dying intestate

[Purosangue]

Wifes best friend is in an unfortunate situation , Her husband 56 died a few weeks ago , been trying to help her with probate now death certificate has been released ( natural causes) .

Unfortunately , he left no will , they were married for 10 years , he did all the finance , it transpires , the house is in his name only . They had separate bank accounts , she does not know any of his passwords ( email / phone etc) so contacting his personal friends has proved difficult.

She is 39 they have a 7 year old daughter

He has a daughter from a previous marriage (33) .

Am I correct , that the house has to be sold and the first £322,000 will go to the wife , with the excess being divided between the wife and daughters ? with wife receiving half of whats left , the other half divided between the two daughters with her daughter ( 7 years old ) having her share held in trust.

what happens to his bank account with no will ? is this also divided equally during probate as an asset ?

A stress full situation , and a stark reminder to get your Will and funeral arrangements in order if you havent already done so 56 is no age and guessing he did not expect to die so young.

[hidetheelephants]

The house doesn't have to be sold, although the split may mean practically it needs to be. Any idea what the size of the estate is? England, Wales, Scotland, Ulster, or somewhere else?

[Purosangue]

I think the house would be worth around £450 -£ 500 k ?

of all places No 2 stterton ............I kid you not

[bompey]

It would be worth posting this on the MSE (Martin Lewis) forum as some very knowledgeable posters there.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/de...

[megaphone]

The government websites are very good https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-w...

Remember the value of the 'estate' is everything, the house, savings , investments, other property etc. Does she know the total value?

Did he have life insurance?

Is the house mortgage free?

Any pensions?

[Purosangue]

megaphone said:

The government websites are very good https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-w...

Remember the value of the 'estate' is everything, the house, savings , investments, other property etc. Does she know the total value?

Did he have life insurance?

Is the house mortgage free?

Any pensions?

mortgage free , no life insurance , no pension , no idea how much savings he had

[megaphone]

She'll need to get in touch with the bank(s) and show them the death certificate, they may want a copy so it is good to get (pay for) multiple copies. They may also want to see ID, a marriage certificate etc. They have bereavement departments that do this all the time.

Hopefully the bank will at least release the details of the accounts and some statements. They can be difficult until probate is granted.


What's your friend's relationship like with the 33 year old daughter? Is it likely she will make things difficult? Obviously the daughter is entitled to her share of the estate, hopefully there may be enough residual cash about to give her, or some other arrangement that means the house does not need to be sold.

Unfortunately this may need some legal advice, which can cost £k's.

Edited by megaphone on Wednesday 24th July 10:42

Edited by megaphone on Wednesday 24th July 10:43

[ianrb]

From the Citizen Advice Website:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and...

If there are surviving children, grandchildren or great grandchildren of the person who died and the estate is valued at more than £322,000, the partner will inherit:

• all the personal property and belongings of the person who has died, and

• the first £322,000 of the estate, and

• half of the remaining estate.

[silentbrown]

IANAL but because the estate isn't going entirely to the partner - and because it's likely over the IHT threshold - there's probably a chunk of inheritance tax that needs paying too.

Time to get some professional advice and help, I'd suggest.

[supersport]

It's worth noting that once you tell the banks, the accounts get frozen.

This can mean some significant outcomes, like bills not being paid.

If they were working, it's worth finding out if they had in service death benefits.

Not having a will is a real bd thing to do. I know we don't talk about death properly in this country, but we really ought even if it's to make sure that things are dealt with properly afterward.

[silentbrown]

megaphone said:

Hopefully the bank will at least release the details of the accounts and some statements. They can be difficult until probate is granted.

In this case, it's a grant of letters of administration, not probate. That allows you to actually access the account.

But you can't get that until you know the account balances, etc.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

supersport said:

Not having a will is a real bd thing to do.

Exactly. Unless you hate your family, and actively want to cause them a whole load of unnecessary grief and stress, just why?

[alscar]

My aunt’s husband died without leaving a will and his parents claimed against the estate.
There is a pyramid of inheritance rules but probate etc even with a will can be complicated and painful especially if all the financial details are unknown.
To be honest I think your wife’s friend should contact a solicitor locally to assist her.

[Purosangue]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

supersport said:

Not having a will is a real bd thing to do.

Exactly. Unless you hate your family, and actively want to cause them a whole load of unnecessary grief and stress, just why?

tbh

I was shocked to discover how secretive he was , for the last three years they virtually lived separate lives in the same house .

We knew things were bad , i think it highly likely they would have got divorced , we would have BBQs / roast dinners at our place and invite them over or go to the beach . Their daughter Is practically like a younger sister to our kids , he would never leave his house , then I would receive WhatsApp messages , that they had rowed and he didn't want to spoil the fun.

He had a good business cleaning gutters , had 500 clients locally , then he hit the bottle , it was like watching someone press the self destruct button , got caught DD , so couldn't drive , I found him a driver , and out of the blue he sold the van and the business !!

His wife whose Latvian took the daughter to visit their mother for 2 months and he got caught sat in her car outside their house with a bottle of wine , second DD offence I took him to court and got him on an AA course , it was extremely difficult we live 30 miles away , He was a big chap 130kg , he never let on about money I assumed he had a joint account .

, when his wife returned she brought the MIL back so i guess the situation was worse at home He also developed a heart condition , and last year had a triple bypass .

A few months ago I set up a business with an ex colleague I was determined to get him involved , the plan was for him to work from home get him involved then start re training him , he seemed genuinely enthusiastic ,

. They had very strange sleeping arrangement he would go to bed at 7pm , sleeping in a box room on his own and get up at 5am make his daughter breakfast . and potter around the house , His wife is a teacher so she was out at 7 and back at 5 pm , I dont think they saw much of each other

On the night he passed a few weeks ago , the wife and the daughter had gone to a friends party around 6pm , returning around 10pm , he was in his room so they did not disturb him assuming he was asleep , as it turned out he must have had a heart attack , and had burst stomach ulcer , it was a pretty awful sight .
we got the call from his wife he had died in his sleep at 56 it was a shock , It was tragic all round My Wife and I raced over and met the paramedics , we waited for the police , who confirmed it wasn't suspicious , they called the undertakers and I told the wife to take his wife and daughter to stay at our place.

One bit of a logistical nightmare was he passed away upstairs and they had a small iron spiral staircase , the two undertakers arrived and were tiny , I helped them get him down the stairs then cleaned the room , I had bag up all the items and throw away mattress / carpet under the bed were two empty wine bottles I remember looking at that depressing box room and thinking what a sad place to spend your last night , dying alone .

I don't think there was any malice , I genuinely think he thought there would be plenty of time to sort out a will in the future , he probably thought they would divorce and the house would be sold , so things would be sorted then.

What really hit me hard was the next morning at our house his 7 year old daughter came down the stairs at 5 o clock for breakfast , I realised it was a routine she had with her dad , I gave her a big hug , made her breakfast and putt cartoons on the tv , then went outside and broke down

he was cremated today

RIP John

Edited by Purosangue on Wednesday 24th July 17:23

[Mrr T]

silentbrown said:

IANAL but because the estate isn't going entirely to the partner - and because it's likely over the IHT threshold - there's probably a chunk of inheritance tax that needs paying too.

Time to get some professional advice and help, I'd suggest.

Really? A quick calculation using the upper house value suggests he would have needed over £470k of saving for IHT to be payable.

[silentbrown]

Mrr T said:

Really? A quick calculation using the upper house value suggests he would have needed over £470k of saving for IHT to be payable.

You're probably right. I've no idea how the spouse exemption and higher threshold for passing on house would work in this scenario due to the lack of a will and the need to divide the estate (hence suggesting proper advice!)

[Mrr T]

silentbrown said:

Mrr T said:

Really? A quick calculation using the upper house value suggests he would have needed over £470k of saving for IHT to be payable.

You're probably right. I've no idea how the spouse exemption and higher threshold for passing on house would work in this scenario due to the lack of a will and the need to divide the estate (hence suggesting proper advice!)

The IHT rules are the same if there is a will or an intestacy.

[Sheepshanks]

Mrr T said:

silentbrown said:

Mrr T said:

Really? A quick calculation using the upper house value suggests he would have needed over £470k of saving for IHT to be payable.

You're probably right. I've no idea how the spouse exemption and higher threshold for passing on house would work in this scenario due to the lack of a will and the need to divide the estate (hence suggesting proper advice!)

The IHT rules are the same if there is a will or an intestacy.

I wondered about that - it seems that while the rules are the same, the way the estate is spit under intestacy rules produces a different IHT outcome. Maybe that's only an issue for higher value estates.

[silentbrown]

Mrr T said:

The IHT rules are the same if there is a will or an intestacy.

Is there a risk that the intestacy requirements for split mean the house must be sold, so higher iht threshold can't be used?

[Vizsla]

Purosangue said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

supersport said:

Not having a will is a real bd thing to do.

Exactly. Unless you hate your family, and actively want to cause them a whole load of unnecessary grief and stress, just why?

tbh

I was shocked to discover how secretive he was , for the last three years they virtually lived separate lives in the same house .

We knew things were bad , i think it highly likely they would have got divorced , we would have BBQs / roast dinners at our place and invite them over or go to the beach . Their daughter Is practically like a younger sister to our kids , he would never leave his house , then I would receive WhatsApp messages , that they had rowed and he didn't want to spoil the fun.

He had a good business cleaning gutters , had 500 clients locally , then he hit the bottle , it was like watching someone press the self destruct button , got caught DD , so couldn't drive , I found him a driver , and out of the blue he sold the van and the business !!

His wife whose Latvian took the daughter to visit their mother for 2 months and he got caught sat in her car outside their house with a bottle of wine , second DD offence I took him to court and got him on an AA course , it was extremely difficult we live 30 miles away , He was a big chap 130kg , he never let on about money I assumed he had a joint account .

, when his wife returned she brought the MIL back so i guess the situation was worse at home He also developed a heart condition , and last year had a triple bypass .

A few months ago I set up a business with an ex colleague I was determined to get him involved , the plan was for him to work from home get him involved then start re training him , he seemed genuinely enthusiastic ,

. They had very strange sleeping arrangement he would go to bed at 7pm , sleeping in a box room on his own and get up at 5am make his daughter breakfast . and potter around the house , His wife is a teacher so she was out at 7 and back at 5 pm , I dont think they saw much of each other

On the night he passed a few weeks ago , the wife and the daughter had gone to a friends party around 6pm , returning around 10pm , he was in his room so they did not disturb him assuming he was asleep , as it turned out he must have had a heart attack , and had burst stomach ulcer , it was a pretty awful sight .
we got the call from his wife he had died in his sleep at 56 it was a shock , It was tragic all round My Wife and I raced over and met the paramedics , we waited for the police , who confirmed it wasn't suspicious , they called the undertakers and I told the wife to take his wife and daughter to stay at our place.

One bit of a logistical nightmare was he passed away upstairs and they had a small iron spiral staircase , the two undertakers arrived and were tiny , I helped them get him down the stairs then cleaned the room , I had bag up all the items and throw away mattress / carpet under the bed were two empty wine bottles I remember looking at that depressing box room and thinking what a sad place to spend your last night , dying alone .

I don't think there was any malice , I genuinely think he thought there would be plenty of time to sort out a will in the future , he probably thought they would divorce and the house would be sold , so things would be sorted then.

What really hit me hard was the next morning at our house his 7 year old daughter came down the stairs at 5 o clock for breakfast , I realised it was a routine she had with her dad , I gave her a big hug , made her breakfast and putt cartoons on the tv , then went outside and broke down

he was cremated today

RIP John

Edited by Purosangue on Wednesday 24th July 17:23

Bloody hell! I've obviously lived a very sheltered life. Sad beyond words, awful.