200 DNA matches - what source?

[AndyAudi]

I’ve always been under the impression Police could search their data bases for DNA / Fingerprints etc (& these were from people who had committed crimes previously)

Occasionally over the years we’ve seen appeals for folk in localities to come forward & rule themselves out by giving samples.

Now the police are wanting to speak to 200folk with DNA links to evidence found at crime scene

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cew1g99p9l7o

Is this because, potentially there’s one or two great nieces/nephews of the DNA match a wrongun’ & police have rebuilt their family tree, or have they accessed something like ancestory.com to find matches?
(I’d never realised the potential of those sites until watching the TV program about folk tracing their anonymous donor parents through DNA matches of the donors real family that had been processed)



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cew1g99p9l7o

[Decky_Q]

Given it was over 40 years ago and assassins tend to live risque lives, the chances of the killer still being alive and in the area are pretty low no?

[Southerner]

I appreciate that there will be a family who very possibly still feel aggrieved at the appalling loss of a loved one. But… it was 40 years ago, and now plod wants to start doing 200 family trees?!

Is Scotland wildly different to England in that police officers are plentiful, crime is low, if your bike gets nicked a constable will be along shortly to take your particulars etc? Cos if it’s anything like the desperately overstretched, creaking and ineffective forces south of the border such a use of resources would be a difficult one to argue. Unless it’s one bloke and he’s aiming to have it solved in another 40 years. Or is there more to this?!

I mean no disrespect to the chap’s family, in particular his nephew who was 26 at the time and features in the report, but presumably the new tool of “familial DNA” could be applied in hundreds or thousands of cases going back generations. Does there need to be some sort of ‘realistic prospects’ test before committing to the enormous level of resources potentially required?

Edited by Southerner on Monday 30th September 10:56

[reddiesel]

Southerner said:

I appreciate that there will be a family who very possibly still feel aggrieved at the appalling loss of a loved one. But… it was 40 years ago, and now plod wants to start doing 200 family trees?!

Is Scotland wildly different to England in that police officers are plentiful, crime is low, if your bike gets nicked a constable will be along shortly to take your particulars etc? Cos if it’s anything like the desperately overstretched, creaking and ineffective forces south of the border such a use of resources would be a difficult one to argue. Unless it’s one bloke and he’s aiming to have it solved in another 40 years. Or is there more to this?!

I mean no disrespect to the chap’s family, in particular his nephew who was 26 at the time and features in the report, but presumably the new tool of “familial DNA” could be applied in hundreds or thousands of cases going back generations. Does there need to be some sort of ‘realistic prospects’ test before committing to the enormous level of resources potentially required?

Edited by Southerner on Monday 30th September 10:56

" Possibly still feel aggrieved " I am absolutely stunned by your ignorance chap . What difference does 40 years make when we are talking about Murder and wouldn't you still feel aggrieved if it was your father ?
You then go on to talk some rubbish about Bikes getting nicked and overstretched Forces . I suggest we might as well give up and go home if ANY Police Force becomes unprepared to investigate a Murder of a fellow Human no matter what the elapsed time frame .

[Sebring440]

Decky_Q said:

Given it was over 40 years ago and assassins tend to live risque lives, the chances of the killer still being alive and in the area are pretty low no?

Risque lives? If the assassin has a sideline of being a male stripper, is that particularly risky, do you think?

[thisnameistaken]

reddiesel said:

Southerner said:

I appreciate that there will be a family who very possibly still feel aggrieved at the appalling loss of a loved one. But… it was 40 years ago, and now plod wants to start doing 200 family trees?!

Is Scotland wildly different to England in that police officers are plentiful, crime is low, if your bike gets nicked a constable will be along shortly to take your particulars etc? Cos if it’s anything like the desperately overstretched, creaking and ineffective forces south of the border such a use of resources would be a difficult one to argue. Unless it’s one bloke and he’s aiming to have it solved in another 40 years. Or is there more to this?!

I mean no disrespect to the chap’s family, in particular his nephew who was 26 at the time and features in the report, but presumably the new tool of “familial DNA” could be applied in hundreds or thousands of cases going back generations. Does there need to be some sort of ‘realistic prospects’ test before committing to the enormous level of resources potentially required?

Edited by Southerner on Monday 30th September 10:56

" Possibly still feel aggrieved " I am absolutely stunned by your ignorance chap . What difference does 40 years make when we are talking about Murder and wouldn't you still feel aggrieved if it was your father ?
You then go on to talk some rubbish about Bikes getting nicked and overstretched Forces . I suggest we might as well give up and go home if ANY Police Force becomes unprepared to investigate a Murder of a fellow Human no matter what the elapsed time frame .

Bloody cops investigating murders, why aren't they investigating real crime?

[williamp]

Sebring440 said:

Decky_Q said:

Given it was over 40 years ago and assassins tend to live risque lives, the chances of the killer still being alive and in the area are pretty low no?

Risque lives? If the assassin has a sideline of being a male stripper, is that particularly risky, do you think?

Stockings over their heads. They could steal one of Matrons...

The real reason is obvious. Get some fresh dna, publicise some "finally solve a high profile case" whilst working to solve all manner of older stuff. Finally we know who nicked your car sterel in 1987.

Crime results up, labour look gooc

[ralphrj]

AndyAudi said:

Is this because, potentially there’s one or two great nieces/nephews of the DNA match a wrongun’ & police have rebuilt their family tree, or have they accessed something like ancestory.com to find matches?

Based on the article it sounds like the former rather than the latter. I suspect they have a partial match with someone arrested in recent years and therefore think there is a high chance that they are related to the killer.

[Southerner]

reddiesel said:

Southerner said:

I appreciate that there will be a family who very possibly still feel aggrieved at the appalling loss of a loved one. But… it was 40 years ago, and now plod wants to start doing 200 family trees?!

Is Scotland wildly different to England in that police officers are plentiful, crime is low, if your bike gets nicked a constable will be along shortly to take your particulars etc? Cos if it’s anything like the desperately overstretched, creaking and ineffective forces south of the border such a use of resources would be a difficult one to argue. Unless it’s one bloke and he’s aiming to have it solved in another 40 years. Or is there more to this?!

I mean no disrespect to the chap’s family, in particular his nephew who was 26 at the time and features in the report, but presumably the new tool of “familial DNA” could be applied in hundreds or thousands of cases going back generations. Does there need to be some sort of ‘realistic prospects’ test before committing to the enormous level of resources potentially required?

Edited by Southerner on Monday 30th September 10:56

" Possibly still feel aggrieved " I am absolutely stunned by your ignorance chap . What difference does 40 years make when we are talking about Murder and wouldn't you still feel aggrieved if it was your father ?
You then go on to talk some rubbish about Bikes getting nicked and overstretched Forces . I suggest we might as well give up and go home if ANY Police Force becomes unprepared to investigate a Murder of a fellow Human no matter what the elapsed time frame .

My apologies, that came across poorly; I was pondering the thought that many murder victims from four decades ago will likely have few if any remaining family members who recall the event - presumably the police won’t factor that in when deciding which cases to apply their resources to.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to question the viability of this type of police work in general against a backdrop of a desperately underfunded and overstretched service. It isn’t a case of being “unprepared”, is it? It’s a case of having this stack of crime vs this stack of officers who need to try and solve it. Any unsolved murder is of course ‘worth’ solving, but the general impression these days tends to suggest that police resources are precious and really rather scarce. Perhaps there is a different pool of resources for this type of work?

Edited by Southerner on Monday 30th September 21:11

Edited by Southerner on Tuesday 1st October 09:16

[AndyAudi]

Southerner said:

My apologies, that came across poorly…... Perhaps there is a different pool of resources for this type of work?

It’s alright, it’s ok…

[The_Nugget]

Decky_Q said:

Given it was over 40 years ago and assassins tend to live risque lives, the chances of the killer still being alive and in the area are pretty low no?

Could be in their 60s having got away with it for 40years.
Chances of them committing a murder and then going on to live a crime free life after that are slim.
Who knows what will come of it in terms of solving other cases.
The murderer doesn’t have to live in the area, they are seeking to narrow the net through DNA and find who’s Uncle, brother, cousin etc it is and if they are alive and where they might be.

[The_Nugget]

Southerner said:

My apologies, that came across poorly; I was pondering the thought that many murder victims from four decades ago will likely have few if any remaining family members who recall the event - presumably the police won’t factor that in when deciding which cases to apply their resources to.

I don’t think it’s reasonable to question the viability of this type of police work in general against a backdrop of a desperately underfunded and overstretched service. It isn’t a case of being “unprepared”, is it? It’s a case of having this stack of crime vs this stack of officers who need to try and solve it. Any unsolved murder is of course ‘worth’ solving, but the general impression these days tends to suggest that police resources are precious and really rather scarce. Perhaps there is a different pool of resources for this type of work?

Edited by Southerner on Monday 30th September 21:11

Generally there is, and there are ‘cold case’ units that pick these cases up.
They won’t be bobbies off the beat and there won’t be dozens of detectives, just a handful with a number of these cases, reviewing the old work and seeking new ideas or lines of enquiry.
New DNA advances often come up that allow even micro traces and partial matches to yield leads that weren’t possible even in the recent past.

[Southerner]

AndyAudi said:

Southerner said:

My apologies, that came across poorly…... Perhaps there is a different pool of resources for this type of work?

It’s alright, it’s ok…

[jdw100]

Southerner said:

My apologies, that came across poorly; I was pondering the thought that many murder victims from four decades ago will likely have few if any remaining family members who recall the event - presumably the police won’t factor that in when deciding which cases to apply their resources to.

I don’t think it’s reasonable to question the viability of this type of police work in general against a backdrop of a desperately underfunded and overstretched service. It isn’t a case of being “unprepared”, is it? It’s a case of having this stack of crime vs this stack of officers who need to try and solve it. Any unsolved murder is of course ‘worth’ solving, but the general impression these days tends to suggest that police resources are precious and really rather scarce. Perhaps there is a different pool of resources for this type of work?

Edited by Southerner on Monday 30th September 21:11

I understand where you are coming from on this topic.

Murder happens many decades ago, murderer would be dead or way into their 80s.

Best use of resources?

If someone had murdered my grandad back in, say the 1970s, the effect on me would now be minimal, murderer probably long dead. Even if there was a new lead through forensics….what would be the point?

[AndyAudi]

Unrelated to DNA Q, but this was another Scottish Murder from 1976 recently solved…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Renee_an...

Reading it though I suppose it does highlight differences to today. Back then they matched the blood type as being the same as hers, where’s now I guess they’d be able to say if it was actually her blood or not.

[OutInTheShed]

Can anyone really prove guilt or innocence after all these years?

It seems to me that it's a gross waste of resources, unlikely to result in a safe conviction.

[Hol]

OutInTheShed said:

Can anyone really prove guilt or innocence after all these years?

It seems to me that it's a gross waste of resources, unlikely to result in a safe conviction.

Yes and DNA has been cited as the means used for closing many a cold case on the numerous documentary programmes that are on daily,

But… unless you have Lord Lucan and Shergar buried under your shed, you have nothing to fear.

[CoolHands]

When, as some of you want, they start not bothering with old murders, how recent do you want to make the cutoff?