Portugese fine for driving in a bus lane
Discussion
Hi all
Had a hire car in Portugal back in June 25. Have just received today, notification that I ventured in to a bus lane.
120 Euros if I pay now or 600 if I leave it a while. All in Portugese.
No plans to return to Portugal but wonder whether I should pay? No pics or proof just the name of the fellow that saw it.
Thanks for any advice
Had a hire car in Portugal back in June 25. Have just received today, notification that I ventured in to a bus lane.
120 Euros if I pay now or 600 if I leave it a while. All in Portugese.
No plans to return to Portugal but wonder whether I should pay? No pics or proof just the name of the fellow that saw it.
Thanks for any advice
Landlubber said:
Sorry but since May 2017, the EU Cross-Border Enforcement Directive has allowed enforcement authorities to pursue and fine drivers of vehicles registered in other EU countries. If the ticket is ignored they can (in theory) pass it on through dvla for enforcement.
Roll the dice.
Thanks.....I had better pay it. In retrospect it could just be a local traffic warden type fella trying to hit his targets for the day. I have no recollection at all of committing such a heinous crime!Roll the dice.
Simpo Two said:
Could you demand proof/photo or is that not a requirement in Portugal?
I wouldn't respond at all, throw in the bin and get in with life.A demand for money under these circumstances could be construed as extortion.
Also check credit cards for unauthorised charges, try and get them reversed.
I had similar for unpaid tolls a while back and did a bit of investigation and eventually responded with this
"Our Portuguese Lawyers have informed us that based on the Portuguese Motorway Law, (Lei das Autoestradas Portuguesas) the following must apply.
- a legitimate notification/fine/charge should come by registered mail;
- Via Livre cannot charge penalties, without first sending a notification requesting toll payment free of penalties;
- The first notification for payment has a time limit to be made of 24 months after using the toll road.
- Via Livre are believing the first notification to be the one requesting identification of the drivers, sent to the rental company, this is not correct. Each and every USER (driver) must be notified. Since the rental car company is not the USER, Via Livre must send the first notification to the customer (USER) and only in case of non-payment they can send a second notification with penalties/fines applied.
Furthermore, any letter that has legal recognition must be sent with acknowledgment of receipt. This is not happening with the letters received from EPC. Therefore there is no proof that these have been received
Based on the above not being adhered to these notices have no legal legitimacy."
and it was cancelled, guess it depends who sent it to you and if the above rules have been adhered to and if it applies to bus lane infringements in the same way as motorway tolls. In any case good luck.
"Our Portuguese Lawyers have informed us that based on the Portuguese Motorway Law, (Lei das Autoestradas Portuguesas) the following must apply.
- a legitimate notification/fine/charge should come by registered mail;
- Via Livre cannot charge penalties, without first sending a notification requesting toll payment free of penalties;
- The first notification for payment has a time limit to be made of 24 months after using the toll road.
- Via Livre are believing the first notification to be the one requesting identification of the drivers, sent to the rental company, this is not correct. Each and every USER (driver) must be notified. Since the rental car company is not the USER, Via Livre must send the first notification to the customer (USER) and only in case of non-payment they can send a second notification with penalties/fines applied.
Furthermore, any letter that has legal recognition must be sent with acknowledgment of receipt. This is not happening with the letters received from EPC. Therefore there is no proof that these have been received
Based on the above not being adhered to these notices have no legal legitimacy."
and it was cancelled, guess it depends who sent it to you and if the above rules have been adhered to and if it applies to bus lane infringements in the same way as motorway tolls. In any case good luck.
The issue you may face is the hire car firm may to asked to pay it and charge against your credit card plus a nice admin fee if you don’t engage. I’m actually surprised this hasn’t already happened as t&c’s on the hire agreement usually contain something regards fines and fees. I’d probably pay it if non compliance is 600 euros.
TonyF1 said:
The issue you may face is the hire car firm may to asked to pay it and charge against your credit card plus a nice admin fee if you don t engage. I m actually surprised this hasn t already happened as t&c s on the hire agreement usually contain something regards fines and fees. I d probably pay it if non compliance is 600 euros.
Car hire firm cannot charge a credit card, it would be theft. They don't know if the "offence" ever occurred, and don't know who the driver was.Writing to anyone confirms you have received something, no wonder scams work so well.
Boohoo love your theft drama but OP will have ticked on the t&c’s. Here is Enterprise terms but probably similar to who provided the hire.
Enterprise terms & conditions state you're liable for all parking fines, tolls, and traffic violations incurred during your rental, plus an administration fee for processing these charges, which can include bus lane, congestion charges, and speeding tickets. You must pay these fines; Enterprise can use your details and share them with authorities to collect these penalties, potentially adding significant administration fees to the original fine.
Enterprise terms & conditions state you're liable for all parking fines, tolls, and traffic violations incurred during your rental, plus an administration fee for processing these charges, which can include bus lane, congestion charges, and speeding tickets. You must pay these fines; Enterprise can use your details and share them with authorities to collect these penalties, potentially adding significant administration fees to the original fine.
caziques said:
TonyF1 said:
The issue you may face is the hire car firm may to asked to pay it and charge against your credit card plus a nice admin fee if you don t engage. I m actually surprised this hasn t already happened as t&c s on the hire agreement usually contain something regards fines and fees. I d probably pay it if non compliance is 600 euros.
Car hire firm cannot charge a credit card, it would be theft. They don't know if the "offence" ever occurred, and don't know who the driver was.Writing to anyone confirms you have received something, no wonder scams work so well.
Only last year a colleague got a camera ticket 8 km/h over the limit in Germany, travelling to Sachsenring MotoGP. I had hired the car at airport and contract was in my name. They charged my card, then contacted me with the fine saying 'here it is for reference but don't pay it as we have already'.
Happens a lot, very normal the hire car company pay before you even know about it.
pitlane said:
Absolutely hire car companies do pay fines straight from your credit card and then let you know after.
Only last year a colleague got a camera ticket 8 km/h over the limit in Germany, travelling to Sachsenring MotoGP. I had hired the car at airport and contract was in my name. They charged my card, then contacted me with the fine saying 'here it is for reference but don't pay it as we have already'.
Happens a lot, very normal the hire car company pay before you even know about it.
Exactly this, the hire car company can and will charge you on the card used, this is why they ask for a credit card not a debit card.Only last year a colleague got a camera ticket 8 km/h over the limit in Germany, travelling to Sachsenring MotoGP. I had hired the car at airport and contract was in my name. They charged my card, then contacted me with the fine saying 'here it is for reference but don't pay it as we have already'.
Happens a lot, very normal the hire car company pay before you even know about it.
The hire company will be the registered keeper so the fine will go to them, they will then charge you.
Dont engage, bin it and dont respond.
Landlubber said:
Sorry but since May 2017, the EU Cross-Border Enforcement Directive has allowed enforcement authorities to pursue and fine drivers of vehicles registered in other EU countries. If the ticket is ignored they can (in theory) pass it on through dvla for enforcement.
Roll the dice.
The UK are no longer part of the EU (brexit ... remember) . DVLA should not be co-operating at all.Roll the dice.
driver67 said:
Landlubber said:
Sorry but since May 2017, the EU Cross-Border Enforcement Directive has allowed enforcement authorities to pursue and fine drivers of vehicles registered in other EU countries. If the ticket is ignored they can (in theory) pass it on through dvla for enforcement.
Roll the dice.
The UK are no longer part of the EU (brexit ... remember) . DVLA should not be co-operating at all.Roll the dice.
The Spanish have an agreement of this type with the DVLA as part of the Brexit withdrawal that allowed Brits taking residency under the withdrawal agreement to swap their British license for a Spanish license.
I would think they’ll use some sort of debt collection agency to pursue the fine.
Chris Stott said:
The DVLA may pass on driver details, but they won t pursue the driver for the offence themselves.
The Spanish have an agreement of this type with the DVLA as part of the Brexit withdrawal that allowed Brits taking residency under the withdrawal agreement to swap their British license for a Spanish license.
I would think they ll use some sort of debt collection agency to pursue the fine.
I understand all that but I'd rather as a country, we just told them to do one. The Spanish have an agreement of this type with the DVLA as part of the Brexit withdrawal that allowed Brits taking residency under the withdrawal agreement to swap their British license for a Spanish license.
I would think they ll use some sort of debt collection agency to pursue the fine.
No chance of that in the UK though with our corrupt politicians / civil servants still failing to properly implement what the population voted for.
driver67 said:
The UK are no longer part of the EU (brexit ... remember) . DVLA should not be co-operating at all.
I believe there is an agreement in place for DVLA to pass on details (as with many other organisations) and also there are arrangements that allow debt collectors to pursue Portugese fines such as these in the UK. Whether the debt is valid etc is a moot point though.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff