Legality of Penalty Charge

Author
Discussion

RM

Original Poster:

630 posts

104 months

Thursday
quotequote all
I'm waiting to see if I get one but thought this may be of interest to the parking experts here. It was photographed at the entrance to a University, with no associated terms and conditions. They are also liberally spread around the campus on the same moveable signs, again with no terms visible.



It suggests that if I had driven onto the campus and then parked at one of the many pay and display I would be fine, or if I had a valid permit. I did not park but just drove on and off the campus.

Can they legally issue me a penalty charge? My belief is they cannot but await being told otherwise!

ScoobyChris

1,809 posts

209 months

Thursday
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Typically there is a grace period of 10 minutes where you might decide after seeing the parking terms you don't want to park there, or there might not be any suitable spaces, etc. If they are members of the BPA (https://www.britishparking.co.uk/) they should follow this.

In answer to the question, legally they can issue a PCN but that doesn't mean it's valid, reasonable and needs paying wink

Chris

speedyman

1,560 posts

241 months

Thursday
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ScoobyChris said:
Typically there is a grace period of 10 minutes where you might decide after seeing the parking terms you don't want to park there, or there might not be any suitable spaces, etc. If they are members of the BPA (https://www.britishparking.co.uk/) they should follow this.

In answer to the question, legally they can issue a PCN but that doesn't mean it's valid, reasonable and needs paying wink

Chris
As a registered keeper of a vehicle I'm currently appealing a charge. Car in a cash only car park for six and a half minutes. The driver had only a card to pay, so left the car park in a reasonably quick time. No signs to say cash only or there is a time limit to pay. These companies are parasites, are you listening Parkingeye.

RM

Original Poster:

630 posts

104 months

Thursday
quotequote all
I didn't enter a car park with a view to parking, but to access the Goods Inward (I was getting a parcel incorrectly sent there) I had to drive through one.

But these signs are on the access roads. You can drive in and out of the campus without ever entering a car park, but will have passed several of these signs.

the-norseman

13,400 posts

178 months

Thursday
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I took a wrong turn a few nights ago into a car park with ANPR, drove round the car park and came back out after about 2 minutes, suspect I'm gonna get a letter at some point.

jeremyc

24,549 posts

291 months

Thursday
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How long do they claim you were there for?

Mrr T

13,012 posts

272 months

Thursday
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Totally unenforceable. No offer so no contract can be formed.

BertBert

19,699 posts

218 months

Thursday
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On Entry and Exit (sic) to what?
Bert

RM

Original Poster:

630 posts

104 months

Thursday
quotequote all
BertBert said:
On Entry and Exit (sic) to what?
Bert
On entry and exit to the university campus. It is out of town, covering a few hundred acres, and contains various roads and car parks. The signs are placed so visible when entering either of the two access roads, and dotted around the internal roads.

lancslad58

1,105 posts

15 months

Thursday
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You've not actually received a penalty charge accrding to you first post. so at the moment the no question of it being legal or not as it doesn't exist.

RM

Original Poster:

630 posts

104 months

Thursday
quotequote all
lancslad58 said:
You've not actually received a penalty charge accrding to you first post. so at the moment the no question of it being legal or not as it doesn't exist.
I have not received one and do not know if I will. But the signs are new and suggest that I will receive one. They pissed me off as another example of a parking company trying it on.

So your view is that it is legal to put a sign up stating they will pursue an action that would not be legal, if they don’t actually pursue that action? I’m not saying that is not the case, but it still pisses me off. Mrs RM has already said she will not enter the campus anymore, just in case.

skyebear

420 posts

13 months

Thursday
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Even if you accept British Parking as an "authority", rather than a group of outlaws and vagabonds, those signs are non-compliant with BP's code of practice.

Simpo Two

87,066 posts

272 months

Thursday
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To quote Rick from The Young Ones: 'Fascists!'

pavarotti1980

5,461 posts

91 months

Thursday
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RM said:
I'm waiting to see if I get one but thought this may be of interest to the parking experts here. It was photographed at the entrance to a University, with no associated terms and conditions. They are also liberally spread around the campus on the same moveable signs, again with no terms visible.



It suggests that if I had driven onto the campus and then parked at one of the many pay and display I would be fine, or if I had a valid permit. I did not park but just drove on and off the campus.

Can they legally issue me a penalty charge? My belief is they cannot but await being told otherwise!
The University or a 3rd party parking company could issue Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) for alleged breaches of contract. However they need to be a member of BPA or IPC, signs meet criteria as per POFA 2012 etc etc. They cannot however issue a "penalty" as they are not a statutory body such as local authority, police, TfL et al and could be challenged if one were issued. They are probably just opening a can of worms for themselves if they carry out the threat on the sign

You could make contact with them and tell them its a load of toot and look into the matter a little further

Uncle Meat

805 posts

257 months

Thursday
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What bugs me are the asterisks on that notice implying there should be some further text to clarify...unless it's on the other side laugh

Alex_225

6,680 posts

208 months

Yesterday (14:08)
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speedyman said:
As a registered keeper of a vehicle I'm currently appealing a charge. Car in a cash only car park for six and a half minutes. The driver had only a card to pay, so left the car park in a reasonably quick time. No signs to say cash only or there is a time limit to pay. These companies are parasites, are you listening Parkingeye.
You should get that turned over fairly easily. I used a link to the BPA best practice guide and it states there should be a grace period of at least 5 minutes to allow users to read and agree to rules, park etc. Then 10 minutes minimum at the end of parking.

For less than 7 minutes, they'd drop that. I went over by 9 minutes on a ticket, took 5 minutes to get in a space, pay etc. They tried to say I was 14 minutes over but dropped it when I cited those grace periods.

I despise these parking companies!

BertBert

19,699 posts

218 months

Yesterday (14:24)
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RM said:
BertBert said:
On Entry and Exit (sic) to what?
Bert
On entry and exit to the university campus. It is out of town, covering a few hundred acres, and contains various roads and car parks. The signs are placed so visible when entering either of the two access roads, and dotted around the internal roads.
So it's talking about entry to the campus needing a permit or "pay and display"? Or parking in a campus car park? It doesn't say.

RM

Original Poster:

630 posts

104 months

Yesterday (15:17)
quotequote all
BertBert said:
RM said:
BertBert said:
On Entry and Exit (sic) to what?
Bert
On entry and exit to the university campus. It is out of town, covering a few hundred acres, and contains various roads and car parks. The signs are placed so visible when entering either of the two access roads, and dotted around the internal roads.
So it's talking about entry to the campus needing a permit or "pay and display"? Or parking in a campus car park? It doesn't say.
Exactly, it doesn’t say. However these signs are placed along the access roads, they are not placed in the many car parks. The car parks have their own terms and conditions boards, from First Parking.

BertBert

19,699 posts

218 months

Yesterday (15:19)
quotequote all
RM said:
Exactly, it doesn’t say. However these signs are placed along the access roads, they are not placed in the many car parks. The car parks have their own terms and conditions boards, from First Parking.
Seems very unlikely that any kind of penalty will be forthcoming!

qwerty360

228 posts

52 months

Yesterday (15:46)
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I would assume the signs are then backed up by other signage in carparks (and documented permit rules, road markings etc)


People complain about signs not being visible.
Then complain about signs being too complex to read;

Now they will complain about extra signs warning that beyond this point all parking is going to be charged to give you extra opportunity to look for relevent detailed parking signage...


Sure, this sign isn't enough on its own; But it should be more than enough to prevent people arguing that they didn't see the full sign (despite it being highly visible) with the rules in the car park so didn't know they had to pay...