Planning permission - can you add retrospective permission?
Discussion
is anyone up to speed on planning law and applications for planning permission?
I have a situation close to me where an application has been submitted for conversion of a rural building to a dwelling. The applicant is attempting to add to this application retrospective planning permission for elements they have already been naughty with....
Is that allowed?
Do you not have to seek retrospective planning for the naughty bits separately? and then a new planning application for the bits you would like to do?
Surely you can't combine them into a part new / part retrospective planning application?
Anyone know the actual law on this?
I have a situation close to me where an application has been submitted for conversion of a rural building to a dwelling. The applicant is attempting to add to this application retrospective planning permission for elements they have already been naughty with....
Is that allowed?
Do you not have to seek retrospective planning for the naughty bits separately? and then a new planning application for the bits you would like to do?
Surely you can't combine them into a part new / part retrospective planning application?
Anyone know the actual law on this?
Not sure if this is relevant in your case.
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https://www.localgov.co.uk/Clarksons-clause-introd...
You’ll have to click off the pop ups.
https://www.localgov.co.uk/Clarksons-clause-introd...
BrettMRC said:
Retrospective planning permission is allowed.
It's a nice way for the councils planning to team to get around all the headaches and difficulties that might come from doing actual planning enforcement...
You're coming at that from the wrong angle, a retrospective planning application is generally the first major step in enforcement. Like it or not, undertaking development without planning permission does not automatically mean that the development is unacceptable. Well established case law dictates that a person should normally be afforded the opportunity to test whether their development is acceptable, this is done through the submission and assessment of a planning application. Case law has also established the principle that basis that a planning application being retrospective should neither advantage nor disadvantage the assessment of the proposed development. Whether planning authorities are more lenient on the assessment of retrospective planning applications is a different matter, no doubt some are. However, a planning authority that did not allow a retrospective planning application to be submitted and assessed would normally get little sympathy from a court of law. Failure to allow the submission of one is probably counter to an effective enforcement procedure.It's a nice way for the councils planning to team to get around all the headaches and difficulties that might come from doing actual planning enforcement...
In terms of the OP original question, I don't think there is any legal reason why a planning application cannot be partially retrospective. Having said that, it is certainly not recommendable as the chances of refusal are probably increased. If they are getting decent advice they should make two planning applications, with one covering just the retrospective elements.
RedWhiteMonkey said:
BrettMRC said:
Retrospective planning permission is allowed.
It's a nice way for the councils planning to team to get around all the headaches and difficulties that might come from doing actual planning enforcement...
You're coming at that from the wrong angle, a retrospective planning application is generally the first major step in enforcement. Like it or not, undertaking development without planning permission does not automatically mean that the development is unacceptable. Well established case law dictates that a person should normally be afforded the opportunity to test whether their development is acceptable, this is done through the submission and assessment of a planning application. Case law has also established the principle that basis that a planning application being retrospective should neither advantage nor disadvantage the assessment of the proposed development. Whether planning authorities are more lenient on the assessment of retrospective planning applications is a different matter, no doubt some are. However, a planning authority that did not allow a retrospective planning application to be submitted and assessed would normally get little sympathy from a court of law. Failure to allow the submission of one is probably counter to an effective enforcement procedure.It's a nice way for the councils planning to team to get around all the headaches and difficulties that might come from doing actual planning enforcement...
In terms of the OP original question, I don't think there is any legal reason why a planning application cannot be partially retrospective. Having said that, it is certainly not recommendable as the chances of refusal are probably increased. If they are getting decent advice they should make two planning applications, with one covering just the retrospective elements.
I suspect experiences vary by location.
BrettMRC said:
Retrospective planning permission is allowed.
It's a nice way for the councils planning to team to get around all the headaches and difficulties that might come from doing actual planning enforcement...
Never a truer word spoken, especially with pet architects and builders. As I said to a planner recently, no doubt you you cock up you’ve got a bit of goodwill from the other side. It's a nice way for the councils planning to team to get around all the headaches and difficulties that might come from doing actual planning enforcement...
There is no specific application type for a retrospective planning application, so no reason you can’t combine retrospective elements with proposed development.
There may be scenarios where proposed development makes the retention of retrospective elements more acceptable.
A retrospective application should not be treated punitively and determination should be based on exactly the same factors as an application for proposed development. If anything they are more cautiously refused because of a far higher chance of appeal if the alternative it knocking something down.
The LPA can (and should, but usually don’t) issue a split decision where some elements are acceptable and others are not.
There may be scenarios where proposed development makes the retention of retrospective elements more acceptable.
A retrospective application should not be treated punitively and determination should be based on exactly the same factors as an application for proposed development. If anything they are more cautiously refused because of a far higher chance of appeal if the alternative it knocking something down.
The LPA can (and should, but usually don’t) issue a split decision where some elements are acceptable and others are not.
Edited by quinny100 on Tuesday 23 July 22:33
Excellent information MOST interesting and useful, many thanks!
I also managed to speak to the duty planning officer today who confirmed that it was ok to combine retrospective elements with a new application.
As it happens, I've had a chance to look at the planning enforcement guidance and with your excellent information above, suspect this part-retrospective application may potentially have been triggered by an enforcement notice caused by Mr Naughty doing building work that formed part of a previously refused planning application (i.e. just going ahead anyway).
If I have understood it right, that's a big error and since April this year they cannot appeal if this retrospective application is refused (because an application to regularise the breach has already been made, assessed and declined). That seems to be a massive and unfavourably weighted gamble! Still, if Mr Naughty wants to play stupid games with the Planning Authority, I guess he has the potential to win stupid prizes....
Interesting to hear some Planning Authorities can treat retrospective applications less punitively. I sincerely hope they don't in this case as Mr Naughty has been a proper rogue....
MOST interesting and useful, many thanks!I also managed to speak to the duty planning officer today who confirmed that it was ok to combine retrospective elements with a new application.
As it happens, I've had a chance to look at the planning enforcement guidance and with your excellent information above, suspect this part-retrospective application may potentially have been triggered by an enforcement notice caused by Mr Naughty doing building work that formed part of a previously refused planning application (i.e. just going ahead anyway).
If I have understood it right, that's a big error and since April this year they cannot appeal if this retrospective application is refused (because an application to regularise the breach has already been made, assessed and declined). That seems to be a massive and unfavourably weighted gamble! Still, if Mr Naughty wants to play stupid games with the Planning Authority, I guess he has the potential to win stupid prizes....
Interesting to hear some Planning Authorities can treat retrospective applications less punitively. I sincerely hope they don't in this case as Mr Naughty has been a proper rogue....
Edited by larrylamb11 on Tuesday 23 July 23:38
Worth noting that in some cases enforcement action is nullified once a new application is made on the same property.
Canny people have been know to do this to stymie enforcement action, especially in jurisdictions where the local authority may lack the funding to continually challenge applicants in court.
Canny people have been know to do this to stymie enforcement action, especially in jurisdictions where the local authority may lack the funding to continually challenge applicants in court.
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