Those crash for cash scams

[Dynion Araf Uchaf]

If you are unfortunate and become a victim to a crash for cash scam, what could you actually do to stop the scammers from being successful in claiming against your insurance?

I guess a dash cam is of primary importance, but if you don't have one of those what else could you do to thwart their scam ( I am assuming that ultimately that despite protesting to the insurance company, its 'he said she said', and so your insurer pays out and all the consequential prices hikes you pay for.

So could you:

drive off, before they get your licence number?
counter claim for an injury and go to court, for a magistrate to decide what actually happened
claim you're not insured ( by lying to the scammer by saying you are driving a friends car for example)
call the Police, and when they arrive tell them you think you are not insured, and get them to tell the scammers such news.

Obviously this is only when a lay person might look at the facts and conclude it's a scam ( e.g 4 people get out of a car, holding their necks, in an area where there are loads of these accidents). I am also assuming that unless there is a serious injury the police won't get too involved.

Just interested in the legal position and what could actually be done to thwart the scam.

[TownIdiot]

Legally all you can do is go through the system and argue your case

Dashcam will help as if you can show they acted in an unreasonable manner you can win the argument even if you smash them up the rear

It's not quite as big a deal as it once was as the profits are much less than they were.

[Dog Star]

There’s very little you can do - from personal/family experience in the North West you can have photographic evidence of damage and circumstances and your insurer will just pay out - plus thousands and thousands in injuries for a car with damage limited to a cracked reg plate, yet miraculously the driver could not work, help his wife or go on his hajj. Paid out.

Having said that a mate of mine witnessed a blatant one with a deliberately caused nudge in the rear and four occupants got out rubbing necks etc. it ended up in the courts as this group were in cahoots with a body shop who had a bit of a production line going patching up and repainting bumpers and replacing them. 15 crash for cash rear ends in seven days! Made the news. Was about ten years ago but I’ll see if I can find a link.

[Dog Star]

Heh..... no doubt these areas have nothing in common.....

The 30 Postcodes With The Most ‘Crash For Cash’ Incidents

B25 Birmingham
B34 Birmingham
B8 Birmingham
BD7 Bradford
BD3 Bradford
WS1 Walsall
BB9 Blackburn
BD8 Bradford
B27 Birmingham
RM18 Romford
B33 Birmingham
WF13 Wakefield
BD15 Bradford
OL8 Oldham
HX1 Halifax
M8 Manchester
LS8 Leeds
N9 North London
WF16 Wakefield
LU3 Luton
WS2 Walsall
BD2 Bradford
BD5 Bradford
B11 Birmingham
HP12 High Wycombe
B28 Birmingham
RM8 Romford
LU4 Luton
IG3 Ilford
BD9 Bradford

[Dynion Araf Uchaf]

TownIdiot said:

Legally all you can do is go through the system and argue your case

Dashcam will help as if you can show they acted in an unreasonable manner you can win the argument even if you smash them up the rear

It's not quite as big a deal as it once was as the profits are much less than they were.

this is the thing. Payouts might be less, but it's not nice if you are a victim.
My view is - if you are alert enough to the scam, that is you are not in shock, you could

a) drive off ( if car is driveable). Is a scammer going to chase you? They might report you for not stopping at an accident, but then you get your opportunity in court to deny this, and in any case, are the scammers going to turn up? You could also legitmately claim that you feared for your life/thought it might be a car jacking. Although you'd have to drive directly to somewhere safe - eg Police station
b) you get out of the car and without missing a beat, tell the scammers that you are not insured. You were taking the car for an MOT and it's failed. So they can't claim.

Based on the principal that the scammers want an easy life ( fill a form in a wait for the compo) I don't think they would continue with trying to scam you.

[TownIdiot]

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

this is the thing. Payouts might be less, but it's not nice if you are a victim.
My view is - if you are alert enough to the scam, that is you are not in shock, you could

a) drive off ( if car is driveable). Is a scammer going to chase you? They might report you for not stopping at an accident, but then you get your opportunity in court to deny this, and in any case, are the scammers going to turn up? You could also legitmately claim that you feared for your life/thought it might be a car jacking. Although you'd have to drive directly to somewhere safe - eg Police station
b) you get out of the car and without missing a beat, tell the scammers that you are not insured. You were taking the car for an MOT and it's failed. So they can't claim.

Based on the principal that the scammers want an easy life ( fill a form in a wait for the compo) I don't think they would continue with trying to scam you.

Neither would work as It is easy to find out if you are insured or not.
Most of the scams were highly organised, with professional backing and plenty of capital - not just one off chancers. (although obviously there are some of them)

[av185]

Dog Star said:

Heh..... no doubt these areas have nothing in common.....

The 30 Postcodes With The Most ‘Crash For Cash’ Incidents

B25 Birmingham
B34 Birmingham
B8 Birmingham
BD7 Bradford
BD3 Bradford
WS1 Walsall
BB9 Blackburn
BD8 Bradford
B27 Birmingham
RM18 Romford
B33 Birmingham
WF13 Wakefield
BD15 Bradford
OL8 Oldham
HX1 Halifax
M8 Manchester
LS8 Leeds
N9 North London
WF16 Wakefield
LU3 Luton
WS2 Walsall
BD2 Bradford
BD5 Bradford
B11 Birmingham
HP12 High Wycombe
B28 Birmingham
RM8 Romford
LU4 Luton
IG3 Ilford
BD9 Bradford

No surprise scummy Bradford and Birmingham yet again top of the scam heap.

[Tommo87]

You could wait until they pull over, park in front and then…….


….. reverse backwards into their car and then claim THEY drove into you.

1. karma

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

If you are unfortunate and become a victim to a crash for cash scam, what could you actually do to stop the scammers from being successful in claiming against your insurance?

Not crash into them.

I get that occasionally they change lanes, pull in front of you and immediately hit the brakes, in which case there's little you can do. But most cases I've seen aren't like that. Most of the time it's just them slamming on the brakes for no reason, in which case if you've left a big enough gap, or going slow enough, you shouldn't be hitting them.

[MitchT]

Used to work in BD8 and commute home to BD16. Learned very quickly that, if stopped at lights or in queueing traffic, let the car in front get a good gap before setting off yourself. Common trick was for them to set off and then immediately slam the brakes on. They'd be four-up in their car and once a collision was achieved three would pile out, disappear, and then promptly reappear pretending to be witnesses.

Other joys of this commute were that red traffic lights didn't apply, speed limits didn't apply, giving way at junctions didn't apply, driving on the correct side of the road didn't apply. Lost count of the number of times the traffic coming the other way would be queueing and there'd be someone overtaking the lot of them and would just drive straight towards you at unabated speed with the utter conviction that you'd get out of their way, which you had to to avoid a head on crash.

[cashmax]

I thought this was a thing of the past now that whiplash claims had been capped at semi sensible money?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

cashmax said:

I thought this was a thing of the past now that whiplash claims had been capped at semi sensible money?

It is, but people still like to convince themselves they're a victim of such a scam when in truth, they've just crashed into the back of someone.

[Dunclane]

MitchT said:

Used to work in BD8 and commute home to BD16. Learned very quickly that, if stopped at lights or in queueing traffic, let the car in front get a good gap before setting off yourself. Common trick was for them to set off and then immediately slam the brakes on. They'd be four-up in their car and once a collision was achieved three would pile out, disappear, and then promptly reappear pretending to be witnesses.

Other joys of this commute were that red traffic lights didn't apply, speed limits didn't apply, giving way at junctions didn't apply, driving on the correct side of the road didn't apply. Lost count of the number of times the traffic coming the other way would be queueing and there'd be someone overtaking the lot of them and would just drive straight towards you at unabated speed with the utter conviction that you'd get out of their way, which you had to to avoid a head on crash.

Sounds exactly like driving in B10 & B11 in Birmingham, it's a free for all!

[TownIdiot]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

cashmax said:

I thought this was a thing of the past now that whiplash claims had been capped at semi sensible money?

It is, but people still like to convince themselves they're a victim of such a scam when in truth, they've just crashed into the back of someone.

It's not just the injury claim that has reduced but all the fees available to solicitors and finance houses. Even car hire is less profitable.
Still some money in the "bent metal"

Most of the industrial level scams were run by very well capitalised groups - the people doing the actual crashing were just a small link in the chain.

Obviously there was also a lot of people who feigned injury as well, but that was also made possible by the same groups as above.
Most have moved on to other types of claims these days.

[thetapeworm]

We found that even with some evidence and the insurer acknowledging they know it's a scam they will pay out as its cheaper than fighting it.

Decent front and rear dashcams are a must, ideally with GPS and then it's just a case of being constantly on the defensive.

[TUS373]

MitchT said:

Used to work in BD8 and commute home to BD16. Learned very quickly that, if stopped at lights or in queueing traffic, let the car in front get a good gap before setting off yourself. Common trick was for them to set off and then immediately slam the brakes on. They'd be four-up in their car and once a collision was achieved three would pile out, disappear, and then promptly reappear pretending to be witnesses.

Other joys of this commute were that red traffic lights didn't apply, speed limits didn't apply, giving way at junctions didn't apply, driving on the correct side of the road didn't apply. Lost count of the number of times the traffic coming the other way would be queueing and there'd be someone overtaking the lot of them and would just drive straight towards you at unabated speed with the utter conviction that you'd get out of their way, which you had to to avoid a head on crash.

My earlier post was removed by moderators as being 'casually offensive racist'. Sign of the times but clearly someone was upset, but the statement above is also my experience of driving in Bradford, and more recently Oldham.

It is a sight to behold to see a vehicle coming from behind, travelling at speed, to overtake a queue of traffic at a red light, move first onto the wrong side of the road, and then on meeting oncoming traffic, on to the pavement. Have you ever seen an overtake on the pavement side of a BUS STOP and street lights, then back on the road and turn left on a RED LIGHT? The thing is - there is most certainly a particular type of young, male driver, normally driving either a black or white Golf GTI/R32, Audi A3/S3, Mercedes A class AMG, or BMW 1 Series. Some survive but I have seen many a roadside shrine with flowers and a photo. There is one in Leeds where there is a sign that said "XXXXX loved his Audi". I kid you not.

These guys go on to hire Lamborghinis for weddings and terrorise the roads with wreckless driving. It is a fact. But...time and again they get away with this extremely dangerous use of a vehicle and the problem is growing.

[Mr_Megalomaniac]

Dog Star said:

Heh..... no doubt these areas have nothing in common.....

The 30 Postcodes With The Most ‘Crash For Cash’ Incidents

B25 Birmingham
B34 Birmingham
B8 Birmingham
BD7 Bradford
BD3 Bradford
WS1 Walsall
BB9 Blackburn
BD8 Bradford
B27 Birmingham
RM18 Romford
B33 Birmingham
WF13 Wakefield
BD15 Bradford
OL8 Oldham
HX1 Halifax
M8 Manchester
LS8 Leeds
N9 North London
WF16 Wakefield
LU3 Luton
WS2 Walsall
BD2 Bradford
BD5 Bradford
B11 Birmingham
HP12 High Wycombe
B28 Birmingham
RM8 Romford
LU4 Luton
IG3 Ilford
BD9 Bradford

Gosh, what do they all have in common I wonder.

[Forester1965]

Good curry houses.

[98elise]

TownIdiot said:

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

this is the thing. Payouts might be less, but it's not nice if you are a victim.
My view is - if you are alert enough to the scam, that is you are not in shock, you could

a) drive off ( if car is driveable). Is a scammer going to chase you? They might report you for not stopping at an accident, but then you get your opportunity in court to deny this, and in any case, are the scammers going to turn up? You could also legitmately claim that you feared for your life/thought it might be a car jacking. Although you'd have to drive directly to somewhere safe - eg Police station
b) you get out of the car and without missing a beat, tell the scammers that you are not insured. You were taking the car for an MOT and it's failed. So they can't claim.

Based on the principal that the scammers want an easy life ( fill a form in a wait for the compo) I don't think they would continue with trying to scam you.

Neither would work as It is easy to find out if you are insured or not.
Most of the scams were highly organised, with professional backing and plenty of capital - not just one off chancers. (although obviously there are some of them)

Definitely some chancers still.

My daughter lightly tapped a car (golf) in front of her at a roundabout and there was no visible damage.

The guy immediately started saying his neck hurt. Fortunately this was a busy roundabout and a passing copper stopped. First thing they asked was any injuries, and the guy said no (I would have asked what happened to his neck pain!)

Roll on a few days and the guy contacts her about damage to the car but says he's happy to agree a cash settlement rather than go through insurance. We reply back that we'll happily pay for repairs at a dealership so just take it to VW for a quote.

Another few days go by and he says no need as his mate has fixed it for £20, so that's what we sent him!

Still a scam, but it was my daughters fault and she learnt a cheap lesson.

Edited by 98elise on Sunday 3rd November 14:31

[thetapeworm]

A slight crack on a numberplate from the fraudster setting off and driving into a 2 car gap and then my wife's towbar as she moved back very slowly to let a HGV get through led to £1000s being paid out when he put a claim in.

Apparently he had a hire car, claimed for injuries and time off work as well as damage to the car.

They sent a chap out to measure the contact points on ours, saw my photos showing the grime on the back was untouched aside from a small mark on the tow bar cover and viewed the (sadly front only) dashcam showing the speed involved (snail like).

They said they knew he was trying it on and that all evidence supported this but that fighting it would cost more than just paying out.

He was a doctor from Bradford.

Things would have no doubt played out very differently if I'd been in the car rather than my easier to intimidate wife.