Ex-wife attempting to sell my business
Discussion
My ex-wife and I have been separated since March 2020. It's been a particularly unpleasant process thus far, we have sorted out the house and mortgage, but still need to negotiate the assets and liabilities.
Part of the divorce negotiations are a small business I have registered in my name as a sole trader. Covid and lockdowns effectively killed off the business as it was a public facing service operation. However, even prior to that it was barely ticking over, only enough income to cover costs, to the point where HMRC said - "your profit is too small for us to care about, stop doing tax returns". I keep the domain name active & registered, just in case I should ever want to go back to it - was only ever a sideline hobby thing, not a serious enterprise.
Anyway, out of the blue ex-wife messages saying she wants to sell the business (not hers to sell). I'm not interested in selling. Then messages start appearing in various social media chat groups catering to the particular niche interest, offering my business for sale. I contact the admins of these groups stating it's not her business, and if anyone enters negotiations with her they purchase the proverbial eBay wheelnut. Then this evening, lo and behold, a post appears on my long-redundant business social media account, offering it for sale to the highest bidder - I forgot she has a login via her social media account.
Where do I stand legally with this? I am the registered sole trader, I ran and operated the business, handled all the bookings and finances, fulfilled all the engagements, filed all the tax returns under my personal tax number. It's my business. She has no grounds to offer anything for sale. I'm not presently engaged with a solicitor, but I have a feeling I'm going to have to be in the near future.
My head's a bit of a mess. She's on the NPD/BPD spectrum, so is an impossible person to negotiate with. What should be my next steps?
Part of the divorce negotiations are a small business I have registered in my name as a sole trader. Covid and lockdowns effectively killed off the business as it was a public facing service operation. However, even prior to that it was barely ticking over, only enough income to cover costs, to the point where HMRC said - "your profit is too small for us to care about, stop doing tax returns". I keep the domain name active & registered, just in case I should ever want to go back to it - was only ever a sideline hobby thing, not a serious enterprise.
Anyway, out of the blue ex-wife messages saying she wants to sell the business (not hers to sell). I'm not interested in selling. Then messages start appearing in various social media chat groups catering to the particular niche interest, offering my business for sale. I contact the admins of these groups stating it's not her business, and if anyone enters negotiations with her they purchase the proverbial eBay wheelnut. Then this evening, lo and behold, a post appears on my long-redundant business social media account, offering it for sale to the highest bidder - I forgot she has a login via her social media account.
Where do I stand legally with this? I am the registered sole trader, I ran and operated the business, handled all the bookings and finances, fulfilled all the engagements, filed all the tax returns under my personal tax number. It's my business. She has no grounds to offer anything for sale. I'm not presently engaged with a solicitor, but I have a feeling I'm going to have to be in the near future.
My head's a bit of a mess. She's on the NPD/BPD spectrum, so is an impossible person to negotiate with. What should be my next steps?
richhead said:
if it has no turnover then surly it has no value, if the name isnt important to you let her crack on, or does it have assets?
It has no assets, turnover or pipeline of custom. It's literally a social media holding page and a domain name. It has no tangible monetary value to my mind.However.
My ex-wife thinks it's worth proper money, and is trying to hawk it's carcass to the highest bidder. Given she thinks it's worth money, then she's chasing me for half that value as part of the divorce settlement.
Whilst the easy option would be to say - go for your life, take it - I'd quite like to retain it as I put a lot of blood, sweat and hours into creating it. Even if it's now worthless.
Roderick Spode said:
Then this evening, lo and behold, a post appears on my long-redundant business social media account, offering it for sale to the highest bidder - I forgot she has a login via her social media account.
Can you close the account or has she changed the password?Anyway as said, it has no value, so rather than wrestle over ownership etc, why not let her 'sell' it and then she can give you half the proceeds. Of course you will get nothing, but that's no worse off than you are now. Basically she has nothing and can't sell it so will get no money. Or you could appear generous and say 'Yes dear, you can sell it and keep the proceeds'...
When she wants the domain name you can charge her for it
You can't sell what you don't own - it's as simple as that - so she's wasting her time. You don't need to do anything. It's a daft as if I was to start advertising your car for sale.
Leaving that aside, it's far from obvious how a business that isn't a business can have any material value.
Leaving that aside, it's far from obvious how a business that isn't a business can have any material value.
You claim it has no value. However if a buyer comes along offering money it then does have a value.
As such she's entitled to half that value. It's in her intrest to get the most amount of money for any assets.
However if you wish to retain full ownership you are obliged to pay her for her half now determined by what others have offered for it.
You seem overly protective of an asset you claim has no value.
Look at it from her perspective it looks like your trying to retain something you will realise a greater value for after you seperate assets.
As such she's entitled to half that value. It's in her intrest to get the most amount of money for any assets.
However if you wish to retain full ownership you are obliged to pay her for her half now determined by what others have offered for it.
You seem overly protective of an asset you claim has no value.
Look at it from her perspective it looks like your trying to retain something you will realise a greater value for after you seperate assets.
Roderick Spode said:
Thank you guys and girls. The last years of incredibly stressful negotiations have given me something of a Pavlovian response to her constant bell ringing.
I cannot wait to be free of her incessant mental anguish.
You're like me - too nice.I cannot wait to be free of her incessant mental anguish.
Look at your possible vulnerable areas and act first. Or in this case accept the loss.
mikebradford said:
You claim it has no value. However if a buyer comes along offering money it then does have a value.
As such she's entitled to half that value. It's in her intrest to get the most amount of money for any assets.
However if you wish to retain full ownership you are obliged to pay her for her half now determined by what others have offered for it.
You seem overly protective of an asset you claim has no value.
Look at it from her perspective it looks like your trying to retain something you will realise a greater value for after you seperate assets.
It has no customers. No business. Zero social media presence. A website that points to a holding page. An incredibly niche market that even when running at it's very best only just crossed the HMRC threshold for self-returns. I fail to see where the monetary value is in that business model.As such she's entitled to half that value. It's in her intrest to get the most amount of money for any assets.
However if you wish to retain full ownership you are obliged to pay her for her half now determined by what others have offered for it.
You seem overly protective of an asset you claim has no value.
Look at it from her perspective it looks like your trying to retain something you will realise a greater value for after you seperate assets.
What I'm protective of is the zealous over-reach of someone who has no right to attempt sale of the remnants of that business, whether it has value or not.
Roderick Spode said:
mikebradford said:
You claim it has no value. However if a buyer comes along offering money it then does have a value.
As such she's entitled to half that value. It's in her intrest to get the most amount of money for any assets.
However if you wish to retain full ownership you are obliged to pay her for her half now determined by what others have offered for it.
You seem overly protective of an asset you claim has no value.
Look at it from her perspective it looks like your trying to retain something you will realise a greater value for after you seperate assets.
It has no customers. No business. Zero social media presence. A website that points to a holding page. An incredibly niche market that even when running at it's very best only just crossed the HMRC threshold for self-returns. I fail to see where the monetary value is in that business model.As such she's entitled to half that value. It's in her intrest to get the most amount of money for any assets.
However if you wish to retain full ownership you are obliged to pay her for her half now determined by what others have offered for it.
You seem overly protective of an asset you claim has no value.
Look at it from her perspective it looks like your trying to retain something you will realise a greater value for after you seperate assets.
What I'm protective of is the zealous over-reach of someone who has no right to attempt sale of the remnants of that business, whether it has value or not.
You may have created it, but as your married it's owned equally by her.
If you value it so much, pay her what she says it's worth.
Otherwise put it in the open market and you both walk away with money from an asset you state is worth zero.
If I was on her side I'd be taking a dim view of your point on this matter regardless of how you state her behaviour is. And if I was her lawyer I'd be taking greater intrest in your assets as I'd believe if you under value one item your likely to do similar to others.
Panamax said:
You can't sell what you don't own - it's as simple as that - so she's wasting her time. You don't need to do anything. It's a daft as if I was to start advertising your car for sale.
Leaving that aside, it's far from obvious how a business that isn't a business can have any material value.
This - from what you've said there is no "business". Leaving that aside, it's far from obvious how a business that isn't a business can have any material value.
Just remove whatever presence is online and change the passwords.
Good luck
mikebradford said:
The point your missing is it's a joint asset.
You may have created it, but as your married it's owned equally by her.
If you value it so much, pay her what she says it's worth.
Otherwise put it in the open market and you both walk away with money from an asset you state is worth zero.
If I was on her side I'd be taking a dim view of your point on this matter regardless of how you state her behaviour is. And if I was her lawyer I'd be taking greater intrest in your assets as I'd believe if you under value one item your likely to do similar to others.
I'm not missing that point at all. It's a joint asset. I'm not valuing anything. The whole purpose of this post is to understand my position against someone who is actively trying to sell an asset they have no sole ownership over. The point is precisely that it should go into the 'joint asset' pot, be valued appropriately, and that value distributed properly. I'm neither undervaluing or overvaluing anything. You may have created it, but as your married it's owned equally by her.
If you value it so much, pay her what she says it's worth.
Otherwise put it in the open market and you both walk away with money from an asset you state is worth zero.
If I was on her side I'd be taking a dim view of your point on this matter regardless of how you state her behaviour is. And if I was her lawyer I'd be taking greater intrest in your assets as I'd believe if you under value one item your likely to do similar to others.
For everything else the assets will be valued at the market rate & supported by auction valuations, but thank you for your concern & disparagement of my honesty.
MBVitoria said:
Panamax said:
You can't sell what you don't own - it's as simple as that - so she's wasting her time. You don't need to do anything. It's a daft as if I was to start advertising your car for sale.
Leaving that aside, it's far from obvious how a business that isn't a business can have any material value.
This - from what you've said there is no "business". Leaving that aside, it's far from obvious how a business that isn't a business can have any material value.
Just remove whatever presence is online and change the passwords.
Good luck
number2 said:
Surely it gets valued, then put in the marital assets bucket before the assets are cut and diced and apportionment agreed? Not unilaterally put on the market, notwithstanding its value.
Anything else you think she's trying to sell that you don't know about?!
Indeed, everything should be valued and form part of a final overall settlement. This is what I'm working towards, and have auction valuations to support the market value of vehicles, etc. The value of the business, whatever it might reasonably be, should be part of that.Anything else you think she's trying to sell that you don't know about?!
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