Carpark Overstay due to Traffic Gridlock

[Taozzz]

Just a question about a legal concept.

If a car overstayed the free period (say 3 hours) for customers in a retail park's carpark, because they cannot get out due to traffic gridlock outside of the carpark; would you say the parking contract is 'frustrated' based on English contract law? Or is it some other concept?

P.S. there is no way to pay for the extra time after 3 hours.

Thanks in advance.

[RazerSauber]

Have you tried contacting the parking company in question and telling them there was traffic and you couldn't leave on time? I assume you and numerous others will have been in the same boat.

[Taozzz]

Thanks. I know the practical steps for appeals etc, but just want clarity on the concept.

[Simpo Two]

Hopefully they have video footage showing a big queue of cars all stuck waiting to get out - that should help.

[kestral]

Taozzz said:

Just a question about a legal concept.

If a car overstayed the free period (say 3 hours) for customers in a retail park's carpark, because they cannot get out due to traffic gridlock outside of the carpark; would you say the parking contract is 'frustrated' based on English contract law? Or is it some other concept?

P.S. there is no way to pay for the extra time after 3 hours.

Thanks in advance.

If it's an out of course situation maybe(caused by an accident/incident ect), but just busy traffic doubtful.

[skyebear]

In this hypothetical situation is the driver's vehicle stuck in a space or have they exited the space and become gridlocked in an egress lane?

[Billy Eyelash]

If the driver is stuck in a queue waiting to get out of the car park, they are not parked and therefore any penalty would be invalid.

[Boleros]

Billy Eyelash said:

If the driver is stuck in a queue waiting to get out of the car park, they are not parked and therefore any penalty would be invalid.

Which is fine but they use entry and exit times to calculate a stay, not whether it's in a parking space.

[OutInTheShed]

Taozzz said:

Just a question about a legal concept.

If a car overstayed the free period (say 3 hours) for customers in a retail park's carpark, because they cannot get out due to traffic gridlock outside of the carpark; would you say the parking contract is 'frustrated' based on English contract law? Or is it some other concept?

P.S. there is no way to pay for the extra time after 3 hours.

Thanks in advance.

Maybe a reasonable person ought to allow a reasonable amount of time to exit the carpark, so if gridlock made it take an hour to get out, you'd have a case, but if a little ordinary traffic made it take you 3 minutes to get out, you would not?

Might depend if the gridlock was caused by an unusual, unforeseeable event like a terrorist bomb or freak weather, rather than predictably hopeless rush hour traffic?

[Simpo Two]

Boleros said:

Billy Eyelash said:

If the driver is stuck in a queue waiting to get out of the car park, they are not parked and therefore any penalty would be invalid.

Which is fine but they use entry and exit times to calculate a stay, not whether it's in a parking space.

But if the user is unable to exit even if desperate to do so? I think this is a case for humans over computers.

[Batfoy]

Simpo Two said:

Boleros said:

Billy Eyelash said:

If the driver is stuck in a queue waiting to get out of the car park, they are not parked and therefore any penalty would be invalid.

Which is fine but they use entry and exit times to calculate a stay, not whether it's in a parking space.

But if the user is unable to exit even if desperate to do so? I think this is a case for humans over computers.

Oh I agree, just highlighting that exit and entry times are used rather than being physically parked for ‘fines’.

[Taozzz]

Thanks for the interesting points. Just to clarify a few points:
1. Gridlock was caused by council roadwork half mile down the road. No road was closed, just reduced lanes. But quirks in road layout etc means the retail park car park was badly affected.
2. If it makes any difference, 1.5 hrs was spent on actual shopping etc, then 3 hrs in the queue to get out. And it finally got better because the roadwork crew had done their work for the day and left.

[BertBert]

In contractual terms it sounds like a force majeure event. That might be catered for in the terms or covered by statute.

[GR86oldboy]

Taozzz said:

Thanks for the interesting points. Just to clarify a few points:
1. Gridlock was caused by council roadwork half mile down the road. No road was closed, just reduced lanes. But quirks in road layout etc means the retail park car park was badly affected.
2. If it makes any difference, 1.5 hrs was spent on actual shopping etc, then 3 hrs in the queue to get out. And it finally got better because the roadwork crew had done their work for the day and left.

3hrs trying to get out? are you sure you haven't got your timings the wrong way round?

[Mezzanine]

GR86oldboy said:

Taozzz said:

Thanks for the interesting points. Just to clarify a few points:
1. Gridlock was caused by council roadwork half mile down the road. No road was closed, just reduced lanes. But quirks in road layout etc means the retail park car park was badly affected.
2. If it makes any difference, 1.5 hrs was spent on actual shopping etc, then 3 hrs in the queue to get out. And it finally got better because the roadwork crew had done their work for the day and left.

3hrs trying to get out? are you sure you haven't got your timings the wrong way round?

Either way, after 30mins I would have just left the car there and taken a fine and walked home.

Who spends 3hrs queuing to get out of a car park??

[vikingaero]

Mezzanine said:

GR86oldboy said:

Taozzz said:

Thanks for the interesting points. Just to clarify a few points:
1. Gridlock was caused by council roadwork half mile down the road. No road was closed, just reduced lanes. But quirks in road layout etc means the retail park car park was badly affected.
2. If it makes any difference, 1.5 hrs was spent on actual shopping etc, then 3 hrs in the queue to get out. And it finally got better because the roadwork crew had done their work for the day and left.

3hrs trying to get out? are you sure you haven't got your timings the wrong way round?

Either way, after 30mins I would have just left the car there and taken a fine and walked home.

Who spends 3hrs queuing to get out of a car park??

Then the car is definitely parked for longer than 3 hours and gets a parking invoice - max stay 3 hrs.

[vindaloo79]

It took my wife and family an hour to drive out of Lego land the other day for similar reasons.

It just seemed to be poor traffic light timing at play…… zzzz

[Tommo87]

Mezzanine said:

GR86oldboy said:

Taozzz said:

Thanks for the interesting points. Just to clarify a few points:
1. Gridlock was caused by council roadwork half mile down the road. No road was closed, just reduced lanes. But quirks in road layout etc means the retail park car park was badly affected.
2. If it makes any difference, 1.5 hrs was spent on actual shopping etc, then 3 hrs in the queue to get out. And it finally got better because the roadwork crew had done their work for the day and left.

3hrs trying to get out? are you sure you haven't got your timings the wrong way round?

Either way, after 30mins I would have just left the car there and taken a fine and walked home.

Who spends 3hrs queuing to get out of a car park??

If the car park was ANPR controlled, then the camera history would evidence the gridlock in the snapshots they take.

Not to mention the other drivers having the same problem and creating an obvious and audited trend, for the same timeline.

Edited by Tommo87 on Friday 13th September 08:24

[lancslad58]

ct

Taozzz said:

Thanks for the interesting points. Just to clarify a few points:
1. Gridlock was caused by council roadwork half mile down the road. No road was closed, just reduced lanes. But quirks in road layout etc means the retail park car park was badly affected.
2. If it makes any difference, 1.5 hrs was spent on actual shopping etc, then 3 hrs in the queue to get out. And it finally got better because the roadwork crew had done their work for the day and left.

Why didn't you say that right at the beginning of the thread rather than going on about "the parking contract is 'frustrated' " as if you someone who's just googled contract law ?

[Taozzz]

BertBert said:

In contractual terms it sounds like a force majeure event. That might be catered for in the terms or covered by statute.

That's probably it.

GR86oldboy said:

3hrs trying to get out? are you sure you haven't got your timings the wrong way round?

Mezzanine said:

Who spends 3hrs queuing to get out of a car park??

When you are in there, you will simply be hoping it'll get better the next minute, and the next minute..... Later on, when the nearby Subway started to run out of food, and Costa started to run out of cakes, and the police came and went, most people around just gave up, and started playing games or watching Netflix on there phone.