Law on fitting sideways bench seats in 2014 Defender? Belts?

[Le Gavroche]

Hi,

I have a 2014 Defender and would like to retrofit rear sideways bench seats for occasional use on short journeys.

From reading a few threads on Land Rover forums, the opinion seems to be that the bench seats are a total doddle to fit by a DIY'er, but they go on to say "Don't bother fitting the seats belts as they are a pain in the backside to fit and they aren't legally required for bench seats"

I also found a few strange comments about "Have a word with your friendly MOT tester before you fit them" but no one seems to have expanded on what they mean by that.

I would trust PH over other forums for legal advice, so if anyone can advise on the legality of retrofitted rear bench seats, and whether to fit seatbelts or not.

Photo from google on the type of seats I would be looking at fitting:

[CharlesElliott]

See MOT Manual:

Fitment
Seat belts are not needed for:

seats that are only used when the vehicle is stationary, such as a sofa in the living area of a motor caravan
side facing seats
occasional seats that fold down when not in use
For further information see the tables in Appendix C to determine which seats need a seat belt.

[Le Gavroche]

CharlesElliott said:

See MOT Manual:

Fitment
Seat belts are not needed for:

seats that are only used when the vehicle is stationary, such as a sofa in the living area of a motor caravan
side facing seats
occasional seats that fold down when not in use
For further information see the tables in Appendix C to determine which seats need a seat belt.

Thanks for that.

So fold up seats don't need seat belts, irrespective of the year of the vehicle and irrespective of them being retrofitted?

[Le Gavroche]

Other questions have now come into mind:

If the seats are 'occasional use' and fold up:

Do I have to inform the DVLA that the number of seats in the vehicle has changed? (I would assume not)

Would I have to inform the insurer that there are now fold up seats in the rear?

Is there any laws on who can sit in rear bench seats (Children/age etc)?

[CharlesElliott]

It says that side facing seats don't need belts regardless of whether they fold or not.

[mac96]

I reckon you should tell insurers. It is a modification which probably increases risk (more passengers and less well protected from injury).
In factI would ask before doing it in case they refuse to cover the modification.

[andyalan10]

Well this, on gov.uk seems to say a legal child restraint can't be fitted to sideways seats, and a child can't be carried without a legal restraint, so no under 12s by the look of it...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/convert...

[WhiskyDisco]

I did my reserve on this before renovating my 110. The law states that child seats are not to be fitted on bench seats, and that lap belts are optional. Experts state that they can cause more harm than good anyway.

Adrian Flux asked how many seats there were before I fitted them, and it made no difference to the premium.

I informed DVLA by return of V5 to move from 2 to 8 seater. No problem.

The gold plated option for accomodating passengers is the later style forward facing seats, but with my pick up style it wouldn't have worked, as there isn't the height.

[alscar]

This does seem a bit of a grey area.
We looked into this when buying our first Defender and from various searches it still wasn't conclusive as you are finding out !
Its also worth mentioning that even if you go ahead and fit those lap-belts , my previous research had also intimated that in the event of an accident they could actually do more harm than good depending on the type of accident.
If I'm honest this was what decided it for me -we bought a CSW instead with the 4 individual rear seats and belts but only had adult passengers ever use it and that was only very occasional.

[WhiskyDisco]

A word of warning. The cheap seats you can buy online are pretty rubbish. The backs bend and they quickly rust.

I would like some quality galvanised products but haven't found any yet.

You can get lap belts for around £15 on eBay. I have mine fitted, but they are hardly ever used.

[alscar]

mac96 said:

I reckon you should tell insurers. It is a modification which probably increases risk (more passengers and less well protected from injury).
In factI would ask before doing it in case they refuse to cover the modification.

Would 100% agree with this advice too.

[Le Gavroche]

andyalan10 said:

Well this, on gov.uk seems to say a legal child restraint can't be fitted to sideways seats, and a child can't be carried without a legal restraint, so no under 12s by the look of it...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/convert...

Thanks for that.

I wouldn't want to put any children in the sideways seats anyway, unless it was just 100 yards down the road or something, but it's good to know the law.

WhiskyDisco said:

A word of warning. The cheap seats you can buy online are pretty rubbish. The backs bend and they quickly rust.

I would like some quality galvanised products but haven't found any yet.

You can get lap belts for around £15 on eBay. I have mine fitted, but they are hardly ever used.

Just for clarity, the seats will be fitted in a hard top like the picture in my post, not a pickup. Are you saying that they still rust even when not getting wet? If so, that doesn't sound great.

I was looking at the fold up kits that are about £200 per side, similar to this:

https://www.exmoortrim.co.uk/seating/defender-load...

I wouldn't want the lap belts. My understanding is, and others in this thread have confirmed, that they often cause more harm than good in a crash. Also, if you fit belts, they must be fitted in a specific way and will be examined by the MOT tester. If you have no belts, then there is nothing to check and things are easier.

[5lab]

andyalan10 said:

Well this, on gov.uk seems to say a legal child restraint can't be fitted to sideways seats, and a child can't be carried without a legal restraint, so no under 12s by the look of it...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/convert...

Agreed that document states that, however the 12 year old thing is "12 or 135cm whichever comes first" - my 7 year old is 135cm so could legally travel just fine in a sideways seat.

I wouldn't do it for more than a couple hundred yards either, just clarifying the law

[Decky_Q]

My much older brother had a defender with the benches down both sides. As kids we loved being in the back, went to a safari park 11 up which was one of the best days out I remember.