One for the Traffic Police
Discussion
On the M3 between J2 and J3 there are 4 lanes due to it being a 'smart' motorway.and carries on after J3 to 4A?
I travel along it quite at lot from J2 to J3 and found, more often than not, tha L1 is my own lane, Now most of the traffic is bunched in L3 and 4 with the occasional 'MLM' in L2
Many times, normally late at night i can do the journey totally in L1, only going into L2 to pass a HGV or slower slower vehicle and then resume the drive in L1.
On other occasions the L2/3/4 are bunching and going at a speed less then 70 sometimes as low as 50.
As i have caught these up whilst being in L1 and going at the NSL can i legally pass them still in L1 or must i do the L1-2-3-4-3-2-1 move.?
Other times the L2 traffic is spaced out that it would, IMHO, be a rather dodgy move to keep 'making progress' by changing lanes out and back at short intervals in or can i carry on a L1 at a speed greater than them
OR must i reduce my speed to match the traffic to my right in order not to contravene any Laws?
I travel along it quite at lot from J2 to J3 and found, more often than not, tha L1 is my own lane, Now most of the traffic is bunched in L3 and 4 with the occasional 'MLM' in L2
Many times, normally late at night i can do the journey totally in L1, only going into L2 to pass a HGV or slower slower vehicle and then resume the drive in L1.
On other occasions the L2/3/4 are bunching and going at a speed less then 70 sometimes as low as 50.
As i have caught these up whilst being in L1 and going at the NSL can i legally pass them still in L1 or must i do the L1-2-3-4-3-2-1 move.?
Other times the L2 traffic is spaced out that it would, IMHO, be a rather dodgy move to keep 'making progress' by changing lanes out and back at short intervals in or can i carry on a L1 at a speed greater than them
OR must i reduce my speed to match the traffic to my right in order not to contravene any Laws?
Highway Code said:
268. Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to
overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic
are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may
sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these
conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this
means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and
out of lanes to overtake.
It says congested traffic, with no definition of congested. Also it forbids weaving in and out.overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic
are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may
sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these
conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this
means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and
out of lanes to overtake.
Awaits other postersl with one of seventeen different answers.
SD.
silverfoxcc said:
On the M3 between J2 and J3 there are 4 lanes due to it being a 'smart' motorway.and carries on after J3 to 4A?
I travel along it quite at lot from J2 to J3 and found, more often than not, tha L1 is my own lane, Now most of the traffic is bunched in L3 and 4 with the occasional 'MLM' in L2
Many times, normally late at night i can do the journey totally in L1, only going into L2 to pass a HGV or slower slower vehicle and then resume the drive in L1.
On other occasions the L2/3/4 are bunching and going at a speed less then 70 sometimes as low as 50.
As i have caught these up whilst being in L1 and going at the NSL can i legally pass them still in L1 or must i do the L1-2-3-4-3-2-1 move.?
Other times the L2 traffic is spaced out that it would, IMHO, be a rather dodgy move to keep 'making progress' by changing lanes out and back at short intervals in or can i carry on a L1 at a speed greater than them
OR must i reduce my speed to match the traffic to my right in order not to contravene any Laws?
It depends.I travel along it quite at lot from J2 to J3 and found, more often than not, tha L1 is my own lane, Now most of the traffic is bunched in L3 and 4 with the occasional 'MLM' in L2
Many times, normally late at night i can do the journey totally in L1, only going into L2 to pass a HGV or slower slower vehicle and then resume the drive in L1.
On other occasions the L2/3/4 are bunching and going at a speed less then 70 sometimes as low as 50.
As i have caught these up whilst being in L1 and going at the NSL can i legally pass them still in L1 or must i do the L1-2-3-4-3-2-1 move.?
Other times the L2 traffic is spaced out that it would, IMHO, be a rather dodgy move to keep 'making progress' by changing lanes out and back at short intervals in or can i carry on a L1 at a speed greater than them
OR must i reduce my speed to match the traffic to my right in order not to contravene any Laws?
E-bmw said:
cobra kid said:
If I've been in L1 for a while and going at a happy legal speed, I carefully pass those on the right as I haven't changed lanes to do it.
That is my take on it, if you don't change lane you aren't "undertaking" you are in a queue.HC Rule 268 said:
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake.
Ordinarily you should not pass on the left (whether you change lanes or not). There is no specific offence of passing on the left, just as there is no specific offence of MLMing.
The Highway Code gives advice of when it's considered permissible to pass on the left.
Your problems come when, due to your interpretation of the HC & circumstances, that you think it was permissible to pass on the left but the state disagrees with you.
The offence you'd be dealt with then is for s2 or s3 RTA 1988, the same offence that MLMing would come under too.
As most of us will have experienced, this is all very well until you get an idiot in lane 4.
I was on the M1 last week when a car joined at a junction - and pulled out straightaway into the outside, lane 4 and stuck at around 65mph. Eventually, most other drivers simply went up lane 3 but that shouldn't have been necessary.
We really do need to improve the training for motorway drivers......... It will never happen of course.
I was on the M1 last week when a car joined at a junction - and pulled out straightaway into the outside, lane 4 and stuck at around 65mph. Eventually, most other drivers simply went up lane 3 but that shouldn't have been necessary.
We really do need to improve the training for motorway drivers......... It will never happen of course.
BertBert said:
How do you get to that conclusion. MLM'ing is staying in a lane other than lane 1 when you are not overtaking anything in the lane to the left of you.
Because smart motorways with no hard shoulder and insufficient refuges are dangerous. Being in L2 gives more options if a broken down vehicle is encountered.VSKeith said:
Because smart motorways with no hard shoulder and insufficient refuges are dangerous. Being in L2 gives more options if a broken down vehicle is encountered.
But surely that’s one of the reasons we have mirrors, indicators and a steering wheel? If you are looking far enough ahead, you will be able to spot any potential hazards in any lane and move accordingly.Far left lane, no matter how many, is the driving lane. Any lane to the right of that is an overtaking lane. Once overtake is complete, move back to the driving lane.
CoreyDog said:
VSKeith said:
Because smart motorways with no hard shoulder and insufficient refuges are dangerous. Being in L2 gives more options if a broken down vehicle is encountered.
But surely that’s one of the reasons we have mirrors, indicators and a steering wheel? If you are looking far enough ahead, you will be able to spot any potential hazards in any lane and move accordingly.Far left lane, no matter how many, is the driving lane. Any lane to the right of that is an overtaking lane. Once overtake is complete, move back to the driving lane.
.
SydneyBridge said:
If it is clear the person in L2 is not going to move into L1, i consider it safer to stay in L1, rather than going into L3 and back to L1
I don't think it's as black and white as that and as Von mentions above, it depends. If the driver "wakes up" he's going to be heading for L1 not L3 (with a mirror/blind spot check if you're lucky) so I'd argue it's safer to be predictable and use L3 to overtake where you can.Chris
silverfoxcc said:
On the M3 between J2 and J3 there are 4 lanes due to it being a 'smart' motorway.and carries on after J3 to 4A?
On occasions the L2/3/4 are bunching and going at a speed less then 70 sometimes as low as 50.
Seeing as its a 50 limit on that stretch from 2-4a, surely the question would be why are they going more than the 50 limit in full knowledge of the average speed cameras?On occasions the L2/3/4 are bunching and going at a speed less then 70 sometimes as low as 50.
I pass cars one after the other after the other in L1 - routinely. I get fairly close, ease off a touch to check they were not "daydreaming, see me, and then suddenly pull in", then I pass them at a moderate speed differential - not too slow so I'm hanging about unduly in their blind spot, and not fast enough for it to me seen as dangerous/aggressive. Im always ready to pull left into the hard shoulder. Obvs on smart motorways there is no hard shoulder to escape to in this event - so it may be seen differently? (legally).
Been doing it for years, now that MLM'ing is common as muck. Those that do it are increasing in numbers and as their numbers increase, they use those increased numbers to justify their actions. I dont' get woulnd up any more, I just pass them on the left.
Incidentally, I noticed on the way home the other day that on 4 lane motorways, the MLMs move to L3.. :-) Kinda wipes out all their "arguments" about L1 being full of potholes and lorry tracks. The mind boggles.
Back to the OP - on a shoulderless motorway I'd be wary of using L1 to pass L2 as there is no escape for you if they decide to pull back in and havent' seen you.
Been doing it for years, now that MLM'ing is common as muck. Those that do it are increasing in numbers and as their numbers increase, they use those increased numbers to justify their actions. I dont' get woulnd up any more, I just pass them on the left.
Incidentally, I noticed on the way home the other day that on 4 lane motorways, the MLMs move to L3.. :-) Kinda wipes out all their "arguments" about L1 being full of potholes and lorry tracks. The mind boggles.
Back to the OP - on a shoulderless motorway I'd be wary of using L1 to pass L2 as there is no escape for you if they decide to pull back in and havent' seen you.
hurstg01 said:
Seeing as its a 50 limit on that stretch from 2-4a, surely the question would be why are they going more than the 50 limit in full knowledge of the average speed cameras?
Gonna say, had to do the M3 in both directions on Monday last and most of it is a 50 limit from memory?Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff