Friend's driving without insurance - advice

Friend's driving without insurance - advice

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joropug

Original Poster:

2,696 posts

196 months

Tuesday 22nd October
quotequote all
Hi all,

A friend who is residing in the UK (Ukrainian) drove without insurance (valid licence) in April.

She paid a fine of circa £300 near the time. She has now received papers from the court about her plea, but given she has paid a fine she was under the impression that she had already plead guilty?

The document is titled Single Justice Procedure Notice and she has plea options, there is no mention of a fine.

Is it the case that this is finalising the conviction ? She is worried that there is another yet to be determined fine.

Another note is that her licence is Ukrainian and so I'm not sure if the online portal will support her plea - she is working on it this evening. Additionally, I am not sure how points work - She is under the impression that her Ukrainian licence will be valid for 50 years here so didn't intend on changing it for a UK one - Everything I have found online suggests its 3 years (she is still under this, and doesn't actually own a car).

Any advice I can give would be appreciated to close it off for her.

Aretnap

1,691 posts

158 months

Tuesday 22nd October
quotequote all
The £300 sounds like a fixed penalty. To accept the fixed penalty (and thus avoid prosecution) she needed not only to pay the £300 but also provide her driving licence details - and I believe some forces still require you to send in your physical licence as well. Are you sure she did all this correctly? It catches a lot of people out, and I would guess it's worse when English isn't your first language.

If she didn't comply with all the requirements for the fixed penalty then she should have the £300 refunded in due course, and it will progress to court instead. If she did comply with all the requirements then prosecution should not happen - but my guess is that she's missed something.

If she doesn't have a UK licence then the DVLA will create a shadow driving record to record her points - and accumulating 12 would lead to a (UK specific) ban.

You're right that she will need to exchange her Ukrainian licence for a UK one after 3 years if she wants to keep driving in Britain. IIRC a Ukrainian licence can only be exchanged for a UK automatic licence - if she wanted a manual license she would have to pass a UK driving test. I presume (without actually checking) that this is because the Ukrainian driving test doesn't differentiate between manual and automatic cars like the UK one.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/driving-in-great-brita...

joropug

Original Poster:

2,696 posts

196 months

Tuesday 22nd October
quotequote all
Aretnap said:
The £300 sounds like a fixed penalty. To accept the fixed penalty (and thus avoid prosecution) she needed not only to pay the £300 but also provide her driving licence details - and I believe some forces still require you to send in your physical licence as well. Are you sure she did all this correctly? It catches a lot of people out, and I would guess it's worse when English isn't your first language.

If she didn't comply with all the requirements for the fixed penalty then she should have the £300 refunded in due course, and it will progress to court instead. If she did comply with all the requirements then prosecution should not happen - but my guess is that she's missed something.

If she doesn't have a UK licence then the DVLA will create a shadow driving record to record her points - and accumulating 12 would lead to a (UK specific) ban.

You're right that she will need to exchange her Ukrainian licence for a UK one after 3 years if she wants to keep driving in Britain. IIRC a Ukrainian licence can only be exchanged for a UK automatic licence - if she wanted a manual license she would have to pass a UK driving test. I presume (without actually checking) that this is because the Ukrainian driving test doesn't differentiate between manual and automatic cars like the UK one.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/driving-in-great-brita...
Thanks for the reply. Yes I suspect this is the case.

The incident is before I knew her, the individual who owned the car paid the £300 and she saw this took place however I suspect as they are no longer in contact they probably had a refund and thought F it. She didn’t surrender a licence rightly or wrongly as she didn’t have a uk one - this must be the cause.

It does say on the paperwork provide your uk licence details if you have one, it could be clearer what you should do if you don’t if that’s the case.

skyebear

404 posts

13 months

Tuesday 22nd October
quotequote all
You could do worse than stick a post on FTLA dot uk.

joropug

Original Poster:

2,696 posts

196 months

Tuesday 22nd October
quotequote all
skyebear said:
You could do worse than stick a post on FTLA dot uk.
Tried to sign up emails not coming through ! Will do when it comes cheers

mgtony

4,064 posts

197 months

Wednesday 23rd October
quotequote all
Was the £300 she saw the car owner pay, possibly the recovery fee if the car was seized at the time?

joropug

Original Poster:

2,696 posts

196 months

Wednesday 23rd October
quotequote all
mgtony said:
Was the £300 she saw the car owner pay, possibly the recovery fee if the car was seized at the time?
I said the same thing - she was sure it was the fine for no insurance.

milesgiles

1,019 posts

36 months

Wednesday 23rd October
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why did she think she didn’t need insurance?

Mandat

4,000 posts

245 months

Wednesday 23rd October
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milesgiles said:
why did she think she didn’t need insurance?
She is Ukrainian and she most likely though that the insurance worked the same as in Ukraine, where the car is insured, therefore anyone can drive it.

MustangGT

12,253 posts

287 months

Wednesday 23rd October
quotequote all
joropug said:
I said the same thing - she was sure it was the fine for no insurance.
Who was it paid to? She would have had some legal paperwork for this somewhere.

croyde

23,892 posts

237 months

Wednesday 23rd October
quotequote all
The system of the car being insured not the person is used in many countries.

Just interested on how that works with risk, age, experience, value, location, job etc?

joropug

Original Poster:

2,696 posts

196 months

Wednesday 23rd October
quotequote all
Yes this I believe, it wasn’t her car - she got pulled over minutes after setting off.

She was very worried about it all last night so haven’t pressed - I will encourage her to just pay the fine online if that’s how it works as she is up against the deadline - figure out if it was returned after or not. Receiving court documents is very scary for someone who is not in their home country, even it is fairly trivial by most standards for motoring convictions.

Semmelweiss

1,755 posts

203 months

Wednesday 23rd October
quotequote all
According to the Single Justice procedure, it's more than just paying the fine. She probably needs some help in completing the requirements to make sure she complies.

Jaybee1981

56 posts

126 months

Wednesday 23rd October
quotequote all
I was caught speeding on my non UK/Non EU license.


Policeman told me as i am not a UK resident and license holder it would go to court,
However, if i pay a 'deposit' of X amount i will not need to attend court, a fine will be charged in my absense and a ghost license created with points put against it.

The exact value of the deposit would be the fine.

Maybe its this?

joropug

Original Poster:

2,696 posts

196 months

Wednesday 23rd October
quotequote all
Jaybee1981 said:
I was caught speeding on my non UK/Non EU license.


Policeman told me as i am not a UK resident and license holder it would go to court,
However, if i pay a 'deposit' of X amount i will not need to attend court, a fine will be charged in my absense and a ghost license created with points put against it.

The exact value of the deposit would be the fine.

Maybe its this?
Possibly, I think if she does nothing it will just be applied by default but the fine is bigger - doesn’t want an outstanding fine more than anything . Licence is secondary .

Was going to add her to my insurance for a road trip but guess it will be a head ache - will see closer to the time I guess

agtlaw

6,903 posts

213 months

Thursday 24th October
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skyebear said:
You could do worse than stick a post on FTLA dot uk.
Foolish Traffic Legal Advice dot com.

Biggest fool on there is NewJudge.

Avoid.

James P

2,980 posts

244 months

Thursday 24th October
quotequote all
croyde said:
The system of the car being insured not the person is used in many countries.

Just interested on how that works with risk, age, experience, value, location, job etc?
In Italy at least (my location) it just makes having insurance very expensive. I couldn’t carry my UK no claims over so the first year insuring a 1996 Panda 900 cost about half its cost.

joropug

Original Poster:

2,696 posts

196 months

Thursday 24th October
quotequote all
Thanks all believe form submitted by post couldn’t do it online, hopefully sorted for her.

martinbiz

3,367 posts

152 months

Thursday 24th October
quotequote all
James P said:
croyde said:
The system of the car being insured not the person is used in many countries.

Just interested on how that works with risk, age, experience, value, location, job etc?
In Italy at least (my location) it just makes having insurance very expensive. I couldn’t carry my UK no claims over so the first year insuring a 1996 Panda 900 cost about half its cost.
Yes, convenient but expensive. We have a little Punto kept out in Sicily at my late FIL's place, it costs over a thousand euros a year to insure, but covers anyone from 18

James P

2,980 posts

244 months

Friday 25th October
quotequote all
martinbiz said:
Yes, convenient but expensive. We have a little Punto kept out in Sicily at my late FIL's place, it costs over a thousand euros a year to insure, but covers anyone from 18
We’re Sicily too, perhaps my €600 is a better deal than I thought.