Parking charge appeal rejected but paid in full twice?
Discussion
The wife went to an Ice Skating place with the kids for the first time and had to pay for parking.
There are only x2 parking machines (from Premier Park Ltd) by the entrance and one is contactless and the other takes coins.
She used the non coin machine first and paid by Apple pay but nothing happened after making payment and got no confirmation if it was successful or not as nothing appeared on the screen.
As she was unsure if the ticket/payment went through, she used the machine that took coins and got a paper ticket.
The first charge by Apple pay did show on the bank statement the next day so she actually purchased the ticket.
We then got a letter from (Premier Park Ltd) and a fine for £100 saying 'Whole period of parking not paid for' yet both tickets where for 3 hours and our stay was only 1hr, 54mins.
I appealed this (and showed them the bank statement from Apple pay and the paper ticket) stating I thought one of the machines was faulty despite purchasing the ticket so then bought another and we had not overstayed as it says on the letter the length of time we stayed for (under 2 hours). I cheekily also asked for a £2 refund as we double bought
Today, I heard back from them and they have declined my appeal now stating that the reg number is incomplete on the paper ticket.
All that shows on the printed ticket is the same letter twice from our reg 'KK' and our reg is K*** K**
Now, my wife isn't stupid and always puts a full reg in when using parking machines so part of me now thinks if that machine was faulty too as it only registered one letter (twice) from our reg?
Is it even possible to just add x2 letters on these machines as a reg number?
For the Apple pay ticket, we have nothing in the way of a ticket except the £2 transaction on the bank statement from Premier Park Ltd and it shows no details about the reg number.
Its also the fact they've changed there tune from 'Whole period of parking not paid for on the initial letter to now saying 'we've admitted making payment for vehicle 'KK' rather than 'K*** K**'.
I also note on the rejected appeal email, it only shows a £20 fee to pay. It was £100 which gets reduced to £60 if paying early so why is it now just £20?
I know the easiest thing is to pay the £20 and forget about it but after buying x2, 3 hour tickets, its the principal rather than the cost.
If i do appeal this appeal with the facts shown above, what are the chances of me winning as its just for £20 or me losing and having to paying more?
There are only x2 parking machines (from Premier Park Ltd) by the entrance and one is contactless and the other takes coins.
She used the non coin machine first and paid by Apple pay but nothing happened after making payment and got no confirmation if it was successful or not as nothing appeared on the screen.
As she was unsure if the ticket/payment went through, she used the machine that took coins and got a paper ticket.
The first charge by Apple pay did show on the bank statement the next day so she actually purchased the ticket.
We then got a letter from (Premier Park Ltd) and a fine for £100 saying 'Whole period of parking not paid for' yet both tickets where for 3 hours and our stay was only 1hr, 54mins.
I appealed this (and showed them the bank statement from Apple pay and the paper ticket) stating I thought one of the machines was faulty despite purchasing the ticket so then bought another and we had not overstayed as it says on the letter the length of time we stayed for (under 2 hours). I cheekily also asked for a £2 refund as we double bought
Today, I heard back from them and they have declined my appeal now stating that the reg number is incomplete on the paper ticket.
All that shows on the printed ticket is the same letter twice from our reg 'KK' and our reg is K*** K**
Now, my wife isn't stupid and always puts a full reg in when using parking machines so part of me now thinks if that machine was faulty too as it only registered one letter (twice) from our reg?
Is it even possible to just add x2 letters on these machines as a reg number?
For the Apple pay ticket, we have nothing in the way of a ticket except the £2 transaction on the bank statement from Premier Park Ltd and it shows no details about the reg number.
Its also the fact they've changed there tune from 'Whole period of parking not paid for on the initial letter to now saying 'we've admitted making payment for vehicle 'KK' rather than 'K*** K**'.
I also note on the rejected appeal email, it only shows a £20 fee to pay. It was £100 which gets reduced to £60 if paying early so why is it now just £20?
I know the easiest thing is to pay the £20 and forget about it but after buying x2, 3 hour tickets, its the principal rather than the cost.
If i do appeal this appeal with the facts shown above, what are the chances of me winning as its just for £20 or me losing and having to paying more?
I'd tell them to go and f
k themselves and you'll see them in court.
If you're sure it was for 3 hours and can prove you only stopped less than two (google maps apple equivalent might help) then let it roll.
I'd file everything and see them in court.
But only you know how much stress you want to take.
I had exactly this with a machine, however I didn't then use the coin one, I simply emailed them and told them immediately. They too then sent me a fine and I replied saying I've already contacted you about this, I'll pay the £3 and nothing more.
When they ignored me, I contacted the venue, fortunately for me a shopping centre with CCTV, I asked for them to review all the CCTV from the time as they would show me trying to use the machine and it not taking payment, despite saying it had. I told them I obviously couldn't view the CCTV myself however wanted them to confirm they could see me using the machine.
Sure enough this proved to hard and they immediately cancelled the fine. The parking company requested the original £3 that I said I would be happy to pay when I first contacted them and duly paid.
It's your call, you've more than enough evidence, play hard ball if you want.
k themselves and you'll see them in court. If you're sure it was for 3 hours and can prove you only stopped less than two (google maps apple equivalent might help) then let it roll.
I'd file everything and see them in court.
But only you know how much stress you want to take.
I had exactly this with a machine, however I didn't then use the coin one, I simply emailed them and told them immediately. They too then sent me a fine and I replied saying I've already contacted you about this, I'll pay the £3 and nothing more.
When they ignored me, I contacted the venue, fortunately for me a shopping centre with CCTV, I asked for them to review all the CCTV from the time as they would show me trying to use the machine and it not taking payment, despite saying it had. I told them I obviously couldn't view the CCTV myself however wanted them to confirm they could see me using the machine.
Sure enough this proved to hard and they immediately cancelled the fine. The parking company requested the original £3 that I said I would be happy to pay when I first contacted them and duly paid.
It's your call, you've more than enough evidence, play hard ball if you want.
Cyberprog said:
They're on a hiding to nothing - they have no loss, indeed, they owe you a refund. I'd push back at them and invite them to take you to court when you can prove that you've bought not one, but two tickets!
The issue is on the paper ticket that the reg isn’t entered fully so they can’t match it up to ANPR and it’s this that they have the issue with.As for the first ticket done via Apple Pay, there is no paper ticket and I have no other details about it except payment confirmation on the bank statement.
They never mentioned this one on the email either.
21TonyK said:
Did you appeal through POPLA? I had a series of fines which I appealled and had rejected by the parking co. Took 5 minutes to appeal through POPLA and had them all cancelled withing a week.
Original appeal was with the actual ticket company but on there email, it does say either pay or appeal via POPLA and that’s what I’m wondering as to what to do next… for the sake of £20.The fact they’ve dropped it from £60 (if paid early from £100) to £20 gives me the impression that wouldn’t be confident if going to another appeal and are just after a small amount now that many would just pay.
stabilio said:
21TonyK said:
Did you appeal through POPLA? I had a series of fines which I appealled and had rejected by the parking co. Took 5 minutes to appeal through POPLA and had them all cancelled withing a week.
Original appeal was with the actual ticket company but on there email, it does say either pay or appeal via POPLA and that’s what I’m wondering as to what to do next… for the sake of £20.The fact they’ve dropped it from £60 (if paid early from £100) to £20 gives me the impression that wouldn’t be confident if going to another appeal and are just after a small amount now that many would just pay.
stabilio said:
Its also the fact they've changed there tune from 'Whole period of parking not paid for on the initial letter to now saying 'we've admitted making payment for vehicle 'KK' rather than 'K*** K**'.
I also note on the rejected appeal email, it only shows a £20 fee to pay. It was £100 which gets reduced to £60 if paying early so why is it now just £20?
I know the easiest thing is to pay the £20 and forget about it but after buying x2, 3 hour tickets, its the principal rather than the cost.
If i do appeal this appeal with the facts shown above, what are the chances of me winning as its just for £20 or me losing and having to paying more?
The reduced “fine” of £20 is because they’re claiming it’s a “keying error”.I also note on the rejected appeal email, it only shows a £20 fee to pay. It was £100 which gets reduced to £60 if paying early so why is it now just £20?
I know the easiest thing is to pay the £20 and forget about it but after buying x2, 3 hour tickets, its the principal rather than the cost.
If i do appeal this appeal with the facts shown above, what are the chances of me winning as its just for £20 or me losing and having to paying more?
See page 11 of the BPA’s code of practice regarding a keying error:
https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/A...
I had a run in with Premier Park last year over a similar situation where the driver had incorrectly entered their reg so Premier Park claimed the parking wasn’t paid for.
Seems they’ve changed their tactics as they refused the appeal but didn’t offer the reduced “fine” of £20 for a keying error. I did however appeal to POPLA on a number of grounds and the “fine” was cancelled.
You have 4 options:
1. Pay the £20 and it’ll go away.
2. Appeal via POPLA with a good defence and it’s cancelled.
3. Appeal via POPLA where you lose and have to pay the full amount which you either pay or ignore as a POPLA decision isn’t legally binding (If you ignore, see step 4).
4. Ignore and wait for the court papers where you’d likely win as PP have suffered no loss.
With a structured appeal to POPLA with lots of evidence and raising other points where they might not have followed the rules, you could easily have it cancelled. There will be a few grounds of appeal - the more you raise the better because you only need POPLA to find in your favour for one of them and the “fine” is cancelled.
Edited by XDA on Saturday 14th September 22:22
stabilio said:
For the Apple pay ticket, we have nothing in the way of a ticket except the £2 transaction on the bank statement from Premier Park Ltd and it shows no details about the reg number.
Can you do some kind of data request to see what reg they have against the Apple pay ticket?How is a keying error the fault of the parkee?
Why would you intentionally pay for parking without making sure your registration is correct?
Surely it is up to their machine / App to provide a confirmation page so you can confirm the registration that you are paying for?
I cannot see how it would benefit any form of "parking cheat" to enter "KK" in place of the full registration and then paying for parking.
As others have said, I'd be welcome to see them in court.
Why would you intentionally pay for parking without making sure your registration is correct?
Surely it is up to their machine / App to provide a confirmation page so you can confirm the registration that you are paying for?
I cannot see how it would benefit any form of "parking cheat" to enter "KK" in place of the full registration and then paying for parking.
As others have said, I'd be welcome to see them in court.
Sheepshanks said:
stabilio said:
For the Apple pay ticket, we have nothing in the way of a ticket except the £2 transaction on the bank statement from Premier Park Ltd and it shows no details about the reg number.
Can you do some kind of data request to see what reg they have against the Apple pay ticket?ridds said:
How is a keying error the fault of the parkee?
Why would you intentionally pay for parking without making sure your registration is correct?
Surely it is up to their machine / App to provide a confirmation page so you can confirm the registration that you are paying for?
I cannot see how it would benefit any form of "parking cheat" to enter "KK" in place of the full registration and then paying for parking.
As others have said, I'd be welcome to see them in court.
Welcome to the scam that is private parking companies.Why would you intentionally pay for parking without making sure your registration is correct?
Surely it is up to their machine / App to provide a confirmation page so you can confirm the registration that you are paying for?
I cannot see how it would benefit any form of "parking cheat" to enter "KK" in place of the full registration and then paying for parking.
As others have said, I'd be welcome to see them in court.
Regardless whether the reg is incorrectly entered, you’ve still paid for the duration of parking.
It wouldn’t stand up in court anyway because no loss has been suffered.
Always worth appealing to POPLA with several grounds of appeal because not only are you wasting the private parking companies time as they have to then submit an evidence pack refuting your claims but a POPLA appeal also costs them a small fee.
If you lose with POPLA, it’s not legally binding anyway so just wait for the court papers and see them in court where it’ll be thrown out and that will also cost them more money.
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