Why aren’t there more Zebra crossings?
Discussion
Maybe it’s a result of living in the Cambridge area, where local councillors are obsessed with complexity (is there a simple urban roundabout with 28 traffic lights on it anywhere else in the country?), but I can’t help wondering why simple solutions are seemingly not considered?
In the case of the various ‘million pound(+)’ roundabouts, a can of white paint would appear to achieve the same thing and probably be less confusing to all users and hence safer.
In addition, I can think of many (often more rural) situations that are crying out for formal crossing points, where people have been wittering on about tunnels and bridges for years. Put a zebra crossing there and you’ve at least reduced the risk - if only by forcing drivers to be more aware.
Finally, the recent Highway Code changes (which have generally been quite successful in my opinion) have one glaring problem, and that is ambiguity around crossing points at roundabouts. The paint tin again seems the answer. Close to home I recently saw endless faffing around with the ‘McDonalds’ roundabout on the A505, supposedly (I think?) to help cyclists. Most of the changes were rapidly removed due to their (obvious) effect on traffic flows. However all that would have been needed was to paint a Zebra on each junction and job’s a good un.
Is there some sort of legal restriction to the use of Zebras that prevents those responsible for traffic planning to reach for them as a first resort?
In the case of the various ‘million pound(+)’ roundabouts, a can of white paint would appear to achieve the same thing and probably be less confusing to all users and hence safer.
In addition, I can think of many (often more rural) situations that are crying out for formal crossing points, where people have been wittering on about tunnels and bridges for years. Put a zebra crossing there and you’ve at least reduced the risk - if only by forcing drivers to be more aware.
Finally, the recent Highway Code changes (which have generally been quite successful in my opinion) have one glaring problem, and that is ambiguity around crossing points at roundabouts. The paint tin again seems the answer. Close to home I recently saw endless faffing around with the ‘McDonalds’ roundabout on the A505, supposedly (I think?) to help cyclists. Most of the changes were rapidly removed due to their (obvious) effect on traffic flows. However all that would have been needed was to paint a Zebra on each junction and job’s a good un.
Is there some sort of legal restriction to the use of Zebras that prevents those responsible for traffic planning to reach for them as a first resort?
because they are cheap
Traffic management has been outsourced by most local authorities. The companies responsible for it all now do not benefit from cheap traffic maangament. They make a fortune from making things as complicated, timeconsuming and costly as possible to install. We have an excellent example of this here on the Isle of Wight - St Marys roundbaout if you know it was replaced by 57 sets of traffic lights. dont get me wrong its was not perfect for an hour or so in the AM and the PM but for the other 22 hours a day never held anyone up for more than a few seconds. Thats 57 sets that need maintaining etc
Traffic management has been outsourced by most local authorities. The companies responsible for it all now do not benefit from cheap traffic maangament. They make a fortune from making things as complicated, timeconsuming and costly as possible to install. We have an excellent example of this here on the Isle of Wight - St Marys roundbaout if you know it was replaced by 57 sets of traffic lights. dont get me wrong its was not perfect for an hour or so in the AM and the PM but for the other 22 hours a day never held anyone up for more than a few seconds. Thats 57 sets that need maintaining etc
Certainly seems that complexity and slowing traffic down is the priority, rather than just crossings themselves.
The onset of "cyclops" junctions is a faff. One near me that I read cost 25 million pounds to build has already had traffic light failures and been adjusted within 12 months of it being completed. It replaced a perfectly functional roundabout that I discovered had 1 recorded fatal accident in a decade. Now it's a junction that manages to hold traffic back until late into the evening. At least there's a cycle path around it (that all the cyclists ignore in favour of staying on the roads) and a pedestrian path to get to a train station that's been done up that must serve.. Ooooh.. Dozens of people a day. It's an eye sore and a waste of money when there is an existing, and still used, traffic light controlled crossing directly next to the station. Now, when the lights go green, you've got to check a pink lane for pedestrians both ways and a green lane for any cyclists that want it to take forever to get around the junction and have ignored their own special traffic lights. Stop inventing s**t that doesn't need inventing.
The onset of "cyclops" junctions is a faff. One near me that I read cost 25 million pounds to build has already had traffic light failures and been adjusted within 12 months of it being completed. It replaced a perfectly functional roundabout that I discovered had 1 recorded fatal accident in a decade. Now it's a junction that manages to hold traffic back until late into the evening. At least there's a cycle path around it (that all the cyclists ignore in favour of staying on the roads) and a pedestrian path to get to a train station that's been done up that must serve.. Ooooh.. Dozens of people a day. It's an eye sore and a waste of money when there is an existing, and still used, traffic light controlled crossing directly next to the station. Now, when the lights go green, you've got to check a pink lane for pedestrians both ways and a green lane for any cyclists that want it to take forever to get around the junction and have ignored their own special traffic lights. Stop inventing s**t that doesn't need inventing.
Personally, I think the whole "traffic management" thing has gone mad.
A cross-roads used to have 4 sets of lights (one with filters could have a few more obviously) they now have at least 12 on even the smallest one near me.
Every roundabout was just that a roundabout, they now have to have traffic lights also.
Every crossing was just a crossing, they now must have lights & islands.
It seems we now are moving to idiot proof roads rather than education.
A cross-roads used to have 4 sets of lights (one with filters could have a few more obviously) they now have at least 12 on even the smallest one near me.
Every roundabout was just that a roundabout, they now have to have traffic lights also.
Every crossing was just a crossing, they now must have lights & islands.
It seems we now are moving to idiot proof roads rather than education.
Any common sense left the building years ago. Eg Traffic light controlled lane closure (traffic galore) because of minor work on the footpath etc. make sure to leave them up for a week extra cos obviously the team that collects them must be ultra busy. Traffic lights everywhere. Mini roundabouts on every suburban former T junction. Speed bumps on nearly every road now in London.
In many cases, the new highway code makes many zebra crossings obsolete, as pedestrians have priority at junctions.
In other cases, zebra crossings don't work, because it doesn't take a huge number of pedestrians to reduce the flow of cars (etc) to zero.
There was one in Bristol which brought everything to a halt with the first influx of xmas shoppers.
I think it was right near the offices of the local rag or radio station, so got a bit of coverage!
In other cases, zebra crossings don't work, because it doesn't take a huge number of pedestrians to reduce the flow of cars (etc) to zero.
There was one in Bristol which brought everything to a halt with the first influx of xmas shoppers.
I think it was right near the offices of the local rag or radio station, so got a bit of coverage!
OutInTheShed said:
In many cases, the new highway code makes many zebra crossings obsolete, as pedestrians have priority at junctions.
In other cases, zebra crossings don't work, because it doesn't take a huge number of pedestrians to reduce the flow of cars (etc) to zero.
There was one in Bristol which brought everything to a halt with the first influx of xmas shoppers.
I think it was right near the offices of the local rag or radio station, so got a bit of coverage!
You are technically correct on the first one - but as mentioned, the principal has failed totally at roundabouts. Something else is required there.In other cases, zebra crossings don't work, because it doesn't take a huge number of pedestrians to reduce the flow of cars (etc) to zero.
There was one in Bristol which brought everything to a halt with the first influx of xmas shoppers.
I think it was right near the offices of the local rag or radio station, so got a bit of coverage!
I’m not suggesting that Zebras are the answer to everything, but I bet there are more examples of the high tech solutions causing problems than there are versions of the issue you mention. It would all depend on foot/pedal fall. A constant stream would obviously be problematic for a Zebra, but red lights could cause unnecessary hold-ups in many other situations where pedestrians and cyclists were fewer.
OutInTheShed said:
In other cases, zebra crossings don't work, because it doesn't take a huge number of pedestrians to reduce the flow of cars (etc) to zero.
Zebra crossings are to allow pedestrians to cross the road... not to stop the traffic. To stop traffic I recommend a wheelbarrow on the pavement, with 400 yards of road coned off over across a junction. Leave it for a month. That's how you stop traffic...NB Most zebra crossings are barely visible because they used solvent-free eco-paint which wears off.
If you thought that Zebra crossings were too easy to use, how about leaf crossings?
Sorry for the Mail link
Facebook is full of idiots trying to justify the fact that it is so confusing to drivers making them slow down as a good thing. When it was first opened a child ran out into road to see the leaf markings!
It is a roundabout? Should the van at the bottom of the photo go around the island if he wants to turn right or just cut across the rainbow bit? Are the white leaves a pedestrian crossing or not? I can't tell from the Highway Code.
Sorry for the Mail link
Facebook is full of idiots trying to justify the fact that it is so confusing to drivers making them slow down as a good thing. When it was first opened a child ran out into road to see the leaf markings!
It is a roundabout? Should the van at the bottom of the photo go around the island if he wants to turn right or just cut across the rainbow bit? Are the white leaves a pedestrian crossing or not? I can't tell from the Highway Code.
Tycho said:
If you thought that Zebra crossings were too easy to use, how about leaf crossings?
Sorry for the Mail link
Facebook is full of idiots trying to justify the fact that it is so confusing to drivers making them slow down as a good thing. When it was first opened a child ran out into road to see the leaf markings!
It is a roundabout? Should the van at the bottom of the photo go around the island if he wants to turn right or just cut across the rainbow bit? Are the white leaves a pedestrian crossing or not? I can't tell from the Highway Code.
Pretty obvious to me, it’s a pedestrian space that cars can creep through at walking space. Like the way car parks are supposed to work, unless you’re in an automatic SUV of course.Sorry for the Mail link
Facebook is full of idiots trying to justify the fact that it is so confusing to drivers making them slow down as a good thing. When it was first opened a child ran out into road to see the leaf markings!
It is a roundabout? Should the van at the bottom of the photo go around the island if he wants to turn right or just cut across the rainbow bit? Are the white leaves a pedestrian crossing or not? I can't tell from the Highway Code.
There's a YouTube channel, Auto Shenanigans, that features some utterly bizarre and expensive roads and traffic control solutions implemented by councils and highways agencies.
As others have said, these decisions only make sense if you think of them in terms of profits and kickbacks.
As others have said, these decisions only make sense if you think of them in terms of profits and kickbacks.
Edited by skyebear on Thursday 10th October 09:45
Rough101 said:
Tycho said:
If you thought that Zebra crossings were too easy to use, how about leaf crossings?
Sorry for the Mail link
Facebook is full of idiots trying to justify the fact that it is so confusing to drivers making them slow down as a good thing. When it was first opened a child ran out into road to see the leaf markings!
It is a roundabout? Should the van at the bottom of the photo go around the island if he wants to turn right or just cut across the rainbow bit? Are the white leaves a pedestrian crossing or not? I can't tell from the Highway Code.
Pretty obvious to me, it’s a pedestrian space that cars can creep through at walking space. Like the way car parks are supposed to work, unless you’re in an automatic SUV of course.Sorry for the Mail link
Facebook is full of idiots trying to justify the fact that it is so confusing to drivers making them slow down as a good thing. When it was first opened a child ran out into road to see the leaf markings!
It is a roundabout? Should the van at the bottom of the photo go around the island if he wants to turn right or just cut across the rainbow bit? Are the white leaves a pedestrian crossing or not? I can't tell from the Highway Code.
Tycho said:
If you thought that Zebra crossings were too easy to use, how about leaf crossings?
Sorry for the Mail link
Facebook is full of idiots trying to justify the fact that it is so confusing to drivers making them slow down as a good thing. When it was first opened a child ran out into road to see the leaf markings!
It is a roundabout? Should the van at the bottom of the photo go around the island if he wants to turn right or just cut across the rainbow bit? Are the white leaves a pedestrian crossing or not? I can't tell from the Highway Code.
No signs or markings, well that's just a free for all then, biggest 'user' wins. I've got a zebra crossing nearby around the corner from a school that a kid got run over on recently, wide open clear sight lined 30mph urban clearway, community group now pressuring councils for lollipop lady or whatever they're called this week.Sorry for the Mail link
Facebook is full of idiots trying to justify the fact that it is so confusing to drivers making them slow down as a good thing. When it was first opened a child ran out into road to see the leaf markings!
It is a roundabout? Should the van at the bottom of the photo go around the island if he wants to turn right or just cut across the rainbow bit? Are the white leaves a pedestrian crossing or not? I can't tell from the Highway Code.
One reason is belisha beacons (hence why cycle tracks where they aren't required often get a bunch more zebras)
Solution would be allow reflective warning signs to be used instead (if drivers in an austrian ski resort (so tourist central) can cope with stopping for a zebra that I only realised existed on day 4 when the snow melted enough to see the on road markings then british drivers really shouldn't have a problem in UK weather)
Because this would make it a LOT cheaper to install them (and harder to argue for traffic lights instead)...
Solution would be allow reflective warning signs to be used instead (if drivers in an austrian ski resort (so tourist central) can cope with stopping for a zebra that I only realised existed on day 4 when the snow melted enough to see the on road markings then british drivers really shouldn't have a problem in UK weather)
Because this would make it a LOT cheaper to install them (and harder to argue for traffic lights instead)...
Tycho said:
If you thought that Zebra crossings were too easy to use, how about leaf crossings?
Sorry for the Mail link
Facebook is full of idiots trying to justify the fact that it is so confusing to drivers making them slow down as a good thing. When it was first opened a child ran out into road to see the leaf markings!
It is a roundabout? Should the van at the bottom of the photo go around the island if he wants to turn right or just cut across the rainbow bit? Are the white leaves a pedestrian crossing or not? I can't tell from the Highway Code.
Good luck resolving the insurance claim in an accident on that.Sorry for the Mail link
Facebook is full of idiots trying to justify the fact that it is so confusing to drivers making them slow down as a good thing. When it was first opened a child ran out into road to see the leaf markings!
It is a roundabout? Should the van at the bottom of the photo go around the island if he wants to turn right or just cut across the rainbow bit? Are the white leaves a pedestrian crossing or not? I can't tell from the Highway Code.
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BoRED S2upid said:
Rough101 said:
There is a whole section of society that ignore them.
You mean cyclists in London? Here they are very well observed.
There's one in particular, in a 20mph zone, where you really do need to wait to check cars are stopping before stepping out even if they're far away. I'm the very antithesis of stealth, but even I have had to stop halfway or jump out of the way as someone ignores the big flashing lamps and large brightly-dressed man on a big stripey area. As it's a crossing I've used a lot over the years I've gained a pretty good knowledge of the offenders and I can say that the only groups who stood out were old people (regardless of ethnicity or sex) and minicabbers.
In the case of the old farts, I suspect it's that perennial problem of them driving on autopilot and ignoring/getting confused by any road or law changes implemented after their 60th birthday. In the case of minicabbers it's because they're utter a
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