Court of protection help
Discussion
Evening all. Bit of a long story but I will try to condense it as best I can.
My aunt who lives in Oxford has been admitted to a care home in Witney with vascular dementia. It has all come on incredibly quickly (about 2 months or so) but with some levels of confusion and slightly erratic behaviour over the last 18 months. I am her next of kin and there are no kids or exes at all. Sadly she was in the process of getting me registered for power of attorney but she was admitted to hospital before she got a chance to do so.
As mentioned, she is now in a care home, having been admitted there from hospital on Wednesday this week. She owns her house outright and has a reasonable chunk of savings/investments and as such will have to pay for her own care. I saw my solicitor about 5 weeks ago to set up court of protection for her estate but this can take between 6&9 months to implement.
I am trying to work out how the care home will be funded in the interim. Will this be done by the local authority and then reimbursed from her estate? Can they take steps to access her funds or sell her house? It is all a right pickle, not helped by the fact that I am some 200 miles away in Anglesey. Any advice would be much appreciated.
My aunt who lives in Oxford has been admitted to a care home in Witney with vascular dementia. It has all come on incredibly quickly (about 2 months or so) but with some levels of confusion and slightly erratic behaviour over the last 18 months. I am her next of kin and there are no kids or exes at all. Sadly she was in the process of getting me registered for power of attorney but she was admitted to hospital before she got a chance to do so.
As mentioned, she is now in a care home, having been admitted there from hospital on Wednesday this week. She owns her house outright and has a reasonable chunk of savings/investments and as such will have to pay for her own care. I saw my solicitor about 5 weeks ago to set up court of protection for her estate but this can take between 6&9 months to implement.
I am trying to work out how the care home will be funded in the interim. Will this be done by the local authority and then reimbursed from her estate? Can they take steps to access her funds or sell her house? It is all a right pickle, not helped by the fact that I am some 200 miles away in Anglesey. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Hello there
This is based on experience of someone in a similar situation who lost capacity due to a traumatic brain injury.
Prior to injury, homeowner, good savings etc.
Extent of disability has resulted in care home and unlikely to ever leave.
Local authority has funded care home but have sent invoices to NOK on a monthly basis, but with the understanding that their family member lacks capacity and there was no access to their bank account etc.
No power of attorney in place pre injury.
NOK applied to become lay deputies, similar timeframe to what you have said. Local authority aware, and invoices kept coming but no demands to pay until deputyship in place.
Once the court of protection made the deputyship order, NOK were able to access finances and local authority were then paid. The local authority haven't been that pushy with it, but others may vary. Invoices now come monthly and are paid.
Hopefully your experience will be similar.
And these sort of events make it obvious to anyone close to such a situation of the benefits of getting a power of attorney in place, which your aunt was trying to do. For anyone reading, worth looking at this link if your setup is such that this sort of thing might occur (as in family members having to step in to try and sort out affairs etc):
https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney
Wishing you all the best, OP.
This is based on experience of someone in a similar situation who lost capacity due to a traumatic brain injury.
Prior to injury, homeowner, good savings etc.
Extent of disability has resulted in care home and unlikely to ever leave.
Local authority has funded care home but have sent invoices to NOK on a monthly basis, but with the understanding that their family member lacks capacity and there was no access to their bank account etc.
No power of attorney in place pre injury.
NOK applied to become lay deputies, similar timeframe to what you have said. Local authority aware, and invoices kept coming but no demands to pay until deputyship in place.
Once the court of protection made the deputyship order, NOK were able to access finances and local authority were then paid. The local authority haven't been that pushy with it, but others may vary. Invoices now come monthly and are paid.
Hopefully your experience will be similar.
And these sort of events make it obvious to anyone close to such a situation of the benefits of getting a power of attorney in place, which your aunt was trying to do. For anyone reading, worth looking at this link if your setup is such that this sort of thing might occur (as in family members having to step in to try and sort out affairs etc):
https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney
Wishing you all the best, OP.
Edited by Cudd Wudd on Friday 2nd August 23:27
Speak to Oxfordshire County Council (I think that's the LA your aunt comes under). Have a look at their deferred payment scheme.
https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/residents/social-an...
https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/residents/social-an...
Cudd Wudd said:
Hello there
And these sort of events make it obvious to anyone close to such a situation of the benefits of getting a power of attorney in place, which your aunt was trying to do. For anyone reading, worth looking at this link if your setup is such that this sort of thing might occur (as in family members having to step in to try and sort out affairs etc):
https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney
Wishing you all the best, OP.
It is so important to get a power of attorney for elderly people with funds, especially if they are the one half of a marriage or partnership that has funds or a decent income from a pension.And these sort of events make it obvious to anyone close to such a situation of the benefits of getting a power of attorney in place, which your aunt was trying to do. For anyone reading, worth looking at this link if your setup is such that this sort of thing might occur (as in family members having to step in to try and sort out affairs etc):
https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney
Wishing you all the best, OP.
So often relatives go through many difficulties because it hasn’t been set up on time.
Arguably we should all set one up now, because you never know when you are going to be incapacitated
Many thanks for the replies, I will get in touch with Oxford Council and see what is what with them.
It is all just so sad and so very sudden. As has been said, it is vital to get these things in place sooner rather than later. It sounds daft but she really is the last person I (and all who knows her) would have thought would suffer from this. You never can tell though. Thanks again, very much appreciated.
It is all just so sad and so very sudden. As has been said, it is vital to get these things in place sooner rather than later. It sounds daft but she really is the last person I (and all who knows her) would have thought would suffer from this. You never can tell though. Thanks again, very much appreciated.
To add to what has been said already.
Was she put into the care home at the request of herself, family, or a GP?
My father went into a care home at the request of his GP, and long story short, we didn't have to pay anything from his estate when he died, it was all covered by the local authority. He paid all of his pensions towards his keep while in the care home, minus an allowance for toiletries and clothing.
When he passed I thought we were going to owe the LA something like £30k, and when a few weeks went by with no request from them for the money, I contacted his last carer, and she gave me the 'good' news.
My application for Court of Protection deputyship was successful, but came through too late.
PS I was 130 miles away, so i understand a little of what you're going through, and I'm a carer too!
Was she put into the care home at the request of herself, family, or a GP?
My father went into a care home at the request of his GP, and long story short, we didn't have to pay anything from his estate when he died, it was all covered by the local authority. He paid all of his pensions towards his keep while in the care home, minus an allowance for toiletries and clothing.
When he passed I thought we were going to owe the LA something like £30k, and when a few weeks went by with no request from them for the money, I contacted his last carer, and she gave me the 'good' news.
My application for Court of Protection deputyship was successful, but came through too late.
PS I was 130 miles away, so i understand a little of what you're going through, and I'm a carer too!
Edited by Tony1963 on Saturday 3rd August 09:15
Edited by Tony1963 on Saturday 3rd August 09:16
We recently went through this with my wife's mum. The LA just kept a running tally in the background and were ever so good about it (Bridgend) with no chasing and no rush to settle.
She died in March and we are just sorting out the bill now. It's taken this long due to the DWP and errors in Pension Credit over the last 33 years or so.
She died in March and we are just sorting out the bill now. It's taken this long due to the DWP and errors in Pension Credit over the last 33 years or so.
Planet Claire said:
Speak to Oxfordshire County Council (I think that's the LA your aunt comes under). Have a look at their deferred payment scheme.
https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/residents/social-an...
But note: 'There is an administration charge of £650 to cover the cost of setting up and maintaining the agreement. Other charges, such as legal costs and land registry fees, may also apply. You will be charged interest on the loan the same way as if you borrowed from a bank.'https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/residents/social-an...
When I was managing my mother's affairs, I had POA but there was a running dispute over the bills which meant I didn't pay some of them. As a result the council (Essex) took a charge on her property. That annoyed me at the time but the dispute was resolved eventually, a fair figure was reached which I paid and they removed the charge. Point is, there was no admin fee and no interest - so perhaps saying 'You can take a charge on the house if you like' might be an alternative.
Sorry to hear about your Aunt.
Your story isn’t a million miles away from mine.
Firstly I would say it may not be impossible to gain LPA depending on her condition.
My aunt had been taken into a care home as found wandering the streets and I managed to get a solicitor to “ interview “ her and he was able to be persuaded that she was able to sign LPA authority.
I was warned that having to go CoP would be both painful and not quick.
As far as her local council were concerned social services were awful and I ended up dealing with their Head of Finance who made the whole process far easier.
The care home she found herself in had been organised by her GP and happened to be fantastic so we got lucky.
Mind you it was £60k per year although that is better than some stories.
The care home wanted their money obviously but didn’t care who it came from.
The council ended up funding it for 12 weeks and then due to my complaints etc agreed a further period of free funding and in the end I think I ended up with around 24 weeks paid for.
I had to sell her house to fund the care and it was this that helped persuade the council.
I also managed to purchase an immediate needs annuity on her behalf which in effect would fund 80% of any care home fees ( up to a given limit obviously ) for the rest of her life - expensive though.
Sadly this turned out to be less time than we thought ( she developed cancer ) although the finances just about balanced.
Sorry I’ve banged on a bit and would just reiterate that trying to get LPA if at all possible will make your life so much easier.
If you can’t then the very best of luck to yourself and your aunt.
Your story isn’t a million miles away from mine.
Firstly I would say it may not be impossible to gain LPA depending on her condition.
My aunt had been taken into a care home as found wandering the streets and I managed to get a solicitor to “ interview “ her and he was able to be persuaded that she was able to sign LPA authority.
I was warned that having to go CoP would be both painful and not quick.
As far as her local council were concerned social services were awful and I ended up dealing with their Head of Finance who made the whole process far easier.
The care home she found herself in had been organised by her GP and happened to be fantastic so we got lucky.
Mind you it was £60k per year although that is better than some stories.
The care home wanted their money obviously but didn’t care who it came from.
The council ended up funding it for 12 weeks and then due to my complaints etc agreed a further period of free funding and in the end I think I ended up with around 24 weeks paid for.
I had to sell her house to fund the care and it was this that helped persuade the council.
I also managed to purchase an immediate needs annuity on her behalf which in effect would fund 80% of any care home fees ( up to a given limit obviously ) for the rest of her life - expensive though.
Sadly this turned out to be less time than we thought ( she developed cancer ) although the finances just about balanced.
Sorry I’ve banged on a bit and would just reiterate that trying to get LPA if at all possible will make your life so much easier.
If you can’t then the very best of luck to yourself and your aunt.
My late father refused to grant me a LPA whilst he was fit to do so, when he was diagnosed with vascular dementia it was too late!
I had to go to the Court of Protection to be appointed as his Deputy, until this was in place I could not access his bank accounts, the Treasurer's Dept at the LA were very understanding and defered payment whilst the court proccess went through.
Dementia, in any of it's various forms is a horrible thing to witness, I had to watch, helpless, as the man I loved and respected became a shambling ruin.
I had to go to the Court of Protection to be appointed as his Deputy, until this was in place I could not access his bank accounts, the Treasurer's Dept at the LA were very understanding and defered payment whilst the court proccess went through.
Dementia, in any of it's various forms is a horrible thing to witness, I had to watch, helpless, as the man I loved and respected became a shambling ruin.
Huge thanks for all the input and insight chaps. It is good to know that I am not the only one who is/has been in this situation sadly.
As time goes on, my aunt seems to be settling into the home and actually becoming more "with it" so to speak and the thought of appointing a solicitor down there to see if LPA is feasible is a good idea. Fingers crossed.
As time goes on, my aunt seems to be settling into the home and actually becoming more "with it" so to speak and the thought of appointing a solicitor down there to see if LPA is feasible is a good idea. Fingers crossed.
ferret50 said:
My late father refused to grant me a LPA whilst he was fit to do so, when he was diagnosed with vascular dementia it was too late!
I had to go to the Court of Protection to be appointed as his Deputy, until this was in place I could not access his bank accounts, the Treasurer's Dept at the LA were very understanding and defered payment whilst the court proccess went through.
Dementia, in any of it's various forms is a horrible thing to witness, I had to watch, helpless, as the man I loved and respected became a shambling ruin.
Sorry to read that. I had to go to the Court of Protection to be appointed as his Deputy, until this was in place I could not access his bank accounts, the Treasurer's Dept at the LA were very understanding and defered payment whilst the court proccess went through.
Dementia, in any of it's various forms is a horrible thing to witness, I had to watch, helpless, as the man I loved and respected became a shambling ruin.
Your last sentence is sadly so true.
For various posts on here advice has always been to try and get LPA’s set up for your loved ones even if the LPA only sits there and is never needed to be actually used.
Obviously if the individual refuses to do this then not much you can do about it.
We applied for LPA's for my FiL a few weeks ago now. He's 86 and in good mental health but physically he's been a bit dodgy for a few years now.
Next we need to speak to his brother (84) about doing the same.
We set our own up a few years ago now with our son as our attorney.
Next we need to speak to his brother (84) about doing the same.
We set our own up a few years ago now with our son as our attorney.
Edited by oblio on Tuesday 6th August 07:51
Going through all this with my dad currently, by the time I realised he was covering up some serious issues it was too late to get an LPA in place, CoP is expensive, as already pointed out and as already pointed out takes a long time to organise.
I was fortunate enough to get DWP on board and was granted power of his pensions due to them, the well known bank beginning with B have been incredibly unhelpful unfortunately.
Very best of luck OP and anyone else going through this.
I was fortunate enough to get DWP on board and was granted power of his pensions due to them, the well known bank beginning with B have been incredibly unhelpful unfortunately.
Very best of luck OP and anyone else going through this.
Bobberoo said:
Going through all this with my dad currently, by the time I realised he was covering up some serious issues it was too late to get an LPA in place, CoP is expensive, as already pointed out and as already pointed out takes a long time to organise.
I was fortunate enough to get DWP on board and was granted power of his pensions due to them, the well known bank beginning with B have been incredibly unhelpful unfortunately.
Very best of luck OP and anyone else going through this.
When I had to trace a relatives finances ( and deal with debt collectors simultaneously ) that well known bank was just horrendous.I was fortunate enough to get DWP on board and was granted power of his pensions due to them, the well known bank beginning with B have been incredibly unhelpful unfortunately.
Very best of luck OP and anyone else going through this.
In the end I had to get their CEO executive team involved who had one of their Lawyers deal with the situation -now she was great.
NS&I also a complete pain to have to deal with whereas that very large BS that starts with a N was also great.
A painful reminder of the situation with my late father.He also refused an LPA as he didn’t need it….and he was a solicitor!, )
Developed vascular dementia and ended up in a home .
However my point is have you looked at CHC funding? this may pay for all the care home fees ( as it did with my father ) as the NHS will pay in certain circumstances .
It’s a bit of a faff and a few hoops to jump through but when you are then not paying £1500 a week it’s worth it.
There are lots of firms who will guide you through it or the care home themselves may help as it’s guaranteed income !.,
COP were useless it came through for us one year after applying and 6 months after he had died.
Developed vascular dementia and ended up in a home .
However my point is have you looked at CHC funding? this may pay for all the care home fees ( as it did with my father ) as the NHS will pay in certain circumstances .
It’s a bit of a faff and a few hoops to jump through but when you are then not paying £1500 a week it’s worth it.
There are lots of firms who will guide you through it or the care home themselves may help as it’s guaranteed income !.,
COP were useless it came through for us one year after applying and 6 months after he had died.
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