Roundabout etiquette Junction 4 M40 Handy Cross
Discussion
This is my regular commute, the 3 lanes approaching the Junction 4 M40 roundabout, destination is M4 London bound.
I am constantly being horned and I cannot understand why; am I in the wrong here?
I am sometimes in red lane 1; most often I approach in blue lane 2.
If I keep to the left blue lane 2, I get cut-up or horned; the expectation from that driver appears to be that you should veer to the right blue lane 2; but I cannot see anything to indicate this should be done.
Thoughts?
The three lanes become the furthest right 3 lanes on thee roundabout as you can use the left two lanes before the roundabout for M40 London. So if you are veering left from lane 2 into what becomes the second lane, you are indeed cutting people up from lane 1 who wants to go M40 London too.
The red lane 1 on John Hall Way splits into three possibilities, not two as you’ve drawn it. Red lane 1 traffic can peel off left onto Marlow Road, or if they want the A404 for Wycombe they have the choice of lanes 1 or 2 on the roundabout, or if they want M40 London they must use lane 2 on the roundabout.
If you are coming from the blue lane 2 on John Hall Way and for some reason you want to use lane 2 on the roundabout, you’ll need to be mindful of the conflict with traffic legitimately going from lane 1 on JHW into lane 2 on the roundabout. The more natural approach is to go from lane 2 on JHW into lane 3 on the roundabout, and for traffic in lane 3 on JHW to take up lane 4 on the roundabout.
This would be clearer if they painted some dotted markings to guide traffic in lanes 2 and 3 on JHW into lanes 3 and 4 respectively.
If you are coming from the blue lane 2 on John Hall Way and for some reason you want to use lane 2 on the roundabout, you’ll need to be mindful of the conflict with traffic legitimately going from lane 1 on JHW into lane 2 on the roundabout. The more natural approach is to go from lane 2 on JHW into lane 3 on the roundabout, and for traffic in lane 3 on JHW to take up lane 4 on the roundabout.
This would be clearer if they painted some dotted markings to guide traffic in lanes 2 and 3 on JHW into lanes 3 and 4 respectively.
I'm not sure where you're approaching from, but for me it is generally the A404 from Marlow direction.
Up until now I was always 100% convinced that the only lane with markings indicating the M40 to London was the rightmost lane on the roundabout. This lane also has markings indicating the A404 into Wycombe. I am frequently horrified by cars and massive lorries in the 2nd lane to the right turning right onto the M40, therefore cutting up any vehicles in the rightmost lane who are heading into Wycombe.
You have now made me doubt whether my reading of the road markings is correct. I will re-study them next time I'm there in daylight.
Up until now I was always 100% convinced that the only lane with markings indicating the M40 to London was the rightmost lane on the roundabout. This lane also has markings indicating the A404 into Wycombe. I am frequently horrified by cars and massive lorries in the 2nd lane to the right turning right onto the M40, therefore cutting up any vehicles in the rightmost lane who are heading into Wycombe.
You have now made me doubt whether my reading of the road markings is correct. I will re-study them next time I'm there in daylight.
Griffith4ever said:
megaphone said:
I use that junction regularly, I just choose the lane with the least traffic, then carve across once on the junction, indicating of course. leave the lemmings sitting in a queue.
This is the way.(I'm glad not everyone does this
)megaphone said:
I use that junction regularly, I just choose the lane with the least traffic, then carve across once on the junction, indicating of course. leave the lemmings sitting in a queue.
I go through there every now and again, and that's my tactic too. Same for M4 J11 that has even more lanes to choose from! croyde said:
Griffith4ever said:
megaphone said:
I use that junction regularly, I just choose the lane with the least traffic, then carve across once on the junction, indicating of course. leave the lemmings sitting in a queue.
This is the way.(I'm glad not everyone does this
)Soooo. I hoof it down the left lane, often faster than the traffic I've left on L1 of the motorway) then brake HARD at the roundabout, passing a long queue on my right, then check its clear on my right and fly round the roundabout/underpass - bonus is if anyone pulls out onto the roundabout as I'm approaching, I go round them on their left. Helps that I have a very fast awd :-)
G-wiz said:
This is my regular commute, the 3 lanes approaching the Junction 4 M40 roundabout, destination is M4 London bound.
I am constantly being horned and I cannot understand why; am I in the wrong here?
I am sometimes in red lane 1; most often I approach in blue lane 2.
If I keep to the left blue lane 2, I get cut-up or horned; the expectation from that driver appears to be that you should veer to the right blue lane 2; but I cannot see anything to indicate this should be done.
Thoughts?
The road markings are poor, yes, but that appears the most logical approach to me on what is, as you know, a very busy and congested junction, as it seems to me that approach would allow the most natural flow and merge.
As mentioned lane 1 on approach becomes lanes 1 and 2 on the roundabout, you can see the markings for A404 WYC confirming this. M40 LON is on lanes 1 and 2 on approach then lanes 2 and 3, with M40 OXFD in the remaining lane. Properly hard to see in traffic but I think in the bird's eye view it makes sense.
Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
The red lane 1 on John Hall Way splits into three possibilities, not two as you’ve drawn it. Red lane 1 traffic can peel off left onto Marlow Road, or if they want the A404 for Wycombe they have the choice of lanes 1 or 2 on the roundabout, or if they want M40 London they must use lane 2 on the roundabout.
If you are coming from the blue lane 2 on John Hall Way and for some reason you want to use lane 2 on the roundabout, you’ll need to be mindful of the conflict with traffic legitimately going from lane 1 on JHW into lane 2 on the roundabout. The more natural approach is to go from lane 2 on JHW into lane 3 on the roundabout, and for traffic in lane 3 on JHW to take up lane 4 on the roundabout.
This would be clearer if they painted some dotted markings to guide traffic in lanes 2 and 3 on JHW into lanes 3 and 4 respectively.
I agree that this is correct (and I use this roundabout perhaps once a month) -- but the road-markings are poor (and difficult to improve given the way the junction as a whole is laid out). If you are coming from the blue lane 2 on John Hall Way and for some reason you want to use lane 2 on the roundabout, you’ll need to be mindful of the conflict with traffic legitimately going from lane 1 on JHW into lane 2 on the roundabout. The more natural approach is to go from lane 2 on JHW into lane 3 on the roundabout, and for traffic in lane 3 on JHW to take up lane 4 on the roundabout.
This would be clearer if they painted some dotted markings to guide traffic in lanes 2 and 3 on JHW into lanes 3 and 4 respectively.
EW109 said:
I agree that this is correct (and I use this roundabout perhaps once a month) -- but the road-markings are poor (and difficult to improve given the way the junction as a whole is laid out).
Road markings:If the traffic is clear you can read them, but then the vehicle spacing means you don’t probably need them
If the traffic is heavy, you can’t read them, and that’s when you need them most.
Early roadside or gantry directions are best.
Having said all that, custom and practice will vary between rush hour traffic and daytime, school, or holiday traffic.
t show of a junction/roundabout, whoever put it together needs taking out and beaten over the head with a rotten salmon!I think the big issue with that roundabout is that the normal rule of staying with the left hand line of the junction you are in to guide you doesn't work. Having said that it all seems to work OK in the mornings as everyone know where they are/should go. The problems come at weekends when you have occasional users that really have no idea (and who can blame them). As others have said, often the best way is to get to the front of the queue, accelerate hard and choose your lane half way round. Due to the nature of the roundabout and the number of lanes you can usually do this without actually having to technically be in the wrong lane at any point.
And yes, I'd say Lane1 for the M40 to London. Your picture doesn't show how sharply the road bears to the left, which would make me feel like I was cutting up Lan1 to go to it from Lane2, despite what the signs say.
And yes, I'd say Lane1 for the M40 to London. Your picture doesn't show how sharply the road bears to the left, which would make me feel like I was cutting up Lan1 to go to it from Lane2, despite what the signs say.
Edited by varsas on Wednesday 13th November 12:56
I barely use it from that way, but yes, the expectation should always be, the driver next to you is a tw@t and doesnt know where their going.
I come off the M40 Southbound and around to Marlow for my commute, which is easy as I can use the inside lane (I usually go off to Marlow Bottom as it's quieter but if there's a bus infront I can join the a404 in lane 3).
If I'm ever leaving Wycombe it's for the M40 Northbound so again, I can hug the inside lane until needing the middle one.
It's people who go from the outside lane going across the m40, then carve across lane 2 across the 404 traffic, then across lane 3 where I am judging my lane correctly as it appears from nowhere past the a404 junction next to the m40 and spin back round the roundabout that wind me up. Even worse are the people sat at the lights and realise they dont want to go down this tiny small road, they need the m40. Then they try to get out which is never easy
I come off the M40 Southbound and around to Marlow for my commute, which is easy as I can use the inside lane (I usually go off to Marlow Bottom as it's quieter but if there's a bus infront I can join the a404 in lane 3).
If I'm ever leaving Wycombe it's for the M40 Northbound so again, I can hug the inside lane until needing the middle one.
It's people who go from the outside lane going across the m40, then carve across lane 2 across the 404 traffic, then across lane 3 where I am judging my lane correctly as it appears from nowhere past the a404 junction next to the m40 and spin back round the roundabout that wind me up. Even worse are the people sat at the lights and realise they dont want to go down this tiny small road, they need the m40. Then they try to get out which is never easy
beko1987 said:
Even worse are the people sat at the lights and realise they dont want to go down this tiny small road, they need the m40. Then they try to get out which is never easy
Agreed, but the driver doesn't have to be an idiot for them to find themselves in the wrong lane there given the uncertainty about the lanes splitting just before those lights. It could easily be me if I didn't know the junction so I give them some slack.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff