Issued PCN in error - Civil Enforcement Ltd.

[Clivey]

Hi all, I wonder if you can help me. - I've received a PCN Notice from "Civil Enforcement Ltd" in error and after some Googling, they seem like the absolute worst kind of organisation so before I respond and contact these chancers, I wanted to know where I stand, what to say etc.

The facts / order of events are as follows:

- I parked in a Burger King car park and sat inside having meal with a friend. We were in 2 seperate cars.
- I then drove to nearby Sainsbury's and did some shopping, which took about 30-45 minutes
- On my way home, I went through the drive through at the same Burger King as earlier to get drinks but did not park in the car park again

I have now received a PCN notice stating that I exceeded the notified maximum free parking period of 60 minutes. It's stating that I entered at 17:24 and left at 19:08, which is definitely incorrect. My friend hasn't received a PCN notice.

My bank statement shows 2 transactions at Burger King on the same day but doesn't show the time of each one. I'm wondering what other evidence I might be able to come-up with, or whether I'd be better off going back to the Burger King and asking the manager if they can resolve this for me.

What's the easiest way of dealing with this?

[RazerSauber]

show them your receipt from Sainsbury's showing you were there, as well as both Burger King transactions on your bank? Hopefully you kept the receipt for Sainsburys.

[Clivey]

RazerSauber said:

show them your receipt from Sainsbury's showing you were there, as well as both Burger King transactions on your bank? Hopefully you kept the receipt for Sainsburys.

All are on my bank statement but not in chronological order (the statement shows the date but not the times). I may still have the Sainsbury's receipt though, thanks!

[redrabbit29]

Clivey said:

All are on my bank statement but not in chronological order (the statement shows the date but not the times). I may still have the Sainsbury's receipt though, thanks!

The times are recorded but may not be visible to you. See if you can access more detailed statements via your bank. You may need to call them though

[Animal]

Clivey said:

All are on my bank statement but not in chronological order (the statement shows the date but not the times). I may still have the Sainsbury's receipt though, thanks!

Did you scan your Nectar card? Go in to customer services and ask if they can provide some kind of duplicate receipt?

[No ideas for a name]

Clivey said:

Hi all, I wonder if you can help me. - I've received a PCN Notice from "Civil Enforcement Ltd" in error and after some Googling, they seem like the absolute worst kind of organisation so before I respond and contact these chancers, I wanted to know where I stand, what to say etc.

The facts / order of events are as follows:

- I parked in a Burger King car park and sat inside having meal with a friend. We were in 2 seperate cars.
- I then drove to nearby Sainsbury's and did some shopping, which took about 30-45 minutes
- On my way home, I went through the drive through at the same Burger King as earlier to get drinks but did not park in the car park again

I have now received a PCN notice stating that I exceeded the notified maximum free parking period of 60 minutes. It's stating that I entered at 17:24 and left at 19:08, which is definitely incorrect. My friend hasn't received a PCN notice.

My bank statement shows 2 transactions at Burger King on the same day but doesn't show the time of each one. I'm wondering what other evidence I might be able to come-up with, or whether I'd be better off going back to the Burger King and asking the manager if they can resolve this for me.

What's the easiest way of dealing with this?

I assume the two times quoted are accurate for your first time of arrival, and your last time of departure.
If so, it is simply a case that they missed the first departure or second arrival with their ANPR cameras.

I had this with Wickes recently when I was in and out 3 or 4 times a day getting matterials (different parking company). Mine was 'dropped' when they realised they had messed up.

Write back - without confirming the driver - ie. 'the driver did blah'. This might become important if they get silly.
Ask them to check the entry and exit logs for the above annomaly.
Also inform them you will wish to see the entire video stream between those times if they take it further.

I think - but am not sure - they may well have sent the Notice to Keeper too early. I think they have to wait 14 days - but I guess they just hope they will get identification of the driver.

[vikingaero]

No ideas for a name said:

I think - but am not sure - they may well have sent the Notice to Keeper too early. I think they have to wait 14 days - but I guess they just hope they will get identification of the driver.

Definitely not. I will explain below later

The OP can play this several ways:

(1) Appeal as the driver. They should check their CCTV to confirm multiple entry/exit and their crap cameras double dipping.
(2) If they pursue the Registered Keeper, they MUST send the Notice to Keeper within 14 days (calendar days - weekends and BH count). If they fail to do so, they CANNOT pursue the RK under POFA 2012. What many of these scummy companies will do is claim they are not pursuing you under POFA to bamboozle you - in effect they are just sending a letter requesting free money from you, and many people for for it.
(3) Appeal as the RK - "I am the RK of vehicle AB12ABC, but I was not the driver" (You can add - "I am not required to name the driver and will not be doing so). "Please send a POPLA code if you disagree.

[Cats_pyjamas]

There are a couple good FB groups. These companies are low hanging fruit.

I think the general advice is to never admit who was driving. Refer to the driver as 'the driver'.

Make an appeal, I expect this will not be upheld and they will continue to pursue you. Ignore any threatening letters, but keep a small pack of evidence including bank statements and receipts. If you get a court summons do not ignore it. They have 6 years to pursue you.

[Clivey]

redrabbit29 said:

The times are recorded but may not be visible to you. See if you can access more detailed statements via your bank. You may need to call them though

Thanks for the advice.

Animal said:

Did you scan your Nectar card? Go in to customer services and ask if they can provide some kind of duplicate receipt?

Another helpful idea, thank-you.

[Clivey]

No ideas for a name said:

I assume the two times quoted are accurate for your first time of arrival, and your last time of departure.
If so, it is simply a case that they missed the first departure or second arrival with their ANPR cameras.

I had this with Wickes recently when I was in and out 3 or 4 times a day getting matterials (different parking company). Mine was 'dropped' when they realised they had messed up.

Write back - without confirming the driver - ie. 'the driver did blah'. This might become important if they get silly.
Ask them to check the entry and exit logs for the above annomaly.
Also inform them you will wish to see the entire video stream between those times if they take it further.

I think - but am not sure - they may well have sent the Notice to Keeper too early. I think they have to wait 14 days - but I guess they just hope they will get identification of the driver.

Yes, it appears that they've simply used the first time of arrival and the last time of exit, as you have to drive through their car park to access the drive-thru.

Thanks for the advice re. not naming the driver. Do I have any kind of legal right to see the entire video stream?

The alleged date of the "incident" is the 31st of August, the "Issue Date" was the 5th of September and we came home after a weekend away to find the letter on the 10th of September.

[Clivey]

vikingaero said:

Definitely not. I will explain below later

The OP can play this several ways:

(1) Appeal as the driver. They should check their CCTV to confirm multiple entry/exit and their crap cameras double dipping.
(2) If they pursue the Registered Keeper, they MUST send the Notice to Keeper within 14 days (calendar days - weekends and BH count). If they fail to do so, they CANNOT pursue the RK under POFA 2012. What many of these scummy companies will do is claim they are not pursuing you under POFA to bamboozle you - in effect they are just sending a letter requesting free money from you, and many people for for it.
(3) Appeal as the RK - "I am the RK of vehicle AB12ABC, but I was not the driver" (You can add - "I am not required to name the driver and will not be doing so). "Please send a POPLA code if you disagree.

The PCN letter states "This notice is issued under Shedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012".

I've been driving for 18 years and have never had any kind of fine or PCN before so this is the first time I've heard of POPLA, the BPA etc. - It seems as if I'd have to appeal to these "Civil Enforcement" clowns first and then use POPLA if they won't see sense?

To be honest, the biggest irritation is the effort it's going to take to deal with this. It's a shame you can't charge these outfits for wasting your time!