A Transfer of Liability Question
Discussion
You're working on a car and removing a part. You use a low-tack tape to mask the area (to protect the immediate area). Upon removing the tape, some paint/lacquer flakes off in a localised (edge) area.
Do you own it? Or do you push it towards the car owner on the basis that it is an unfortunate incident largely down to 'loose' paint (a poor previous paint job).
Flipped the other way, too; if it happened to your car, would you expect the person working on it to rectify it, or would you see it as an unfortunate incident owing to a s
t blow-in previously?
Do you own it? Or do you push it towards the car owner on the basis that it is an unfortunate incident largely down to 'loose' paint (a poor previous paint job).
Flipped the other way, too; if it happened to your car, would you expect the person working on it to rectify it, or would you see it as an unfortunate incident owing to a s
t blow-in previously? It would depend how poor the previous job was. If the area was already visibly poor with lacquer peel you could argue that no further damage has occurred which materially affects the value of the car etc - obviously it would depend if you took half the bonnet off. If its only poor because your masking tape took it off, but was otherwise invisible, then its your fault.
Its the same as if someone polishes the car but blows through the lacquer or paint - it wasn't like that before, it now is.
Its the same as if someone polishes the car but blows through the lacquer or paint - it wasn't like that before, it now is.
If something doesn't survive industry-standard procedures, it's faulty?
If non-standard procedures or faulty materials damage standard quality goods, then the workman is at fault?
T&Cs might need to make clear what is going to be done and the potential for unfortunate things to happen.
In the real world, you need a bit of compromise?
If non-standard procedures or faulty materials damage standard quality goods, then the workman is at fault?
T&Cs might need to make clear what is going to be done and the potential for unfortunate things to happen.
In the real world, you need a bit of compromise?
Glassman said:
Flipped the other way, too; if it happened to your car, would you expect the person working on it to rectify it, or would you see it as an unfortunate incident owing to a st blow-in previously?
As a customer, if the work was quoted I'd expect them to complete the job for the price agreed. It's the contractor's bad luck - some he wins, some he loses.t blow-in previously?As a contractor, if I hadn't quoted but estimated then I'd explain the problem to the customer and try (nicely) to add the extra work to the bill.
OutInTheShed said:
If something doesn't survive industry-standard procedures, it's faulty?
This. As long as you do your job to the correct standards any other issues that arise belong to the owner of the car. You can express how unfortunate it is but point out that this was going to happen no matter who did the job.
Some customers will understand, some won’t; everyone lives in the world of the customer is right even when they are an absolute balloon so you can’t control how they feel about it all. You will lose customers over it, but if they think that everything is your fault then you don’t want them anyway.
I have seen cases where customers have been able to enforce some kind of compensation in these situations but sadly they have all been down to mistakes, not in how they did the initial repair but in how they dealt with the owner afterwards.
Steve H said:
This.
As long as you do your job to the correct standards any other issues that arise belong to the owner of the car. You can express how unfortunate it is but point out that this was going to happen no matter who did the job.
Some customers will understand, some won t; everyone lives in the world of the customer is right even when they are an absolute balloon so you can t control how they feel about it all. You will lose customers over it, but if they think that everything is your fault then you don t want them anyway.
I have seen cases where customers have been able to enforce some kind of compensation in these situations but sadly they have all been down to mistakes, not in how they did the initial repair but in how they dealt with the owner afterwards.
It's a mindset that a lot of people think under: not my problem. 'It was alright until you touched it'. They won't see that it was just a matter of time before it failed. They won't think that it was pre-existing and could have been them to discover it, but because someone else did, that'll do. 'What are you going to do about it?' It can be a very awkward conversation, not because of what is right or wrong, but the customer is so rigid in their thinking. As long as you do your job to the correct standards any other issues that arise belong to the owner of the car. You can express how unfortunate it is but point out that this was going to happen no matter who did the job.
Some customers will understand, some won t; everyone lives in the world of the customer is right even when they are an absolute balloon so you can t control how they feel about it all. You will lose customers over it, but if they think that everything is your fault then you don t want them anyway.
I have seen cases where customers have been able to enforce some kind of compensation in these situations but sadly they have all been down to mistakes, not in how they did the initial repair but in how they dealt with the owner afterwards.
A 993 I recently removed all the glass from had a broken rear wiper arm. The car was left in a bodyshop, and I was directed to the barn it was being stored in. I walked around the car to make sure all was in order and spotted the rear wiper arm was damaged. It became a finders keepers conversation when I pointed it out to the bodyshop guys. Luckily for us both the car owner took it away and said he'd source a replacement.
For context I have been doing diagnostics for over 30 years and mostly do work for other garages and workshops so I tend to see the aftermath when these situations are handled badly. It is awkward for sure but bottom line is that taking on someone else’s problems is how a lot of trade get themselves in trouble, they would be better off just having the difficult conversation and explaining clearly why it’s the owners issue in the first place.
Let’s say you try to take a wiper arm off and it fractures while you are doing it. You used the correct puller and method but despite this it broke. Ideally you would pause when it was putting up a fight and give them some extra warnings but sometimes these things fail before you even knew there would be an issue. It’s only your fault if you did something incorrectly.
Let’s say you try to take a wiper arm off and it fractures while you are doing it. You used the correct puller and method but despite this it broke. Ideally you would pause when it was putting up a fight and give them some extra warnings but sometimes these things fail before you even knew there would be an issue. It’s only your fault if you did something incorrectly.
Steve H said:
Let s say you try to take a wiper arm off and it fractures while you are doing it. You used the correct puller and method but despite this it broke. Ideally you would pause when it was putting up a fight and give them some extra warnings but sometimes these things fail before you even knew there would be an issue. It s only your fault if you did something incorrectly.
Getting the customer/owner involved in the problem does usually help, just as identifying where a risk might lie. In my work, removing a windscreen intact is a big problem for many, because nobody wants to take responsibility. The conversation usually starts and finishes with, 'if it breaks I walk away'. The reality is, windscreens don't just break, fitters break them. There are other reasons why windscreen can break and it's best to identify any risk areas in the pre-assessment such as a chip, or the glass being too close to the pinchweld.
I'm quietly confident I will successfully remove 98.9% of attempts, and even though I will stand by a 100% record for successfully removing Porsche 993 windscreens without damage, there's always one you look at and can see a mile off that it won't come out without damage due to how badly it has been fitted (or patched up by a DIYer).
Before turning a screw I will always have the conversation about what happens in the event of the glass breaking, and the customer is usually already prepared for that realistic outcome. That said, it is still rare for a windscreen to be fitted in such a bad way that it cannot be rescued.
GasEngineer said:
Glassman - I'm interested in why it's an issue if a screen breaks when you remove it - aren't you taking it out to replace it anyway?
There are reasons to remove and refit a windscreen that isn't broken:1. leaking;
2. wind noise;
3. poorly set/positioned;
4. to gain access to dashboard fixings;
5. creaking (especially on a Porsche 993)
6. car restoration or repaint;
7. to replace rubber trim, gasket or seal;
8. use that windscreen in another car;
9. to remove headlining.
ETA:
10. customer didn't pay
Edited by Glassman on Wednesday 11th February 09:20
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff