appeal, more a polite request to cancel the ticket. I did not admit the contravention.
They have responded today:
What I first notice is neither show I was parked on double yellow lines, so I have responded, pointing this fact out. I note that they may now expect me to follow the final option to further appeal it.
Is there a reasonable chance this could be overturned?
My mum has Alzheimer's, and she is currently alone as my dad fell on the stairs last October and suffered a sub-cranial bleed, then hospital acquired pneumonia. He was discharged into a nursing home for end of life care in January.
I take my mum to see him nearly every day, and I usually have to park in front of their drive, as there are cars parked in every available spot. For some reason, very few of their neighbours use their drives, and there are many multi-car households. This particular evening was quite bad for parking, and I could not get in front of their drive due to a car parked over next door's. It was just before 6pm and dark.
I parked three houses down, close to the junction of a cul-de-sac, which has double yellow lines on the corner. I am not sure if I was overhanging the double yellow lines (that were only painted last year - 70 years after the estate was built), but I have to say I did not really check, as I was only planning on being there a minute or two. I was definitely not causing any sort of nuisance. If I had parked further away, I would have had to cross roads, which I did not want to do, as my mum has a tendency to charge off without warning, and I did not want her doing so into a dark road.
My mum had called me that day and seemed upset; it seems my dad upset her somehow when a neighbour took her to see him. She stormed out, and was feeling guilty. To further upset her, the drains were overflowing. I was able to sort it within about 15 minutes, with the aid of a Karcher aimed into the inspection chamber at the front.
I visited my dad, and it was only when my mum went to get back in the car that she saw the PCN.
I have emailed the council and laid it on a bit thick about the situation with my parents , and the fact my my mum was distressed (which I think is justified); I did not phrase it as an appeal, more a polite request to cancel the ticket. I did not admit the contravention.
They have responded today:
Shameside Council said:
Re: Notice of rejection of “challenge” – Traffic Management Act 2004
Thank you for your correspondence and for taking the time to explain the difficult circumstances surrounding your visit on the day the Penalty Charge Notice was issued.
I am genuinely sorry to hear about the situation with both your parents, and I appreciate the strain you are under managing their care alongside the emotional pressures involved. I recognise this will have been an extremely distressing period for you and your family.
You were issued a PCN for parking on a double yellow line. Double yellow lines mean no parking at any time, except to load or unload. However, the Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) observed your vehicle and saw no loading or unloading taking place. Because the rule applies 24 hours a day, seven days a week, double yellow lines do not need to be accompanied by a sign.
I have carefully considered the details you have provided regarding your father’s recent discharge to end‑of‑life care, your mother’s Alzheimer’s diagnosis, and the events that unfolded on the day in question. I also note your explanation about the parking conditions on the street, your concerns for your mother’s safety, and the need to deal immediately with the drainage issue at the property.
While I fully appreciate the circumstances you describe and do not doubt the challenges you faced, the restrictions in place at this location are enforced to maintain safety and access for all road users. Double yellow line restrictions apply at all times, and parking on them is not permitted, even partially and even for short durations.
After reviewing the case in full, I am unable to cancel the Penalty Charge Notice on this occasion. I appreciate this will be disappointing, particularly given the difficult family circumstances and whist the Council is not unsympathetic to your circumstances the regulations must be applied consistently to ensure fairness for all motorists. You may still choose to pay the charge at the reduced rate or pursue the matter further by awaiting the Notice to Owner.
The enclosed photos help to show why your PCN was issued.
You have these choices:
You can pay the discount charge of £35.00 if your payment reaches us within 14 days of the date of this letter.
You can pay £70.00 within 28 days of the date your PCN was issued.
You can formally challenge your PCN by using a Notice to Owner form. The vehicle's owner will automatically receive the form if the PCN has not been paid within 28 days of being issued. The form offers you the chance to formally challenge your PCN or pay the full £70.00. If you decide to formally challenge your PCN, please do not write to us again but wait until the Notice to Owner form arrives.
Attached to the email are the following photos:Thank you for your correspondence and for taking the time to explain the difficult circumstances surrounding your visit on the day the Penalty Charge Notice was issued.
I am genuinely sorry to hear about the situation with both your parents, and I appreciate the strain you are under managing their care alongside the emotional pressures involved. I recognise this will have been an extremely distressing period for you and your family.
You were issued a PCN for parking on a double yellow line. Double yellow lines mean no parking at any time, except to load or unload. However, the Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) observed your vehicle and saw no loading or unloading taking place. Because the rule applies 24 hours a day, seven days a week, double yellow lines do not need to be accompanied by a sign.
I have carefully considered the details you have provided regarding your father’s recent discharge to end‑of‑life care, your mother’s Alzheimer’s diagnosis, and the events that unfolded on the day in question. I also note your explanation about the parking conditions on the street, your concerns for your mother’s safety, and the need to deal immediately with the drainage issue at the property.
While I fully appreciate the circumstances you describe and do not doubt the challenges you faced, the restrictions in place at this location are enforced to maintain safety and access for all road users. Double yellow line restrictions apply at all times, and parking on them is not permitted, even partially and even for short durations.
After reviewing the case in full, I am unable to cancel the Penalty Charge Notice on this occasion. I appreciate this will be disappointing, particularly given the difficult family circumstances and whist the Council is not unsympathetic to your circumstances the regulations must be applied consistently to ensure fairness for all motorists. You may still choose to pay the charge at the reduced rate or pursue the matter further by awaiting the Notice to Owner.
The enclosed photos help to show why your PCN was issued.
You have these choices:
You can pay the discount charge of £35.00 if your payment reaches us within 14 days of the date of this letter.
You can pay £70.00 within 28 days of the date your PCN was issued.
You can formally challenge your PCN by using a Notice to Owner form. The vehicle's owner will automatically receive the form if the PCN has not been paid within 28 days of being issued. The form offers you the chance to formally challenge your PCN or pay the full £70.00. If you decide to formally challenge your PCN, please do not write to us again but wait until the Notice to Owner form arrives.
What I first notice is neither show I was parked on double yellow lines, so I have responded, pointing this fact out. I note that they may now expect me to follow the final option to further appeal it.
Is there a reasonable chance this could be overturned?
tight fart said:
No, they say you parked in double yellows, you say you parked on double yellows.
Just because David Bailey didn t take the picture is no reason to appeal.
I’m not expecting David Bailey; it does not require the skill of professional photographer to include the road markings in the photograph. Just because David Bailey didn t take the picture is no reason to appeal.
This may help in the future. Considering your mother's condition, she may well qualify for a Blue Disabled Parking Badge. With that, you are allowed some time (3 hours?) on double yellow lines. Obviously, you can only use it for helping her transport needs. If it looks as though she qualifies under her local council rules, it might be worth pointing it out in any appeal.
Hungry Pigeon said:
As the poster above said, "I'd spin the wheel".
Were you not loading/unloading your mother at the time? AFAIK, loading or unloading on double yellow lines is not restricted to goods, but also applied to people.
That would be alighting, which is a separate exception to loading. It is indeed legal to stop on double yellow lines to pick up or set down a passengerWere you not loading/unloading your mother at the time? AFAIK, loading or unloading on double yellow lines is not restricted to goods, but also applied to people.
Normally this would only mean stopping for long enough for the passenger to jump into/out of the car. However I recall that where the passenger is a child or a disabled/vulnerable adult, it can also include getting out of the car yourself for a short time to help them alight, or to make sure they reach their destination safely ("assisted alighting").
[Should have read the OP better, this exception might have applied had he simply escorted his mum to her door to make sure she arrived safely, if he was going to stay to unblock the drains I think the council will reasonably say that he's no longer just assisting her to get out of the car, and could and should have moved the car to a more legal space first.]
Edited by Aretnap on Thursday 5th March 07:43
I feel for your circumstances and for your frustration at this but if I were in your position these would be my thought.
You pleaded your case & the response was sympathetic but unsuccessful, £35 isn't the end of the world, pay it & move on.
As you have told them that you did other things over the allowed pick-up/drop-off it is unlikely you will get any further.
You pleaded your case & the response was sympathetic but unsuccessful, £35 isn't the end of the world, pay it & move on.
As you have told them that you did other things over the allowed pick-up/drop-off it is unlikely you will get any further.
WTDMM said:
You parked on double Yellow lines
You have been issued a PCN
You have seen the evidence that proves its your car and you admit you were there and it was your car.
On what grounds do you think you shouldn't have a PCN?
OP wants evidence that he was actually on double yellow lines as he is not sure if he was.You have been issued a PCN
You have seen the evidence that proves its your car and you admit you were there and it was your car.
On what grounds do you think you shouldn't have a PCN?
GasEngineer said:
WTDMM said:
You parked on double Yellow lines
You have been issued a PCN
You have seen the evidence that proves its your car and you admit you were there and it was your car.
On what grounds do you think you shouldn't have a PCN?
OP wants evidence that he was actually on double yellow lines as he is not sure if he was.You have been issued a PCN
You have seen the evidence that proves its your car and you admit you were there and it was your car.
On what grounds do you think you shouldn't have a PCN?
The evidence thy presented showed the road beneath the car, and there were clearly no double yellow lines. I responded to that effect.
Unfortunately they have now responded providing more photos taken from the other end of the car. They are quite blurred, but they do clearly show the front end was overhanging the double yellows.
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