Recovering cash from tradesman
Discussion
Now I know that I shouldn’t have, but I did. The horse has bolted, stable door left flapping in the wind. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I’d had a plumber round to do a couple of small jobs. He’d been on time and reasonably priced. Nothing leaked. Thought I’d found a winner.
Our ageing built in shower leaked. I’d tried fixing it with a new cartridge, but it’s too far gone. Got the plumber round who reckoned on quite a big job including tiles coming off.
As I’d just had a small amount of money, an insurance/pension company found me after my dad passed away almost 20years ago, I suggested we get the whole bathroom redone. Asked him for a quote. Happy with the figure, agreed to get him to do it.
Sole trader, so asked me to send him the money to buy the fixtures, fittings etc.
Transferred him north of £5k in February. Half the money I’d got off my dad.
Nothing happened for some time. Finally got a date to start work middle of April. Messaged a couple of days before saying he was ill and couldn’t start work. Required hospital treatment but nothing life threatening.
Gave him room, didn’t want to cause him more stress while poorly, but started to get a bit twitchy as he wasn’t responding to any messages when I tried to check in with him.
Finally got an answer in June. I suggested I come round to his lock up where he said he would be keeping the materials so we could have a chat and we could have a look at what we’d ordered as we’d almost forgotten what we were supposed to be getting. Breezed past that suggestion and came round the house instead.
Apologised for not keeping in touch, said as soon as he was back up and running, we would be his priority. Had been back to work but wasn’t at full capacity, still had three weeks worth of treatment.
Agreed to wait for him.
Three weeks came and went. Messaged him to see how he was doing on the Friday. Got back to me saying he was planning to start work at ours on the Monday. Not a lot of notice, but I said great, see you then. This was middle of July.
Messaged on the Monday saying he was caught up with another job which was bigger than expected. Would definitely be with us that week though.
End of week, no further contact. Tried to call, no answer. Messaged asking him to get in touch as we needed to discuss where we were going. Further radio silence.
Two weeks ago, I sent one last message saying I couldn’t wait any longer, the only way out of this was for him to give me my money back in the next 14 days before I took action to recover my cash.
Here we are.
Putting aside that I should have known better and not sent money up front, I realise I’m not the super judge of character I thought I was, what’s the best way to recover my money?
My bathroom still needs doing, the shower is still leaking and I can’t afford to write off over £5000.
TLDR - How do I get my money back off a sole trader?
I’d had a plumber round to do a couple of small jobs. He’d been on time and reasonably priced. Nothing leaked. Thought I’d found a winner.
Our ageing built in shower leaked. I’d tried fixing it with a new cartridge, but it’s too far gone. Got the plumber round who reckoned on quite a big job including tiles coming off.
As I’d just had a small amount of money, an insurance/pension company found me after my dad passed away almost 20years ago, I suggested we get the whole bathroom redone. Asked him for a quote. Happy with the figure, agreed to get him to do it.
Sole trader, so asked me to send him the money to buy the fixtures, fittings etc.
Transferred him north of £5k in February. Half the money I’d got off my dad.
Nothing happened for some time. Finally got a date to start work middle of April. Messaged a couple of days before saying he was ill and couldn’t start work. Required hospital treatment but nothing life threatening.
Gave him room, didn’t want to cause him more stress while poorly, but started to get a bit twitchy as he wasn’t responding to any messages when I tried to check in with him.
Finally got an answer in June. I suggested I come round to his lock up where he said he would be keeping the materials so we could have a chat and we could have a look at what we’d ordered as we’d almost forgotten what we were supposed to be getting. Breezed past that suggestion and came round the house instead.
Apologised for not keeping in touch, said as soon as he was back up and running, we would be his priority. Had been back to work but wasn’t at full capacity, still had three weeks worth of treatment.
Agreed to wait for him.
Three weeks came and went. Messaged him to see how he was doing on the Friday. Got back to me saying he was planning to start work at ours on the Monday. Not a lot of notice, but I said great, see you then. This was middle of July.
Messaged on the Monday saying he was caught up with another job which was bigger than expected. Would definitely be with us that week though.
End of week, no further contact. Tried to call, no answer. Messaged asking him to get in touch as we needed to discuss where we were going. Further radio silence.
Two weeks ago, I sent one last message saying I couldn’t wait any longer, the only way out of this was for him to give me my money back in the next 14 days before I took action to recover my cash.
Here we are.
Putting aside that I should have known better and not sent money up front, I realise I’m not the super judge of character I thought I was, what’s the best way to recover my money?
My bathroom still needs doing, the shower is still leaking and I can’t afford to write off over £5000.
TLDR - How do I get my money back off a sole trader?
Catch him at his lock up face to face and take his tools and any stock of value .
This sounds harsh and is probably illegal but I’ve done it a couple of times as have a couple of friends , you’ll still probably be out of pocket but there’s a small possibility he’ll come up with your money , probably someone else’s deposit .
I ended up with a load of second hand slates , luckily I could use them , and a knackered series 3 Land Rover that I neither needed or wanted but I got something back for it eventually.
These guys can’t help themselves , a lot of them don’t even do it on purpose, they just dig a hole and never stop unti someone sorts it out for them .
And I’m saying this from being in the trade and employing other trades , not an irate one time customer.
This sounds harsh and is probably illegal but I’ve done it a couple of times as have a couple of friends , you’ll still probably be out of pocket but there’s a small possibility he’ll come up with your money , probably someone else’s deposit .
I ended up with a load of second hand slates , luckily I could use them , and a knackered series 3 Land Rover that I neither needed or wanted but I got something back for it eventually.
These guys can’t help themselves , a lot of them don’t even do it on purpose, they just dig a hole and never stop unti someone sorts it out for them .
And I’m saying this from being in the trade and employing other trades , not an irate one time customer.
You’ve learned your lesson but just incase someone else see your thread for god sake don’t pay up front any trade at all FULL STOP. If they need it upfront they need your money more than you.
I suppose the best thing is to keep trying contact for a little bit and see if you can work out a payment plan or something. Try and keep it friendly like. After that the courts etc. such a shame people like that exist.
I suppose the best thing is to keep trying contact for a little bit and see if you can work out a payment plan or something. Try and keep it friendly like. After that the courts etc. such a shame people like that exist.
Mad Maximus said:
You’ve learned your lesson but just incase someone else see your thread for god sake don’t pay up front any trade at all FULL STOP. If they need it upfront they need your money more than you.
I suppose the best thing is to keep trying contact for a little bit and see if you can work out a payment plan or something. Try and keep it friendly like. After that the courts etc. such a shame people like that exist.
Exactly this-my stepson operates like this-he is an absolute sI suppose the best thing is to keep trying contact for a little bit and see if you can work out a payment plan or something. Try and keep it friendly like. After that the courts etc. such a shame people like that exist.
t bag and his mother and I don’t have anything to do with him anymore.the only thing he would understand is a proper good hiding.sorry OP but if I was you I’d write the money off and or go and beat the s
t out of the conman that has your five grand..I never took money up front in all the years I ran a roofing business , the exact opposite to be honest , I’d fund the whole job from start to finish and send the bill in and fully expect to wait a month for payment , anything sooner was a bonus .
There’s 2 distinct types of tradesman though , ones like me will do as many jobs as possible a reap the benefits , the amount of younger guys I see now who start late , finish early and expect a days money for it is unbelievable.
Back in the day we used to start at 5am on flat roofs to beat the heat , we were finished by midday , I’d ask the lads if they wanted to go home or do some small repairs , mostly they went home , or to the pub , but one always stayed and made a bit more money , I’m here and I’m awake I may as well get paid extra .
I’ve kept in touch with a few of them and they are mostly bar flys working for a days wages to drink , except 1 , who now employs some of those same lads on daily basis and still is hands on , difference is he turns up to work with them in a Range Rover and leaves on an evening to go to a nice house .
There’s 2 distinct types of tradesman though , ones like me will do as many jobs as possible a reap the benefits , the amount of younger guys I see now who start late , finish early and expect a days money for it is unbelievable.
Back in the day we used to start at 5am on flat roofs to beat the heat , we were finished by midday , I’d ask the lads if they wanted to go home or do some small repairs , mostly they went home , or to the pub , but one always stayed and made a bit more money , I’m here and I’m awake I may as well get paid extra .
I’ve kept in touch with a few of them and they are mostly bar flys working for a days wages to drink , except 1 , who now employs some of those same lads on daily basis and still is hands on , difference is he turns up to work with them in a Range Rover and leaves on an evening to go to a nice house .
I feel for you OP. I did the same but slightly different (not 5k up front- alot less) Plumber seemed OK, sole trader. He said he had a friend who was a tiler. Tiler went off work longterm sick. Plumber admitted he was getting in more lucrative/other projects that were planned he had to start - so after a lot of pressure he ended up starting but literally doing an hour or two hours a day.
Eventually 70% complete I put any further to bed and told him no more. So I imagine even if you do 'see' him start the work no doubt he'll be a nightmare as he's already absorbed the 5k so will resent you/having to work.
The issue is a lot of sole traders have poor money management skills. They spend what they earn.
He's already no doubt used the 5k (and the materials on other jobs in bits and pieces here and there) to live on, expenses etc so in his mind he sees your bathroom as at his time and expense. If that makes sense?
Bizarre but that's the view I got of sole traders and the hideaway mentality.
That's why alot like to get in/get it done. I know one like that, a very good bloke- turns up does it fast and gets annoyed if you aren't in ready.
If he's a sole trader you'll need his full details for any action. He'll have money coming in - he'll be working still just hoping those that he has taken money off go away.
Good luck
Eventually 70% complete I put any further to bed and told him no more. So I imagine even if you do 'see' him start the work no doubt he'll be a nightmare as he's already absorbed the 5k so will resent you/having to work.
The issue is a lot of sole traders have poor money management skills. They spend what they earn.
He's already no doubt used the 5k (and the materials on other jobs in bits and pieces here and there) to live on, expenses etc so in his mind he sees your bathroom as at his time and expense. If that makes sense?
Bizarre but that's the view I got of sole traders and the hideaway mentality.
That's why alot like to get in/get it done. I know one like that, a very good bloke- turns up does it fast and gets annoyed if you aren't in ready.
If he's a sole trader you'll need his full details for any action. He'll have money coming in - he'll be working still just hoping those that he has taken money off go away.
Good luck
I run contracts for clients for a living. They can be anything from 20k to 500k.
On the larger ones I tend to use firms I know and they are very professional but on the smaller ones I often get contractors I don’t know pushed onto me for various reasons. I never, ever agree to anything with money up front. If the contractor can’t afford to buy materials then probably he’s not a very good contractor and isn’t worth dealing with. If he can’t run his business in a way which avoids living hand to mouth then that’s a good indication of how he will run whatever building job you may be wanting done.
And always have some sort of written contract.
OP I would just go the court claim route, seems like your only choice.
On the larger ones I tend to use firms I know and they are very professional but on the smaller ones I often get contractors I don’t know pushed onto me for various reasons. I never, ever agree to anything with money up front. If the contractor can’t afford to buy materials then probably he’s not a very good contractor and isn’t worth dealing with. If he can’t run his business in a way which avoids living hand to mouth then that’s a good indication of how he will run whatever building job you may be wanting done.
And always have some sort of written contract.
OP I would just go the court claim route, seems like your only choice.
You'll need to prove there was a contract (piece of paper not essential, conduct can be sufficient dependent on circs), that the money was for work/goods under it and the plumber is in breach.
Small claims is pretty pragmatic and understanding civil standard of proof, 'more likely than not' balance of probabilities.
Give plenty of warning and follow the pre-action protocol (Google it) if you can. Then money claim online and follow the procedures. Deadlines are mandatory. Always remember that. All service should be by post (not email) unless agreed in writing otherwise beforehand.
Small claims is pretty pragmatic and understanding civil standard of proof, 'more likely than not' balance of probabilities.
Give plenty of warning and follow the pre-action protocol (Google it) if you can. Then money claim online and follow the procedures. Deadlines are mandatory. Always remember that. All service should be by post (not email) unless agreed in writing otherwise beforehand.
It’s trust on both sides, customer trusting you to do the job and us trusting we will get paid. Unfortunately you hear quite a lot of trades not being paid. Labour costs are bad enough to lose but if you’ve paid out for materials that money is physical money you’ve lost.
Difficult on both sides.
Difficult on both sides.
and31 said:
Mad Maximus said:
You’ve learned your lesson but just incase someone else see your thread for god sake don’t pay up front any trade at all FULL STOP. If they need it upfront they need your money more than you.
I suppose the best thing is to keep trying contact for a little bit and see if you can work out a payment plan or something. Try and keep it friendly like. After that the courts etc. such a shame people like that exist.
Exactly this-my stepson operates like this-he is an absolute sI suppose the best thing is to keep trying contact for a little bit and see if you can work out a payment plan or something. Try and keep it friendly like. After that the courts etc. such a shame people like that exist.
t bag and his mother and I don’t have anything to do with him anymore.the only thing he would understand is a proper good hiding.sorry OP but if I was you I’d write the money off and or go and beat the s
t out of the conman that has your five grand..Glassman said:
In some cases it's necessary. I will not 'special' order a set of 'clear' windows for a privacy glass delete job without a part payment (usually 50% proforma).
Oo no I don't like that. No I don't want them, you told me it would look OK didnt you? Give them to someone else 
Hugo Stiglitz said:
Glassman said:
In some cases it's necessary. I will not 'special' order a set of 'clear' windows for a privacy glass delete job without a part payment (usually 50% proforma).
Oo no I don't like that. No I don't want them, you told me it would look OK didnt you? Give them to someone else Geffg said:
It’s trust on both sides, customer trusting you to do the job and us trusting we will get paid. Unfortunately you hear quite a lot of trades not being paid. Labour costs are bad enough to lose but if you’ve paid out for materials that money is physical money you’ve lost.
Difficult on both sides.
This sums it up perfectly,Difficult on both sides.
Paying for the job in stages is fair on both sides.
SCC OP. I assume everything is recorded on your messages. Take screen shots and should be enough.
We had central heating installed and used new sole trader. He explained situation said he needed us to buy the parts beforehand. Sent an order though and we paid and had it delivered to our house.
Safe ish with an honest trader
We had central heating installed and used new sole trader. He explained situation said he needed us to buy the parts beforehand. Sent an order though and we paid and had it delivered to our house.
Safe ish with an honest trader
zedstar said:
MCOL them everytime.
As soon as they can't get credit on their next van or get a remortgage they might think twice about stealing.
Report them to the police too. They won't care obviously as everythings a civil matter but at least it'll build up a record.
This is the best approach for sure. I had a similar issue and had some kind of order placed on his van so he couldn't sell it etc. Also report to trading standards as I know a trader who was eventually given a prison sentence for doing exactly this. I bet you wont be the only customer he's tried to rip off. As soon as they can't get credit on their next van or get a remortgage they might think twice about stealing.
Report them to the police too. They won't care obviously as everythings a civil matter but at least it'll build up a record.
More than likely gave your money to somebody else he owed, or had a nice holiday with it and now cant raise funds to by the materials.
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