Pre Nup - Cost

Author
Discussion

bad company

Original Poster:

19,466 posts

273 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
Mrs BC and I have been together for over 30 years. We’re not into getting married but starting to think about inheritance tax it looks like we have to.

We really should do a pre nup. Has anyone here any experience of the likely costs and implications?

Bill

54,203 posts

262 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
Seriously? What value do you think it'll have after 30 years together?

TownIdiot

1,563 posts

6 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
If you and your partner are in complete agreement it should be pretty straightforward.

Find a firm specialising in family law, give them the asset allocation and ask them to draw up a pre-nup. Then find another firm to advise one of the parties separately. It shouldn't be that expensive, unless there are complications with the assets.


If there isn't complete agreement then it could get complicated and expensive.

bad company

Original Poster:

19,466 posts

273 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
Bill said:
Seriously? What value do you think it'll have after 30 years together?
I didn’t think that’d make much difference. We’ve always kept our finances separately.

Bill

54,203 posts

262 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
bad company said:
I didn’t think that’d make much difference. We’ve always kept our finances separately.
AIUI prenups are rarely worth the paper they're written on at the best of times, after 30 years together there's a pretty easy argument that whoever's done better financially was supported in that by the other so has earned a share.

bad company

Original Poster:

19,466 posts

273 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
Bill said:
bad company said:
I didn’t think that’d make much difference. We’ve always kept our finances separately.
AIUI prenups are rarely worth the paper they're written on at the best of times, after 30 years together there's a pretty easy argument that whoever's done better financially was supported in that by the other so has earned a share.
I earned and invested a lot of money and owned my home & business outright before we met. We’ve moved but I still own the house outright, there’s very few joint assets. I sold the business 12 years ago.

TownIdiot

1,563 posts

6 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
If your wife to be is happy to enter into the agreement and receives sound independent advice then the agreement will carry some weight.

Circumstances can change though.

MustangGT

12,268 posts

287 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
TownIdiot said:
If your wife to be is happy to enter into the agreement and receives sound independent advice then the agreement will carry some weight.

Circumstances can change though.
Being your user name again?

OP is not married, a Pre-Nup is for before marriage in any case.

TownIdiot

1,563 posts

6 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
MustangGT said:
Being your user name again?

OP is not married, a Pre-Nup is for before marriage in any case.
Which is why I called her his wife to be.

I suppose I could have put wife-to-be, to help people with their comprehension.

0ddball

879 posts

146 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
MustangGT said:
TownIdiot said:
If your wife to be is happy to enter into the agreement and receives sound independent advice then the agreement will carry some weight.

Circumstances can change though.
Being your user name again?

OP is not married, a Pre-Nup is for before marriage in any case.
If you're going to try to be a smart arse, at least be right laugh

megaphone

10,933 posts

258 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
You've been together for 30 years , you're finally getting married, but you're worried about a divorce? Strange.

MustangGT

12,268 posts

287 months

Wednesday 7th August
quotequote all
0ddball said:
MustangGT said:
TownIdiot said:
If your wife to be is happy to enter into the agreement and receives sound independent advice then the agreement will carry some weight.

Circumstances can change though.
Being your user name again?

OP is not married, a Pre-Nup is for before marriage in any case.
If you're going to try to be a smart arse, at least be right laugh
Okay, note to self, must try harder, obviously not a natural smart-arse.

Jeremy-75qq8

1,183 posts

99 months

Wednesday 7th August
quotequote all
If you divorce they determine the length of the marriage.

This includes the time together pre marriage. So in this case marry , divorce the following day it will be a long marriage.

The pre nup has some weight but the longer the marriage the less weight it gives.

They also usually expire on having children ( not likely in this case )

The issue is how much money is involved.

I had one and my ex wife raised an obscure challenge. The lawyers said this was " legally interesting" as such a challenge had not been made on a pre nup before.

They then quoted the cost to defend assuming she took it all the way. I won't mention the sum as I will likely get a load of abuse if I did - however it was life changing money.

The op has sold a business ( as have I ) so if the sums are decent find a decent firm and give them a very hard time challenging them as to what if , what if , what if.

They can't give gtees but you do need to know its practical worth.

bad company

Original Poster:

19,466 posts

273 months

Wednesday 7th August
quotequote all
Jeremy-75qq8 said:
If you divorce they determine the length of the marriage.

This includes the time together pre marriage. So in this case marry , divorce the following day it will be a long marriage.

The pre nup has some weight but the longer the marriage the less weight it gives.

They also usually expire on having children ( not likely in this case )

The issue is how much money is involved.

I had one and my ex wife raised an obscure challenge. The lawyers said this was " legally interesting" as such a challenge had not been made on a pre nup before.

They then quoted the cost to defend assuming she took it all the way. I won't mention the sum as I will likely get a load of abuse if I did - however it was life changing money.

The op has sold a business ( as have I ) so if the sums are decent find a decent firm and give them a very hard time challenging them as to what if , what if , what if.

They can't give gtees but you do need to know its practical worth.
That sounds like good advice, thank you.

I’m sure it’s being over cautious but I had a bad divorce years ago which as a young man I recovered from. That’s not the case now.

CArmo123

66 posts

73 months

Thursday 8th August
quotequote all
My Pre-nup cost £3500:

company specialising in this specific area. be aware of what people say - many get confused between UK and American laws.

Your pre-nup cant supersede British domicile laws (a judge will split things 50/50) so you need to be offering virtually 50% of assets for it to be worth the paper its written on. You need to think of this as an agreement of the division of assets. not how much someone gets but how it is divided up. In many cases length of marriage and children will add gravitas to what an ex-wife is due.

Mine was written with incrementing compensation (if you will) for 8/16/24+ years of marriage and whether we had kids or not.

Infidelity on either side stands for nothing, it does not affect the split of asset in anyway.

As it stands should me and the missus split now: I will keep my business (making child support payments as per the law), I will have the right to buy her out of her half of the familly home, provide her a lump sum in cash, and will have to provide her a suitable home to live in. All other assets will stay with me.

In short, all the revenue generating assets I have developed stay mine which was my ultimate goal, my wife gets a home and a new start.

A judge will throw a pre-nup out if they deem it unfair so there is no point trying to short change anyone.

My solid advice: Do not get married if you are concerned by any of this.

Pit Pony

9,235 posts

128 months

Thursday 8th August
quotequote all
Why? Why get married and why now, and why plan for divorce?

Asks the man who got married in 1990, to the woman he met at school, 10 years before (Aged 13). A woman who occassionaly threatens to divorce him, usually when she's angry with something outside his control.

Marriage. Its about the promises you make and try to keep.

Pre-nub, the meer suggestion, means one of the parties does not trust the other 100 % and without that trust there is no basis to marry in my humble opinion.

muscatdxb

136 posts

11 months

Thursday 8th August
quotequote all
I can’t imagine a situation where:

You have enough assets to attract a lot of inheritance tax.

You’ve been together for 30 years.

You would want to ringfence “your” assets in the case of divorce.

Do your assets not feel like both of yours after 30 years together?

Would you be happy taking most of the assets if you did split at such a late time in life? (60+?)

Sorry if I’m being nosey but it’s a strange setup to get married at a relatively late age and worried about a prenup for such an established relationship.

Edited by muscatdxb on Thursday 8th August 13:17


Edited by muscatdxb on Thursday 8th August 13:18

Bill

54,203 posts

262 months

Thursday 8th August
quotequote all
CArmo123 said:
...
Your pre-nup cant supersede British domicile laws (a judge will split things 50/50) so you need to be offering virtually 50% of assets for it to be worth the paper its written on. You need to think of this as an agreement of the division of assets. not how much someone gets but how it is divided up. In many cases length of marriage and children will add gravitas to what an ex-wife is due.

...

As it stands should me and the missus split now: I will keep my business (making child support payments as per the law), I will have the right to buy her out of her half of the familly home, provide her a lump sum in cash, and will have to provide her a suitable home to live in. All other assets will stay with me.

....

A judge will throw a pre-nup out if they deem it unfair so there is no point trying to short change anyone.
Not sure how you square the first two paragraphs away with the last.

TownIdiot

1,563 posts

6 months

Thursday 8th August
quotequote all
Pit Pony said:
Why? Why get married and why now, and why plan for divorce?

Asks the man who got married in 1990, to the woman he met at school, 10 years before (Aged 13). A woman who occassionaly threatens to divorce him, usually when she's angry with something outside his control.

Marriage. Its about the promises you make and try to keep.

Pre-nub, the meer suggestion, means one of the parties does not trust the other 100 % and without that trust there is no basis to marry in my humble opinion.
It looks like they are considering marriage as a tax planning tool.

I'd say that's what they do is up to them, but the post above from the person with experience sums up the situation pretty well.

Jeremy-75qq8

1,183 posts

99 months

Friday 9th August
quotequote all
Bill said:
Not sure how you square the first two paragraphs away with the last.
The agreement must be seen as fair or it is simply ignored.

The asset pot is £20m I give you £200k won't wash.

The pre nup is setting out who has what and where it came from and then a fair split if it ends in divorce.

The longer a marriage the closer the split is to 50/50 under established divorce law so the agreement has to take this into account also.

So back to our £20m asset pot. It's a lot of money. A £3/4m settlement would plausibly be fair if that spouse entered the marriage with little and they had been together for say 10 years. That would allow them to purchase a house and likely lead a similar lifestyle. So the quantum of money matters as much as the percent.

People who say why bother are nieve in my view. If you have real money you have worked to build then why risk divorce? Anything could happen. Either party could find someone else. Why not seek to protect your assets.

The main reason to bother with a second marriage after being together a long time without kids is iht. It is to be blunt a tax planning tool. I fit that category as likely does the op.

All of my assets were created before I met my current partner of 8 years. I would not risk marriage without a pre nup and many other would not also.