"Have you ever had insurance cancelled..."

[LR90]

Okay, a bit of a random one.

My dog's pet insurance was up for renewal, and I got the renewal quote through. It was pretty high, so I did a price comparison and found the same cover with the same provider through uSwitch for £100 less. I bought this and, as I paid for the old policy via credit card with no auto-renewal set up, I let the old policy lapse.

They've just sent through a letter saying my old policy has been cancelled, which, as I haven't paid to renew and the original one-year term is now over, makes perfect sense.

HOWEVER, does this mean I now have to answer yes when buying car or home insurance to the question "Have you ever had insurance cancelled... etc.".

I think not, but I wanted to check if anyone on here knows better.

[TR4man]

I think that you may be overthinking this.

[snuffy]

It's deja vu all over again.

The answer is no.

[alscar]

You haven't cancelled your policy simply non renewed it.
As such the answer going forward on any Dog Insurance questions would be No.
There is no cut through to any other type of Insurance policy such as Car or House but still No.
If you really bored and want further reassurance then go back to your Dog Insurer and request they revise the wording to say you simply didn't renew your existing policy per se and delete any mention of cancellation.

[LR90]

Thanks all, I thought this was almost certainly the case.

I always think the wording of "Have you ever had insurance cancelled" is almost wilfully vague.

Surely this applies to almost everyone? For example, if you sold a car and cancelled the policy, it's still them doing the cancelling rather than you, even if you've asked them to do it. So technically, you're lying if you say you haven't had insurance cancelled when taking out a future policy.

I know this is not what they're asking, but technically it's true. It just seems mad that the wording is so non-specific given its legal importance.

Side question: if you did have insurance cancelled 'legitimately' (due to fraud, non payment etc.) would a future insurer flag this at the point you attempted to take a policy out?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

LR90 said:

HOWEVER, does this mean I now have to answer yes when buying car or home insurance to the question "Have you ever had insurance cancelled... etc.".

Aside from the facts that your pet insurance hasn't been cancelled, when your car insurance asks if you've had any accidents or claims, do you have to say "yes, my cat got it's tail caught in the front door and I made a pet insurance claim".

[alscar]

LR90 said:

Thanks all, I thought this was almost certainly the case.

I always think the wording of "Have you ever had insurance cancelled" is almost wilfully vague.

Not really.

Surely this applies to almost everyone? For example, if you sold a car and cancelled the policy, it's still them doing the cancelling rather than you, even if you've asked them to do it. So technically, you're lying if you say you haven't had insurance cancelled when taking out a future policy.

But in that example the “ cancellation “ has been requested by you and the Insurer is simply acting on your instructions so technically or otherwise you are not lying when you say no.
Insurers only usually cancel a policy should they find that you lied about something material or gave them false information when you took out the policy or haven’t paid your premium due or something similar.
Even if this happens as in the case of false information they still would need to show that has they been given the real facts it was part of their underwriting strategy not to ever cover said individual / car so potentially more likely they would charge an additional premium instead.


I know this is not what they're asking, but technically it's true. It just seems mad that the wording is so non-specific given its legal importance.

It might seem that way to you but the Industry as a whole seems happy enough with the wording - not saying that’s right of course !

Side question: if you did have insurance cancelled 'legitimately' (due to fraud, non payment etc.) would a future insurer flag this at the point you attempted to take a policy out?

Depends on the type of policy and whether information is shared - I would guess it’s not possible on Pet Insurance but don’t know about other classes.
However the problem is more likely to be that you have an incident , make a claim and then the Insurer cancels ( or tries to as above ) because they then find out you weren’t honest with them.

[mmm-five]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Aside from the facts that your pet insurance hasn't been cancelled, when your car insurance asks if you've had any accidents or claims, do you have to say "yes, my cat got it's tail caught in the front door and I made a pet insurance claim".

Does your car have any modifications?

• does this mean aftermarket mods, optional extras fitted as part of the new car purchase, optional extras fitted afterwards, wrap, PPF, stickers, different brand tyres, different air freshener, sat-nat, hands-free kit, dash-cam?

Have you had any accidents or claims?

• did you make a claim on your policy; or was a claim on a policy where you are a named driver; or did you make a claim on a policy where you are a named driver?

Have you had any accidents or claims?

• does a motorbike accident count; or a quadricycle accident; or bicycle accident; or damage to a hire car; or damage to a car/barrier on a track only policy; or scraping an alloy avoiding a ball/bird/kid?

Of course the normal mantra of "if in doubt, declare everything" is fine where the online forms allow for everything to be declared (or you have to spend hours calling up individual insurers/brokers to explain your specific circumstances - where they'll think you're a nutter and tell you not to be stupid).

It's all well and good being an industry expert and knowing exactly where these lines are drawn and being able to interpret the phrasing, but what about a normal punter?



...and if the smileys didn't make it clear, yes I am taking the piss

[JagLad]

alscar said:

You haven't cancelled your policy simply non renewed it.

I've had this discussion with a couple of people in the insurance industry.

I'm only talking about motor policies but apparently it is now common practice for insurers to automatically renew policies unless the policyholder positively informs them that they do not wish to renew. Then, after a month or so, if payment has not been secured they cancel the policy.

My debate took place on another forum where a couple of motor insurance experts contribute. What had happened was that a policyholder had a policy which he paid annually and which auto-renewed. The policyholder saw a renewal notice on his online portal and, being happy to go ahead (and forgetting he had changed banks) simply left it to renew. The renewal date came and went but because the bank details the insurers held were no longer valid, the payment failed.

The next correspondence he had was a letter from the insurers saying his policy had been cancelled as they had been unable to collect payment. As soon as he received this (and realising his error with his banking) he contacted his insurer. They said they had sent reminders (which subsequently turned out to be untrue, but that isn't really an issue); that they could not reinstate the old policy and that he would have to set up a new one. Most importantly it meant he had a "cancelled" policy on his record which he would have to declare for life.

The insurance bods confirmed this was the usual practice. I took a slightly different view, suggesting that as his policy had expired and no payment was received, it could not have been renewed to cancel. The response I got was this:

[i]You may have a different view but it's not correct, non-payment does not equal cancellation by the policy holder any more than if you got to payday and suddenly found you hadn't been paid and when you asked your boss he tells you he fired you last month but didnt tell you however it should be obvious because you aren't being paid.

The policy renews first, inline with the renewal notification, and payment is then attempted. Failure of that payment will trigger the non-payment process and in the meantime the person is still insured. Given thousands of payments fail every day that would be a lot of uninsured drivers out there if they took your route of assuming it meant cover wasn't wanted despite having no communication to that effect. The OP is over a month later and only now found out, that'd been a fair few penalty points plus some costly claims if they'd been unfortunate to have been in an accident in that period.[/i]

The plot thickened a lot more than this because it transpired that the insurer had made a balls up and the renewal notice he was looking at was not that year's at all, but a previous year. He is now in official dispute with the insurers and has raised a case with the Ombudsman. However, even without that balls up, he was left at a considerable disadvantage: the insurer would not shift and he had a cancelled policy on his record.

This chap had simply committed an administrative oversight (the bank details the insurers held were no longer valid). He had not withheld details of convictions; he had not failed to disclose modifications to his car or done anything else which would otherwise warrant the cancellation of his policy. He simply forgot to inform his insurers that his bank details had changed.

None of this would really matter if it was, say, a magazine subscription; one cancelled in this manner would cause no great harm. But the cancellation of an insurance policy - particularly a motor policy - has a profound effect. Unlike a driving conviction, which is time bound by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, a cancellation, which insurers consider a justification to increase premiums, must be declared forever. The result of this can be very expensive for a driver.

Edited by JagLad on Monday 19th August 16:54

Edited by JagLad on Monday 19th August 16:56

Edited by JagLad on Monday 19th August 16:59

Edited by JagLad on Monday 19th August 17:01

[alscar]

JL , that’s interesting and I’ve always thought Auto renewals work to the benefit of the Insurer far more rather than the consumer despite what they may say.
That said and given your example I would still suggest that is not a cancellation for non payment as what should have happened is that the Insurer should have made it clear that the bank card ending xxxx would be charged and if still no contact from the insured another chase up detailing why said payment hadn’t gone through and at that stage in effect “ threatening “ cancellation abinitio ie as though the renewal had never existed.
I honestly would have thought at that stage a communique to their complaints dept would possibly have seen agreement with the insured.
The other point on declaration forever is also not strictly correct as it can depend very much on which Insurer is asking - many seem quite happy with “ just “ the last 5 years but I accept this may be difficult to convey on a comparison site.
Whilst I have never personally been involved in personal UK insurance, I was for many decades a senior underwriter for a specialist Syndicate and was also on the management board.
Compliance and Claims depts were dealt with virtually daily and this was exactly the type of debate that was often held at senior management level.
TCF guidelines for this type of debate would almost always dictate to come down on the side of the insured.
Maybe UK motor Insurers think they are too big to worry about it though.