Received fine for sold car being sorned parked on the road?

Received fine for sold car being sorned parked on the road?

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hussnainh8

Original Poster:

31 posts

104 months

Friday 27th September
quotequote all
Hello

So I just received a fine for parking a car on the road which was declared sorned. I understand it's an offence to park on public roads with the car being sorned but in my defence the car was sold 2 days before the offence and the guys who bought the car from me are traders and said they would change the logbook over into their business address (which I let them as I have no clue how to do it myself). They left it on the road to get it towed back to their garage. They have since taken the car but I have been left with a steep £307 fine to pay. Is there any way to dispute this and would dvla acknowledge it? I'm only asking on here as by the time I dispute it and get a reply back from dvla themselves I may even run out of time and the fine may get higher etc so I want to avoid being fined larger amounts. I can get a receipt from the garage to show I sold the car to them if that helps? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Rough101

2,283 posts

82 months

Friday 27th September
quotequote all
Tell them it was traded on whatever date with a copy of the receipt and that the paperwork must be lost in the post.

Next time read the V5 and send off yourself in such circumstances.

E-bmw

9,964 posts

159 months

Saturday 28th September
quotequote all
Two questions.

Why did you park it on the road knowing it was on a SORN?

Surely, you should have just left it off the road until THEY came to pick it up?

Point of note (your V5 and DVLA online both tell you this) as the registered keeper, you are the person who HAS to notify DVLA of any change of ownership etc.

2 GKC

2,059 posts

112 months

Saturday 28th September
quotequote all
E-bmw said:
Two questions.

Why did you park it on the road knowing it was on a SORN?

Surely, you should have just left it off the road until THEY came to pick it up?

Point of note (your V5 and DVLA online both tell you this) as the registered keeper, you are the person who HAS to notify DVLA of any change of ownership etc.
Only one question there , which is irrelevant to OPs question and answered in his post.

GasEngineer

1,165 posts

69 months

Saturday 28th September
quotequote all
hussnainh8 said:
Hello

So I just received a fine for parking a car on the road which was declared sorned. I understand it's an offence to park on public roads with the car being sorned but in my defence the car was sold 2 days before the offence and the guys who bought the car from me are traders and said they would change the logbook over into their business address (which I let them as I have no clue how to do it myself). They left it on the road to get it towed back to their garage. They have since taken the car but I have been left with a steep £307 fine to pay. Is there any way to dispute this and would dvla acknowledge it? I'm only asking on here as by the time I dispute it and get a reply back from dvla themselves I may even run out of time and the fine may get higher etc so I want to avoid being fined larger amounts. I can get a receipt from the garage to show I sold the car to them if that helps? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
Have you confirmed with the dealer that they have now transferred the V5 to themselves as trade?

Countdown

41,978 posts

203 months

Saturday 28th September
quotequote all
hussnainh8 said:
Hello

So I just received a fine for parking a car on the road which was declared sorned. I understand it's an offence to park on public roads with the car being sorned but in my defence the car was sold 2 days before the offence and the guys who bought the car from me are traders and said they would change the logbook over into their business address (which I let them as I have no clue how to do it myself). They left it on the road to get it towed back to their garage. They have since taken the car but I have been left with a steep £307 fine to pay. Is there any way to dispute this and would dvla acknowledge it? I'm only asking on here as by the time I dispute it and get a reply back from dvla themselves I may even run out of time and the fine may get higher etc so I want to avoid being fined larger amounts. I can get a receipt from the garage to show I sold the car to them if that helps? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
Apologies if I'm missing something but it seems like

1. You SORN'd the car but left it parked on the road.
2. You sold the car and the buyers haven't collected yet.
3. The V5 hasn't been swapped over so you've got the fine

I'm not sure the garage wil give you a receipt if it means THEY'RE the ones who are going to end up liable for the fine but good luck.

jondude

2,388 posts

224 months

Saturday 28th September
quotequote all
Just one other issue - this fine is legitimate. right? Not a scam? I ask as I thought the DVLA clamped cars parked on roads before issuing fines?

nute

756 posts

114 months

Saturday 28th September
quotequote all
Am I missing something here? If they were the owner at the time of the offence it should be their problem?

If you get a receipt from the buyer with a date on it surely that would be sufficient to show it wasn’t yours at the time? Road tax is due the moment it becomes yours if you buy a car.

You can do the ownership transfer electronically on the DVLA web site. If you flog the car at 10:30am and it goes through a speed camera at 10:45am shouldn’t be your problem.

OutInTheShed

9,302 posts

33 months

Saturday 28th September
quotequote all
nute said:
Am I missing something here? If they were the owner at the time of the offence it should be their problem?

If you get a receipt from the buyer with a date on it surely that would be sufficient to show it wasn’t yours at the time? Road tax is due the moment it becomes yours if you buy a car.

You can do the ownership transfer electronically on the DVLA web site. If you flog the car at 10:30am and it goes through a speed camera at 10:45am shouldn’t be your problem.
It's not the owner who gets fined, it's the keeper.
The OP failed to notify change of keeper, so he was still keeper as far as DVLC are concerned.
He kept it on the road when it was SORNed.

Bang to rights really.

The date you pay for something and get a receipt for your cash is not necessarily the date you become keeper or owner.

Did the OP tell the trader he was parking the car on the road? The trader might reasonably have expected him to leave it off the road until collected, as it would only be covered by the trader's insurance etc when on trade plates.
Anyone buying a car and picking it up later should be careful about this sort of thing, make sure the seller is going to leave it off the road until you tax and insure it. If you do the change of keeper online, you should really tax or SORN it same day.

Placing a vehicle o nthe highway is a serious business.
Was it insured while parked on the highway?

Cold

15,558 posts

97 months

Saturday 28th September
quotequote all
SORN becomes void and needs to be renewed by the new owner when changing owner/keeper however you, the seller, do need to inform the DVLA immediately.

If the car was sold two days before the ticket was issued and you notified the DVLA then it wasn't SORNed, just untaxed. The trade has no requirement to SORN a vehicle if it's not going to be a permanent acquisition.

E-bmw

9,964 posts

159 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
Cold said:
SORN becomes void and needs to be renewed by the new owner when changing owner/keeper however you, the seller, do need to inform the DVLA immediately.

If the car was sold two days before the ticket was issued and you notified the DVLA then it wasn't SORNed, just untaxed. The trade has no requirement to SORN a vehicle if it's not going to be a permanent acquisition.
AFAIK you are correct, but at that point it either needed to be off the road or have trade plates on it.

Cold

15,558 posts

97 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
E-bmw said:
Cold said:
SORN becomes void and needs to be renewed by the new owner when changing owner/keeper however you, the seller, do need to inform the DVLA immediately.

If the car was sold two days before the ticket was issued and you notified the DVLA then it wasn't SORNed, just untaxed. The trade has no requirement to SORN a vehicle if it's not going to be a permanent acquisition.
AFAIK you are correct, but at that point it either needed to be off the road or have trade plates on it.
Indeed, yes. However, that would be a separate problem from the one faced by the OP and would rely on another ticket being issued.

The defence/mitigation the OP can offer for being fined for a SORN offence is firstly it's not his/her car and secondly SORN was not in place when the ticket was written.

Then wait by the letterbox for any further potentially expensive letters from the DVLA.

OutInTheShed

9,302 posts

33 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
Given that the penalty for failing to notify a change of ownership can be £1k, and it seems the OP also drove this untaxed car onto the public road, for which the fine can also be a grand, I suspect he should probably pay the £270 ASAP.

Countdown

41,978 posts

203 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
OutoftheShed said:
Did the OP tell the trader he was parking the car on the road? The trader might reasonably have expected him to leave it off the road until collected, as it would only be covered by the trader's insurance etc when on trade plates.
Anyone buying a car and picking it up later should be careful about this sort of thing, make sure the seller is going to leave it off the road until you tax and insure it. If you do the change of keeper online, you should really tax or SORN it same day.

Placing a vehicle o nthe highway is a serious business.
Was it insured while parked on the highway?
That suggests that the car was off the road whilst it was SORN’D. It might have been kept ON the road before the OP sold it, but only caught by DVLA after the sale.

OutInTheShed

9,302 posts

33 months

Monday 30th September
quotequote all
Countdown said:
That suggests that the car was off the road whilst it was SORN’D. It might have been kept ON the road before the OP sold it, but only caught by DVLA after the sale.
It was SORNed until DVLA were notfied of the keeper change.


The seller failed to notify the keeper change, that's an offence.
The fact that money changed hands does not change the keeper.
The Seller appears to have had the keys in order to move the car onto the street?
Or did the buyer actually do that?

People need to take their responsibility as 'keeper' seriously. Maybe read the bit of paper called a V5c and follow the simple instructions?

If the seller had filled out the required section of the V5 and put it in the post, he should have been in the clear, although the DVLA wouldn't have received it for a couple of days.

As a buyer, it's not unreasonable to view a car on private land and expect the seller to keep it on private land until you pick it up a couple of days later, but it's best to be proeprly clear about these things.

MustangGT

12,268 posts

287 months

Monday 30th September
quotequote all
OutInTheShed said:
It was SORNed until DVLA were notfied of the keeper change.


The seller failed to notify the keeper change, that's an offence.
The fact that money changed hands does not change the keeper.
The Seller appears to have had the keys in order to move the car onto the street?
Or did the buyer actually do that?

People need to take their responsibility as 'keeper' seriously. Maybe read the bit of paper called a V5c and follow the simple instructions?

If the seller had filled out the required section of the V5 and put it in the post, he should have been in the clear, although the DVLA wouldn't have received it for a couple of days.

As a buyer, it's not unreasonable to view a car on private land and expect the seller to keep it on private land until you pick it up a couple of days later, but it's best to be proeprly clear about these things.
This. Do the V5C online and never a problem after that

OutInTheShed

9,302 posts

33 months

Monday 30th September
quotequote all
I would say though, that as the buyers were 'traders', they should have some responsibility for ensuring the seller, as an ordinary member of the public, is informed of the process and not given duff advice.

The phrase 'professional duty of care' maybe doesn't sit well with 'small time car trader' in many people's minds, but there are limits!