Major House Fire - Claims Assessor?
Discussion
Evening all,
I’d be really grateful if anyone with knowledge could advise. On 22nd August we experienced a major house fire, as far as I can see, the entire ground floor is gutted and the 1st floor both badly damaged by heat and smoke.
The claims adjuster is to attend in the coming days to make their judgement. Obviously he/she works on behalf of the insurance company.
What are people’s thoughts on the use of a claims assessor? The building we’re talking about is worth approx £200k, contents wise I’ve got approx 50k insured. It’s a small 3 bed house.
My thoughts are, will the use of a claims assessor anger the loss adjuster and in so doing prejudice this desire to be helpful? I don’t want to alienate them before the process has even started? I’ve spoken to a loss assessor already, working on a no win, no fee basis. Naturally they’re getting the money from the contractors they provide to complete the works. Are these going to be quality contractors is my concern.
Anyone with knowledge and experience, I’d be happy to hear your thoughts
I’d be really grateful if anyone with knowledge could advise. On 22nd August we experienced a major house fire, as far as I can see, the entire ground floor is gutted and the 1st floor both badly damaged by heat and smoke.
The claims adjuster is to attend in the coming days to make their judgement. Obviously he/she works on behalf of the insurance company.
What are people’s thoughts on the use of a claims assessor? The building we’re talking about is worth approx £200k, contents wise I’ve got approx 50k insured. It’s a small 3 bed house.
My thoughts are, will the use of a claims assessor anger the loss adjuster and in so doing prejudice this desire to be helpful? I don’t want to alienate them before the process has even started? I’ve spoken to a loss assessor already, working on a no win, no fee basis. Naturally they’re getting the money from the contractors they provide to complete the works. Are these going to be quality contractors is my concern.
Anyone with knowledge and experience, I’d be happy to hear your thoughts
A loss assessor doesn't have any special powers but what they should have is experience and a methodical process which may be useful if you're feeling overburdened given the traumatic event. Check the Institute of Public Loss Assessors to make sure you choose one who are FCA-regulated.
Not to be overly cynical but a loss assessor on a no win, no fee basis needs a "win" to get paid.
It's your house so nothing is stopping you from doing what a loss assessor would do and start obtaining quotes from contractors you trust.
If you do appoint a loss assessor it won't alienate the loss adjuster - they don't care, you're just another case ID and they'll speak with you or your rep.
Keep a spreadsheet with all costs and take a photo of receipts.
Not to be overly cynical but a loss assessor on a no win, no fee basis needs a "win" to get paid.
It's your house so nothing is stopping you from doing what a loss assessor would do and start obtaining quotes from contractors you trust.
If you do appoint a loss assessor it won't alienate the loss adjuster - they don't care, you're just another case ID and they'll speak with you or your rep.
Keep a spreadsheet with all costs and take a photo of receipts.
A mate is a surveyor and often works for loss adjusters in these circumstances to get the building repaired properly via a competitive tender, including kitchens, bathrooms etc.
He has to inspect and as long as you’re not in an odd location, uses trusted contractors so whilst the owners are never happy, the job is actually sound and they get your buy in as to finishes and spec. You can complain to the RICS if you find wrongdoing. He does get into scraps with the loss adjusters at times over what he is not prepared to specify, I.e, cut corners.
I’d be wary of the assessor in terms of the buildings part of the claim if they have control over the reinstatement as they are unregulated.
He has to inspect and as long as you’re not in an odd location, uses trusted contractors so whilst the owners are never happy, the job is actually sound and they get your buy in as to finishes and spec. You can complain to the RICS if you find wrongdoing. He does get into scraps with the loss adjusters at times over what he is not prepared to specify, I.e, cut corners.
I’d be wary of the assessor in terms of the buildings part of the claim if they have control over the reinstatement as they are unregulated.
Firstly sorry to read about your Fire.
As you say the Loss adjuster works for your Insurer and will be amongst other things checking you are insured to value ,the fire is genuine and suggesting back to the Insurer their thoughts for settlement.
Any private loss assessor you employ will obviously need to be paid by you but I would be very wary of any companies advertising no win no fee type structure.
At this stage I'm not sure why you wouldn't wait for the loss adjuster to do their job and then see what the Insurer comes back with ?
If all is as it should be with your policy and the loss itself your policy should put you back into the same position as you were prior to any loss.
As you say the Loss adjuster works for your Insurer and will be amongst other things checking you are insured to value ,the fire is genuine and suggesting back to the Insurer their thoughts for settlement.
Any private loss assessor you employ will obviously need to be paid by you but I would be very wary of any companies advertising no win no fee type structure.
At this stage I'm not sure why you wouldn't wait for the loss adjuster to do their job and then see what the Insurer comes back with ?
If all is as it should be with your policy and the loss itself your policy should put you back into the same position as you were prior to any loss.
The value of the house is irrelevant. It is the rebuilding cost that is important. I hope you were insured the full value.
I can pretty much guarantee that they will telling you that you were underinsured and they are only going to pay percentage of the claim (it is called averaging)
I had similar last year. Very distressing, it took 12 months at least to fight it via the insurance Ombudsman.
The insurers will try and ‘starve’ you into accepting a lesser settlement.
A loss adjuster won’t help IMO, so long as your are upfront and truthful and don’t try and claim for your fictitious items.
Good luck.
I can pretty much guarantee that they will telling you that you were underinsured and they are only going to pay percentage of the claim (it is called averaging)
I had similar last year. Very distressing, it took 12 months at least to fight it via the insurance Ombudsman.
The insurers will try and ‘starve’ you into accepting a lesser settlement.
A loss adjuster won’t help IMO, so long as your are upfront and truthful and don’t try and claim for your fictitious items.
Good luck.
Peter911 said:
The value of the house is irrelevant. It is the rebuilding cost that is important. I hope you were insured the full value.
I can pretty much guarantee that they will telling you that you were underinsured and they are only going to pay percentage of the claim (it is called averaging)
I had similar last year. Very distressing, it took 12 months at least to fight it via the insurance Ombudsman.
The insurers will try and ‘starve’ you into accepting a lesser settlement.
A loss adjuster won’t help IMO, so long as your are upfront and truthful and don’t try and claim for your fictitious items.
Good luck.
But also worth saying to the OP that some policies also guarantee rebuilding values up to a certain amount which in many cases makes the rebuild value something not to worry about and that's exactly what they are marketed as such.I can pretty much guarantee that they will telling you that you were underinsured and they are only going to pay percentage of the claim (it is called averaging)
I had similar last year. Very distressing, it took 12 months at least to fight it via the insurance Ombudsman.
The insurers will try and ‘starve’ you into accepting a lesser settlement.
A loss adjuster won’t help IMO, so long as your are upfront and truthful and don’t try and claim for your fictitious items.
Good luck.
If you insure to say 50% of the real value then unsurprisingly the Insurer will apply average as you have ( in theory ) also only paid 50% of the premium they would have charged.
What many people then don't realise is having only insured 50%, whatever the loss quantum is ( ie if a partial loss ) the Insurer will then only pay 50% of the actual loss.
As you say very distressing and certainly for any house that may be older or unusual or a particularly higher value you should always think about a Insurance valuation by an independent surveyor for rebuild purposes particularly if you haven't had one done for a few years.
Thank you everyone for your input.
With regards under insuring, we have £1 million for buildings and £50k contents. It’s only a small mid terrance building and we don’t live expensive lifestyles with designer goods etc. I’m hopefully having created a spreadsheet of belongings we should be okay.
Regards building cover, £1million must be more than enough for a £200k property.
I’m inclined to meet the adjuster and see what he proposes. My issue is, I don’t have an understanding of what a realistic offer is, and naturally don’t want to accept something that’s going to leave us unable to complete the works. I assume this would be the role of a building surveyor?
With regards under insuring, we have £1 million for buildings and £50k contents. It’s only a small mid terrance building and we don’t live expensive lifestyles with designer goods etc. I’m hopefully having created a spreadsheet of belongings we should be okay.
Regards building cover, £1million must be more than enough for a £200k property.
I’m inclined to meet the adjuster and see what he proposes. My issue is, I don’t have an understanding of what a realistic offer is, and naturally don’t want to accept something that’s going to leave us unable to complete the works. I assume this would be the role of a building surveyor?
Loss Assessors do serve a purpose, and there are a couple of good ones out there...but there are tonnes of bad ones! There will be a cost you will have to pay (insurance won't cover) and they will be making a 20-30% margin on the repair FYI so demand good value if you go down this route.
The adjuster IS working for the insurer, but no adjuster is incentivised to decline or reduce claims - it's a myth, and consumer duty has insurers almost going the other way to evidence fair outcomes/good value etc.
Meet the adjuster and see what they say - you mention an offer...normally the insurer will manage the repair via the adjuster. The repair industry is a little fractured at the moment, so you may not get the best experience. If the damage is to a big enough extent, the adjuster will likely appoint a chartered surveyor to manage the repair and possibly tender for the work - this will be a positive situation for you as the surveyor will effectively project manage your job.
See what they say and go from there.
The adjuster IS working for the insurer, but no adjuster is incentivised to decline or reduce claims - it's a myth, and consumer duty has insurers almost going the other way to evidence fair outcomes/good value etc.
Meet the adjuster and see what they say - you mention an offer...normally the insurer will manage the repair via the adjuster. The repair industry is a little fractured at the moment, so you may not get the best experience. If the damage is to a big enough extent, the adjuster will likely appoint a chartered surveyor to manage the repair and possibly tender for the work - this will be a positive situation for you as the surveyor will effectively project manage your job.
See what they say and go from there.
CKR83 said:
Thank you everyone for your input.
With regards under insuring, we have £1 million for buildings and £50k contents. It’s only a small mid terrance building and we don’t live expensive lifestyles with designer goods etc. I’m hopefully having created a spreadsheet of belongings we should be okay.
Regards building cover, £1million must be more than enough for a £200k property.
I’m inclined to meet the adjuster and see what he proposes. My issue is, I don’t have an understanding of what a realistic offer is, and naturally don’t want to accept something that’s going to leave us unable to complete the works. I assume this would be the role of a building surveyor?
Building insurance agree that won't be an issue.With regards under insuring, we have £1 million for buildings and £50k contents. It’s only a small mid terrance building and we don’t live expensive lifestyles with designer goods etc. I’m hopefully having created a spreadsheet of belongings we should be okay.
Regards building cover, £1million must be more than enough for a £200k property.
I’m inclined to meet the adjuster and see what he proposes. My issue is, I don’t have an understanding of what a realistic offer is, and naturally don’t want to accept something that’s going to leave us unable to complete the works. I assume this would be the role of a building surveyor?
Contents may be a tad tighter - its genuinely scary how quickly the quantum mounts but relative to the building value would hope that's fine too.
You do have an understanding of what the contents cost will be its just what they will then offer on settlement.
Usually certain things like Jewellery and the like they will be able to obtain better value themselves and indeed this may extend to other domestic items.
Property damage itself is obviously more difficult to calculate yourself in cost terms.
Basically you ideally want them to simply agree full clean up and restitution to how things were and full replacement of all contents.
I assume that the house is uninhabitable so your policy also covers additional living expenses ie rent or whatever for something nearby ?
All of this should be discussed with the loss adjuster.
Hopefully it will all go well for you.
Good luck!
I'm professionally involved in a site that had a fire. Quite a complicated building with I think 5 loss adjusters appointed. It has been eye-opening.
Some of the things I saw were surprising - they messed around discussing liability for months before the top hat went on to make the building water tight (ish). There are a number of flats that are fire-damaged and consequently water-damaged. They are paying £300 per over to have them reconditioned rather than replace, which can only cost a fraction more...
I tend to agree with the majority here though.. Have the first meeting and go from there.
I'm professionally involved in a site that had a fire. Quite a complicated building with I think 5 loss adjusters appointed. It has been eye-opening.
Some of the things I saw were surprising - they messed around discussing liability for months before the top hat went on to make the building water tight (ish). There are a number of flats that are fire-damaged and consequently water-damaged. They are paying £300 per over to have them reconditioned rather than replace, which can only cost a fraction more...
I tend to agree with the majority here though.. Have the first meeting and go from there.
Peter911 said:
I can pretty much guarantee that they will telling you that you were underinsured and they are only going to pay percentage of the claim (it is called averaging)
Absolute rubbish. Just because it happened to you doesn't mean you can guarantee anything. A lot of people are underinsured and have issues, some people are borderline and might have problems, and others are clearly insured adequately and don't have problems.About 6 years ago we suffered a burst pipe and some serious damage resulted. At no point did under insurance even get mentioned, and indeed the loss adjuster pointed out to me that repainting the area of the room that was damaged, as per my expectations, whilst leaving the rest, would look crap, and gave the go ahead for a larger repair than I had requested.
I'm a loss adjuster so hopefully I can help a bit with this?
We are appointed by the insurers and act on behalf of both them and the policy holder. Certain situations require an expert on the ground, larger losses being one of them. The adjuster is there to help you, they are an expert and they don't cost you anything. As long as everything is in order they would look to coordinate insurers panel suppliers to start repair works or make recommendations for cash settlements where necessary.
If it is covered we pay it and we always are fair, in my job I want to get people back on their feet as soon as possible, I get much more job satisfaction out of that than declining a claim or having to consider any under insurance aspect, this just makes my job harder. Everyone I know is fair and will look to settle as per the entitlement under the policy.
Loss assessors can be good but on the whole I find them akin to ambulance chasers, they will take their fee out of your claim settlement, wrongly state that adjusters are working on behalf of insurers to minimise the value of your claim, this isn't true and generally cause problems and slow the process down. I have had a number of assessors kicked off claims owing to dubious practices. I would advise that you google a chap called Nigel Peregrine for his you tube advice relating to loss assessors.
Loss adjusters also earn bonus on fee income we generate, we generally get paid more for a higher settlement therefore it isn't in our interests to start to knock claims down as much as possible, we also want to get claims settled and off our desks as soon as possible.
It has been commented that insurers are much more customer focused nowadays, this is definitely the case now and treating the customer fairly is very much at the forefront of insurer culture.
I hope this gives you some comfort, please feel to message me as I know how daunting these situations can be. I would just say put your trust in the adjuster, we genuinely try to do our best by people.
We are appointed by the insurers and act on behalf of both them and the policy holder. Certain situations require an expert on the ground, larger losses being one of them. The adjuster is there to help you, they are an expert and they don't cost you anything. As long as everything is in order they would look to coordinate insurers panel suppliers to start repair works or make recommendations for cash settlements where necessary.
If it is covered we pay it and we always are fair, in my job I want to get people back on their feet as soon as possible, I get much more job satisfaction out of that than declining a claim or having to consider any under insurance aspect, this just makes my job harder. Everyone I know is fair and will look to settle as per the entitlement under the policy.
Loss assessors can be good but on the whole I find them akin to ambulance chasers, they will take their fee out of your claim settlement, wrongly state that adjusters are working on behalf of insurers to minimise the value of your claim, this isn't true and generally cause problems and slow the process down. I have had a number of assessors kicked off claims owing to dubious practices. I would advise that you google a chap called Nigel Peregrine for his you tube advice relating to loss assessors.
Loss adjusters also earn bonus on fee income we generate, we generally get paid more for a higher settlement therefore it isn't in our interests to start to knock claims down as much as possible, we also want to get claims settled and off our desks as soon as possible.
It has been commented that insurers are much more customer focused nowadays, this is definitely the case now and treating the customer fairly is very much at the forefront of insurer culture.
I hope this gives you some comfort, please feel to message me as I know how daunting these situations can be. I would just say put your trust in the adjuster, we genuinely try to do our best by people.
Peter911 said:
The value of the house is irrelevant. It is the rebuilding cost that is important. I hope you were insured the full value.
I can pretty much guarantee that they will telling you that you were underinsured and they are only going to pay percentage of the claim (it is called averaging)
I had similar last year. Very distressing, it took 12 months at least to fight it via the insurance Ombudsman.
The insurers will try and ‘starve’ you into accepting a lesser settlement.
A loss adjuster won’t help IMO, so long as your are upfront and truthful and don’t try and claim for your fictitious items.
Good luck.
The sum insured needs to be in excess of the rebuild cost, the RICS website will have a calculator which can assist with this.I can pretty much guarantee that they will telling you that you were underinsured and they are only going to pay percentage of the claim (it is called averaging)
I had similar last year. Very distressing, it took 12 months at least to fight it via the insurance Ombudsman.
The insurers will try and ‘starve’ you into accepting a lesser settlement.
A loss adjuster won’t help IMO, so long as your are upfront and truthful and don’t try and claim for your fictitious items.
Good luck.
The policy will have an average clause which com
es I to play if the sums insured aren't adequate, this will reduce e the claim proportionately.
As for insurers trying to starve people into a lesser settlement, this is nonsense
As for insurers trying to starve someone into a lesser settlement this is utter nonsese
I worked for a largish social housing provider and over the years had to work with loss adjusters at a number of homes with different levels of fire (and other) damage.
On every occasion I went in before the loss adjusters, prepared a spec for works required, prepared a bill of quantities and had it priced by our contactors. On almost every occasion, the loss adjuster simply checked my documents against his own findings and rubber stamped our claim. In my experience, they are happy to have their work done for them and accept any reasonable and justifiable claim.
On every occasion I went in before the loss adjusters, prepared a spec for works required, prepared a bill of quantities and had it priced by our contactors. On almost every occasion, the loss adjuster simply checked my documents against his own findings and rubber stamped our claim. In my experience, they are happy to have their work done for them and accept any reasonable and justifiable claim.
Desiderata said:
I worked for a largish social housing provider and over the years had to work with loss adjusters at a number of homes with different levels of fire (and other) damage.
On every occasion I went in before the loss adjusters, prepared a spec for works required, prepared a bill of quantities and had it priced by our contactors. On almost every occasion, the loss adjuster simply checked my documents against his own findings and rubber stamped our claim. In my experience, they are happy to have their work done for them and accept any reasonable and justifiable claim.
Absolutely thisOn every occasion I went in before the loss adjusters, prepared a spec for works required, prepared a bill of quantities and had it priced by our contactors. On almost every occasion, the loss adjuster simply checked my documents against his own findings and rubber stamped our claim. In my experience, they are happy to have their work done for them and accept any reasonable and justifiable claim.
Onegoodleg said:
I'm a loss adjuster so hopefully I can help a bit with this?
Pah, what do you know? I work icing the buns at Greggs and my auntie had a house insurance claim so there's nothing you can tell me about this. You work for the insurer, you will screw everyone on the average clause, you want to kick out every claim and if you can't, you want to starve people into accepting 5% of what they are entitled to by delaying the claim as long as possible.
Don't come on here clouding the issue with facts, no one's interested.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Pah, what do you know? I work icing the buns at Greggs and my auntie had a house insurance claim so there's nothing you can tell me about this.
You work for the insurer, you will screw everyone on the average clause, you want to kick out every claim and if you can't, you want to starve people into accepting 5% of what they are entitled to by delaying the claim as long as possible.
Don't come on here clouding the issue with facts, no one's interested.
You work for the insurer, you will screw everyone on the average clause, you want to kick out every claim and if you can't, you want to starve people into accepting 5% of what they are entitled to by delaying the claim as long as possible.
Don't come on here clouding the issue with facts, no one's interested.
There is a bit of that on here right? Haha! Thankfully, we have a few industry experts as well
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Pah, what do you know? I work icing the buns at Greggs and my auntie had a house insurance claim so there's nothing you can tell me about this.
You work for the insurer, you will screw everyone on the average clause, you want to kick out every claim and if you can't, you want to starve people into accepting 5% of what they are entitled to by delaying the claim as long as possible.
Don't come on here clouding the issue with facts, no one's interested.
Well I ice buns in my own time and I have sampled many iced buns from as far afield as Morrisons to pound bakery so I am sure that I have plenty to tell you! You work for the insurer, you will screw everyone on the average clause, you want to kick out every claim and if you can't, you want to starve people into accepting 5% of what they are entitled to by delaying the claim as long as possible.
Don't come on here clouding the issue with facts, no one's interested.
As for the other stuff, you have clearly seen through my thin veil!
I used to work as a loss adjuster for a US based commercial property insurer and all we ever wanted to achieve was a fair settlement. We used to employ structural and/or quantity surveyors, cleaning contractors, forensic investigators and various other specialists as required which made life easier for the policyholder.
My experiences of loss assessors was that they just made the whole process more cumbersome and usually tried toinflate the claim as most were getting paid a fee by the policyholder that was a percentage of the settlement.
Why not meet the adjuster first - you should be able to tell if his approach is reasonable. If so you'll save yourself the assessors' fee!
My experiences of loss assessors was that they just made the whole process more cumbersome and usually tried toinflate the claim as most were getting paid a fee by the policyholder that was a percentage of the settlement.
Why not meet the adjuster first - you should be able to tell if his approach is reasonable. If so you'll save yourself the assessors' fee!
Our house was struck by lightning in 2000 so was a while ago. All possessions gone and house needed to be stripped back to bare brick, new roof etc.
Luckily, and quite rare for the time, contents cover was unlimited.
The insurance company loss adjuster was really good - agreed everything we wanted. He met my wife two days after on site, saw how down she was and wrote a cheque for £1000 - told her to spend it in whatever she wanted, no receipts needed.
He asked us to use their approved suppliers for certain things in the contents side but that wasn’t a problem as we got what we wanted. The building work was covered by a QS so got rebuilt to a detailed schedule. They even paid for a lightning conductor for the house because it really does strike twice in some scenarios!
My firm belief is that they know when someone is taking the mick - this was no oops, I spilled a tin of paint down the stairs so I need all the carpets in the house replaced moment.
Luckily, and quite rare for the time, contents cover was unlimited.
The insurance company loss adjuster was really good - agreed everything we wanted. He met my wife two days after on site, saw how down she was and wrote a cheque for £1000 - told her to spend it in whatever she wanted, no receipts needed.
He asked us to use their approved suppliers for certain things in the contents side but that wasn’t a problem as we got what we wanted. The building work was covered by a QS so got rebuilt to a detailed schedule. They even paid for a lightning conductor for the house because it really does strike twice in some scenarios!
My firm belief is that they know when someone is taking the mick - this was no oops, I spilled a tin of paint down the stairs so I need all the carpets in the house replaced moment.
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