Care home means test and assets
Discussion
Hi,
I wonder if anyone has experience of parents/relatives moving into car homes and treatments of assets?
My father died 10 years ago, leaving a large amount of cash to my mother. That cash has never been touched and still sits there today, as the house mortgage was paid off before his death, and my mother receives a very good pension that covers all her day to day costs.
In his will, my father bequeathed a quarter of the house to my brother and I, leaving half to my mother. Nothing, other than the will mentions the ownership of the half to my brother and I. No legal changes to any other paperwork.
The cash has been declared... but my question is, can the LA class that half as my mothers asset, or does the will prove ownership?
I wonder if anyone has experience of parents/relatives moving into car homes and treatments of assets?
My father died 10 years ago, leaving a large amount of cash to my mother. That cash has never been touched and still sits there today, as the house mortgage was paid off before his death, and my mother receives a very good pension that covers all her day to day costs.
In his will, my father bequeathed a quarter of the house to my brother and I, leaving half to my mother. Nothing, other than the will mentions the ownership of the half to my brother and I. No legal changes to any other paperwork.
The cash has been declared... but my question is, can the LA class that half as my mothers asset, or does the will prove ownership?
If your mother has cash in her name then it’s up to you to prove it isn’t legally hers, which sounds nigh on impossible in the case. This means you will be paying the care home costs in full until your mother’s cash/assets deplete to around £24k.
My mother has been paying £5k-£6k every four weeks for her care home for the last 2 and a bit years. I’ve worked out that her assets will fall below the Local Council threshold in December this year. In October I’m going to contacting the council to begin the assessment process.
At best she keeps 60% of her pension and the Council contribute the remainder to the care home. However, the council won’t pay the full amount so it requires the care home to accept a lower fee going forward which they have assured me they will do given my mother has paid the full amount for more than 2 years.
She has spent c.£140k of her money so far and will spend another £20k before she receives any support from the Council. Unfortunately if you have savings and require care then they take all your assets if you live long enough.
I note the new Labour government has decided to stop the legislation that was going to cap care home fees from 2025!
Either spend it while your can or gift it to families well before the potential need for care is on the horizon because once it is, any assets given away are likely to be claimed back before any Council will assist with payments.
Sorry I can’t provide you with any good news. This situation really is a s
t show for most.
My mother has been paying £5k-£6k every four weeks for her care home for the last 2 and a bit years. I’ve worked out that her assets will fall below the Local Council threshold in December this year. In October I’m going to contacting the council to begin the assessment process.
At best she keeps 60% of her pension and the Council contribute the remainder to the care home. However, the council won’t pay the full amount so it requires the care home to accept a lower fee going forward which they have assured me they will do given my mother has paid the full amount for more than 2 years.
She has spent c.£140k of her money so far and will spend another £20k before she receives any support from the Council. Unfortunately if you have savings and require care then they take all your assets if you live long enough.
I note the new Labour government has decided to stop the legislation that was going to cap care home fees from 2025!
Either spend it while your can or gift it to families well before the potential need for care is on the horizon because once it is, any assets given away are likely to be claimed back before any Council will assist with payments.
Sorry I can’t provide you with any good news. This situation really is a s
t show for most. chili1 said:
Hi,
I wonder if anyone has experience of parents/relatives moving into car homes and treatments of assets?
My father died 10 years ago, leaving a large amount of cash to my mother. That cash has never been touched and still sits there today, as the house mortgage was paid off before his death, and my mother receives a very good pension that covers all her day to day costs.
In his will, my father bequeathed a quarter of the house to my brother and I, leaving half to my mother. Nothing, other than the will mentions the ownership of the half to my brother and I. No legal changes to any other paperwork.
The cash has been declared... but my question is, can the LA class that half as my mothers asset, or does the will prove ownership?
The will shows that the 50% bequeathed to you and your brother does not belong to her. Her 50% share should be used in the calculations. In hindsight it would have been better to change the LR entry 10 years ago, no problems if you had.I wonder if anyone has experience of parents/relatives moving into car homes and treatments of assets?
My father died 10 years ago, leaving a large amount of cash to my mother. That cash has never been touched and still sits there today, as the house mortgage was paid off before his death, and my mother receives a very good pension that covers all her day to day costs.
In his will, my father bequeathed a quarter of the house to my brother and I, leaving half to my mother. Nothing, other than the will mentions the ownership of the half to my brother and I. No legal changes to any other paperwork.
The cash has been declared... but my question is, can the LA class that half as my mothers asset, or does the will prove ownership?
Great pity your father didn't previously transfer the house over to you and your brother or specify you and your brother inherited it in his will in both cases giving your mother a life interest to occupy subject to a nominal rent. Would possibly have resulted in some CGT liability if you subsequently sold yes but you would have avoided them claiming colossal care home fees against the house value which imo is totally unjust. Folks scrimp and save for years building up wealth and then see it disappear in a matter of months on huge care home fees whereas those who piss away any money they have over the years receive free care.
In the circumstances the LA will accept sight of the will proving your mother owns a half share in the house.
In the circumstances the LA will accept sight of the will proving your mother owns a half share in the house.
I have some personal experience of what you have described. The key point I have encountered is, was there a trust set up by your father setting out theses wishes ? Without the trust I fear the local authority will decide your mother's house and cash are all hers . The house in full.
The argument will be 10 years ago you and your brother did not take the value your were left and you do not charge your mother rent . I am assuming this part . I got a solicitor involved and I am not done yet but currently it's a flat no fro LA.
They have specialist lawyers who do this all day and we only have to do it once maybe twice .
The argument will be 10 years ago you and your brother did not take the value your were left and you do not charge your mother rent . I am assuming this part . I got a solicitor involved and I am not done yet but currently it's a flat no fro LA.
They have specialist lawyers who do this all day and we only have to do it once maybe twice .
The mere fact your mother lives in the house does not mean she owns it outright or 100% of it.
She owns only 50% of it as confirmed by your fathers will. The 50% should therefore be used for care home fees.
Same situation arose when my father passed my parents house was left jointly to me and my brothers equally and my mother had the right to stay in the house until her passing the LA ignored the house value when she went into care but they requested sight of my fathers will as proof which confirmed ownership.
She owns only 50% of it as confirmed by your fathers will. The 50% should therefore be used for care home fees.
Same situation arose when my father passed my parents house was left jointly to me and my brothers equally and my mother had the right to stay in the house until her passing the LA ignored the house value when she went into care but they requested sight of my fathers will as proof which confirmed ownership.
av185 said:
The mere fact your mother lives in the house does not mean she owns it outright or 100% of it.
She owns only 50% of it as confirmed by your fathers will. The 50% should therefore be used for care home fees.
Same situation arose when my father passed my parents house was left jointly to me and my brothers equally and my mother had the right to stay in the house until her passing the LA ignored the house value when she went into care but they requested sight of my fathers will as proof which confirmed ownership.
Were you the liable for CGT or IHT as there was no prior set up trust and seven years had not expired ?She owns only 50% of it as confirmed by your fathers will. The 50% should therefore be used for care home fees.
Same situation arose when my father passed my parents house was left jointly to me and my brothers equally and my mother had the right to stay in the house until her passing the LA ignored the house value when she went into care but they requested sight of my fathers will as proof which confirmed ownership.
Genuine question.
Was the house put in trust as part of the fathers will to ensure the ownership split as stated? I would suggest getting a copy of the land registry entry for £3 to see who owns the property.
If you prove the ownership is split then only her half of the house would be considered as her asset. If you work on the basis the council are a bunch of underhand theiving gits who will say almost anything to avoid paying themselves and act accordingly you can minimise the cost (losses).
If you search pistonheads someone linked to a useful guide book as this is a minefield for the unwary.
If you prove the ownership is split then only her half of the house would be considered as her asset. If you work on the basis the council are a bunch of underhand theiving gits who will say almost anything to avoid paying themselves and act accordingly you can minimise the cost (losses).
If you search pistonheads someone linked to a useful guide book as this is a minefield for the unwary.
OP states there is nothing apart from the will stating their 50% ownership of the house so presumably the deeds would state the house is still in their fathers/parents name.
Probable the LA is using this to their advantage in chasing the fees and wrongly ignoring the will.
Not that it matters as the will overrides this.
Probable the LA is using this to their advantage in chasing the fees and wrongly ignoring the will.
Not that it matters as the will overrides this.
Not having the house deeds altered accordingly at the time was a shame but not the end of the world as the LA will take the will into account.
They will obviously concentrate their efforts first and foremost on the money that your Mum has available.
When the form is completed as to her assets you just need to annotate as applicable as regards “ only “ 50% of the house value being hers.
If one of you is living with her at said house the LA cannot make her sell the house.
Trying to visibly reduce her funds now is too late as the LA will check this although you may get away with small gifts etc being made in accordance with what HMRC “ allow “.
They will obviously concentrate their efforts first and foremost on the money that your Mum has available.
When the form is completed as to her assets you just need to annotate as applicable as regards “ only “ 50% of the house value being hers.
If one of you is living with her at said house the LA cannot make her sell the house.
Trying to visibly reduce her funds now is too late as the LA will check this although you may get away with small gifts etc being made in accordance with what HMRC “ allow “.
Thanks for all the responses, much appreciated. It was an old school will done with a solicitor, rather than an online jobby, so I'm assuming that it's all above board re law and la. Unfortunately, I wasn't involved in the process and am relying on the word of my father at the time it was done, and my mothers recollection (which is vague at best). There's also 50k for each of the grandchildren mentioned in the will as well. So that should be excluded from the asset pot.
chili1 said:
Thanks for all the responses, much appreciated. It was an old school will done with a solicitor, rather than an online jobby, so I'm assuming that it's all above board re law and la. Unfortunately, I wasn't involved in the process and am relying on the word of my father at the time it was done, and my mothers recollection (which is vague at best). There's also 50k for each of the grandchildren mentioned in the will as well. So that should be excluded from the asset pot.
Do you actually have a copy of your father's Will, as it's not entirely clear from your posts?If probate has been granted the will is in the public record. The executor really should have distributed the money and updated the Land Registry entry according to the terms of the will and their failure to do this has landed you in the current predicament.
If probate wasn't applied for you need to find and secure that will asap.
If probate wasn't applied for you need to find and secure that will asap.
Thanks.
To answer the questions:
I'm in the process of obtaining a copy of the will.
My mother was the executor.
50k for each of the 4 grandchildren was supposed be put into trusts until they were 21. I believe the 200k has been left in the general pot my father left behind.
This is going to get messy!!
To answer the questions:
I'm in the process of obtaining a copy of the will.
My mother was the executor.
50k for each of the 4 grandchildren was supposed be put into trusts until they were 21. I believe the 200k has been left in the general pot my father left behind.
This is going to get messy!!
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