Why are conveyancing solicitors so bad?
Discussion
This is not just a moan-I am genuinely interested in what goes on inside the offices of these people that causes situations, as I’ll describe, to arise. If you work in one – I would be fascinated to know what that environment is like!
We are in the midst of buying/selling a house and have just received a list of enquiries from my buyers solicitor, via our solicitor. 95% of those enquiries were for us to answer and one of them, our solicitor was dealing with, involves the requirement for a deed of variation to alter some wording in the house deeds. This process can take months , so it was bizarre to discover, with two seconds of messing about in Photoshop, that the date they received the enquiries (which they tried to redact) was seventh of August. Yet they did not start work on the variation or send us the enquiries until the 9th of September. We answered those questions in their entirety, including hand delivering some hardcopy paperwork to their offices, within 24 hours.
So either they received those enquiries a month ago and did nothing with it, despite a cursory glance showing them there was a requirement for something that could cause a significant delay so needed to be acted upon promptly. Or the solicitor below in the chain wrote the enquiries, knowing the same information, and didn’t bother posting it for weeks!
Again – not a moan, I am genuinely intrigued as to what goes on in these places that allows important paperwork to be treated/ignored in this way. It feels like the entirety of the house buying problems/delays are caused by nothing more than people not able to deal with letters and emails as they arrive.
Am I missing something?
We are in the midst of buying/selling a house and have just received a list of enquiries from my buyers solicitor, via our solicitor. 95% of those enquiries were for us to answer and one of them, our solicitor was dealing with, involves the requirement for a deed of variation to alter some wording in the house deeds. This process can take months , so it was bizarre to discover, with two seconds of messing about in Photoshop, that the date they received the enquiries (which they tried to redact) was seventh of August. Yet they did not start work on the variation or send us the enquiries until the 9th of September. We answered those questions in their entirety, including hand delivering some hardcopy paperwork to their offices, within 24 hours.
So either they received those enquiries a month ago and did nothing with it, despite a cursory glance showing them there was a requirement for something that could cause a significant delay so needed to be acted upon promptly. Or the solicitor below in the chain wrote the enquiries, knowing the same information, and didn’t bother posting it for weeks!
Again – not a moan, I am genuinely intrigued as to what goes on in these places that allows important paperwork to be treated/ignored in this way. It feels like the entirety of the house buying problems/delays are caused by nothing more than people not able to deal with letters and emails as they arrive.
Am I missing something?
They tend to be lower paid members of the profession, and most people buying and selling assume that solicitor means someone who will drive the sale - whereas reality is that they are handling lots of cases simultaneously.
Keep on top with daily contact and most will do the job pretty well, but the client’s job to drive the sale…
In the last few years family members including us have sold / bought in about 7 transactions… no issues - using the same Bristol firm - update at the end of every day and proactively chasing the others in the chain… and very reasonably priced - you just need to find the right firms!
Keep on top with daily contact and most will do the job pretty well, but the client’s job to drive the sale…
In the last few years family members including us have sold / bought in about 7 transactions… no issues - using the same Bristol firm - update at the end of every day and proactively chasing the others in the chain… and very reasonably priced - you just need to find the right firms!
akirk said:
They tend to be lower paid members of the profession, and most people buying and selling assume that solicitor means someone who will drive the sale - whereas reality is that they are handling lots of cases simultaneously.
Keep on top with daily contact and most will do the job pretty well, but the client’s job to drive the sale…
In the last few years family members including us have sold / bought in about 7 transactions… no issues - using the same Bristol firm - update at the end of every day and proactively chasing the others in the chain… and very reasonably priced - you just need to find the right firms!
This. We had a 3 party chain which should have been simple. 3 sets of conveyancers were terrible and i had to play project manager from California with daily calls and emails to other parties to drive the completion date forward. Keep on top with daily contact and most will do the job pretty well, but the client’s job to drive the sale…
In the last few years family members including us have sold / bought in about 7 transactions… no issues - using the same Bristol firm - update at the end of every day and proactively chasing the others in the chain… and very reasonably priced - you just need to find the right firms!
I tend to think it doesn't matter who you use, they are all the same and those that recommend certain practices were just lucky.
When we bought the property we were selling in this instance; our conveyancer didn't notice a court order on the house requiring owed money from the sale. It was only when we sold it that the new buyers ones did!
The ones we used when moving were slightly better than average. Our buyers one though was just utterly terrible. They’d used the EAs kickback recommended one. Ended up getting some of their fees back. The sellers we bought from had one who was useless and took weeks to answer the simplest of enquiries. Turns out there was a reason for that (for another thread another time) If you find a good one never let them go no matter where they are and where you are moving too or from because a majority are just s
t and know that realistically there is very close to fk all you can do about it!
t and know that realistically there is very close to fk all you can do about it!Our family business is property, 38 units, mainly commercial with a half a dozen residential. We buy and sell a few each year.
For the past decade we've used a fantastic commercial property surveyor who knows that if he doesn't send us twice weekly updates, he will get emails from us. The residential side is more labour intensive. We normally use a local 2 man partnership in a small town who are very reliable. On occasion, for out of area purchases, we have used the conveyancers recommended by the estate agents (for which there are probable kick backs) and more often than not we've realised that they are the conveyancing farms based around the Manchester/Cheshire area - multiple teams of admin overseen by a conveyancer and then a solicitor looking after the sale of hundreds or thousands of properties at any one time. They are pretty uncontactable and poor.
For the past decade we've used a fantastic commercial property surveyor who knows that if he doesn't send us twice weekly updates, he will get emails from us. The residential side is more labour intensive. We normally use a local 2 man partnership in a small town who are very reliable. On occasion, for out of area purchases, we have used the conveyancers recommended by the estate agents (for which there are probable kick backs) and more often than not we've realised that they are the conveyancing farms based around the Manchester/Cheshire area - multiple teams of admin overseen by a conveyancer and then a solicitor looking after the sale of hundreds or thousands of properties at any one time. They are pretty uncontactable and poor.
I have to admit, having sold twice and bought once in 3 separate transactions in 3 different areas that my experience was diabolical!
At EVERY point I had to remind/tell them about what I would have considered "bread & butter" tasks.
Even down to the final one telling them 5 times that they had received my money at 09:00 when they wouldn't tell the EA to release the keys until the 6th call at 16:00 when we had been waiting all day on the drive to move in.
Then the last time they confirmed they had received it at 09:00 and they were very sorry!!!!!!!!!
At EVERY point I had to remind/tell them about what I would have considered "bread & butter" tasks.
Even down to the final one telling them 5 times that they had received my money at 09:00 when they wouldn't tell the EA to release the keys until the 6th call at 16:00 when we had been waiting all day on the drive to move in.
Then the last time they confirmed they had received it at 09:00 and they were very sorry!!!!!!!!!
I handled the sale of late FILs place and the buyer's solicitor was very on it, although she did get in strop about missing guarantees etc for work that was done before FIL bought the place. Buyer told her he wasn’t bothered but she made him sign a waiver. The EA I used was over the top pushy - they had a tracking portal which, to my surprise, the buyer’s solicitor faithfully updated with every step - but I had to tell them to back off from chasing our solicitor, they’d chase the day after the buyer’s solicitor sent something.
We used FILs old family solicitor, who is also a judge. It was clear he was only looking at it late in the evening and was still doing the thing of sending emails to his secretary to send out, although he usually copied us.
Did it all in 7 weeks - our solicitor said 8 and buyer's said 6. Buyer was in rental and up against a deadline to vacate.
We used FILs old family solicitor, who is also a judge. It was clear he was only looking at it late in the evening and was still doing the thing of sending emails to his secretary to send out, although he usually copied us.
Did it all in 7 weeks - our solicitor said 8 and buyer's said 6. Buyer was in rental and up against a deadline to vacate.
You would think there would be a gap in the market for somebody to set up a company acknowledging the majority of people working in that sector are complete Muppets and I promise they will be doing things very differently. Simple stuff like an app so you can see where things are at, at . In 2024-how hard is that?
The problem with lawyers is they learn rules and interpretation of rules.
In my very extensive experience they are incredibly good at following rules, even to personal and client detriment.
They are less good at applying common sense to rules in order to get a satisfactory outcome.
So you end up with one of two scenarios, depending on the complexity of the engagement. You either have some administrating on your behalf in a headless chicken manner.
Or, in more complex cases you have someone telling you what you can’t do, and when you try to talk about pragmatically navigating through the issue, you end up with a bit of a computer says no answer.
I have come across a few lawyers who are more switched on, generally commercial lawyers.
In my very extensive experience they are incredibly good at following rules, even to personal and client detriment.
They are less good at applying common sense to rules in order to get a satisfactory outcome.
So you end up with one of two scenarios, depending on the complexity of the engagement. You either have some administrating on your behalf in a headless chicken manner.
Or, in more complex cases you have someone telling you what you can’t do, and when you try to talk about pragmatically navigating through the issue, you end up with a bit of a computer says no answer.
I have come across a few lawyers who are more switched on, generally commercial lawyers.
Mark Lewis said:
You would think there would be a gap in the market for somebody to set up a company acknowledging the majority of people working in that sector are complete Muppets and I promise they will be doing things very differently. Simple stuff like an app so you can see where things are at, at . In 2024-how hard is that?
We had something along those lines last year when we remortgaged to clear our help to buy loan. Used a firm from our lenders approved list and it had an online portal which you could track progress every step of the way. It was st. I think it got updated twice, once very early on and then once at the very end, a complete waste of time. Didn't help the solicitors were also fking useless.A lot of the blame can be placed on the relationship some of them have with the cheap, flat-fee estate agents. They take on far more work than they should and if some cases are delayed then they don't care.
There's one of the big ones I've had experience with and their operations director has no legal background but has run call centres. The folk handling the day to day might have been working in recruitment or IT sales the week before.
There's one of the big ones I've had experience with and their operations director has no legal background but has run call centres. The folk handling the day to day might have been working in recruitment or IT sales the week before.
A friend of my daughter studied law and became a solicitor. She ended up working in property for a firm (mostly domestic conveyancing) and her workload was astronomical. She worked huge hours, still couldn't keep on top of it and nearly had a breakdown. She left and changed legal careers and is now enjoying being a lawyer.
It's not surprising the service provided under such circs ends up being really poor.
My personal experience of solicitors work on property and wills/probate is uniformly shocking - truly terrible as others have said.
It's not surprising the service provided under such circs ends up being really poor.
My personal experience of solicitors work on property and wills/probate is uniformly shocking - truly terrible as others have said.
I currently work in senior finance in one of the largest conveyancing solicitors firms in the UK.
If I were to summarise the hundreds of solicitors we have in very broad brush terms it'd be that they've clearly very intelligent people, but not very clever and their back office skills are nothing short of woeful. Sometimes to the benefit to clients (thousands of people are undercharged or not invoiced at all each year) and sometimes to their detriment (not actioning letters in a timely fashion for example). Thankfully SRA rules are tight so overcharging isn't really an issue.
Bear in mind that most matters in the conveyancing area are fixed fee and imo fairly good value for money given the costs have barely risen these last five or so years. The impact that has is less time to keep on top of matters, as you've observed.
If I were to summarise the hundreds of solicitors we have in very broad brush terms it'd be that they've clearly very intelligent people, but not very clever and their back office skills are nothing short of woeful. Sometimes to the benefit to clients (thousands of people are undercharged or not invoiced at all each year) and sometimes to their detriment (not actioning letters in a timely fashion for example). Thankfully SRA rules are tight so overcharging isn't really an issue.
Bear in mind that most matters in the conveyancing area are fixed fee and imo fairly good value for money given the costs have barely risen these last five or so years. The impact that has is less time to keep on top of matters, as you've observed.
just gone through this with a remortgage, service was utterly tragic but i guess that's fixed cost conveyancing for you.
72+ hour response times
requesting the same document multiple times
requesting documents we've never previously needed, which have a processing cost and when challenged are miraculously needed
failing to pass on instructions from the current mortgage provider
demanding sign off of a 7 day reflection period waiver form on updated mortgage offers when they had no actions to do for weeks
I'll certainly not use the same solicitors again
72+ hour response times
requesting the same document multiple times
requesting documents we've never previously needed, which have a processing cost and when challenged are miraculously needed
failing to pass on instructions from the current mortgage provider
demanding sign off of a 7 day reflection period waiver form on updated mortgage offers when they had no actions to do for weeks
I'll certainly not use the same solicitors again
Mark Lewis said:
You would think there would be a gap in the market for somebody to set up a company acknowledging the majority of people working in that sector are complete Muppets and I promise they will be doing things very differently. Simple stuff like an app so you can see where things are at, at . In 2024-how hard is that?
My conveyancer had one. It wasn't particularly helpful since at least half the documents had to be printed from there (necessitating the purchase of a printer and the technical knowhow to make it work with a phone) and posted back. Some documents could be read on there but it was a wise idea to save them all since they close the access to the app with the sale. They did manage to sort our house sale out in record time though, just 8 months. Nope, not a typo. 8 whole months. Without wishing to name and shame them, they were property lawyers that described themselves as premier. Conveyancing is done by solicitors for a far lower fee than it takes for the time, compared with normal work. They do it because it’s the bread and butter for most firms but therefore they put their cheapest resources onto it and spend as little time as possible. People buy on price but you get what you pay for. I use some excellent solicitors for expensive purchases but it costs x3 other people.
I used some high street solicitors recently for a cheaper purchase and they were crap. An internet bunch at half the price couldn’t have been worse.
I used some high street solicitors recently for a cheaper purchase and they were crap. An internet bunch at half the price couldn’t have been worse.
Mrs. Hants and I are currently trying to buy a property nearby. We don't need finance and the seller is not part of a chain. It really should be a simple, quick transaction. We're using a large solicitors/conveyancing firm on the local business park. We are deeply unimpressed with the service received. Emails go unanswered, calls often go to voicemail and there's never a reply. Everything seems to take forever to happen; it's been three months since we instructed and we seem no further forward, despite the survey having been completed.
My wife even went in to the conveyancers' office in person to speak to the 'executive' handling our purchase. He actually called her by my (male, obviously) first name (!!) and asked about our mortgage when he should know we don't need finance. If that's the typical standard of employee they have then I suppose the service level shouldn't be a surprise.
My wife even went in to the conveyancers' office in person to speak to the 'executive' handling our purchase. He actually called her by my (male, obviously) first name (!!) and asked about our mortgage when he should know we don't need finance. If that's the typical standard of employee they have then I suppose the service level shouldn't be a surprise.
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