Flat leasehold question
Discussion
I own a flat and it has a lease on it. I want to remove a stud wall which separates living room from a galley kitchen. My lease states the follow:
4.28 Not to make any structural alterations or additions to the Demised Premises or any part thereof nor to alter the external appearance thereof
Does that I mean I can’t remove the stud wall? Hard to interpret but do we consider a stud wall part of the structure since it’s non supporting.
Thanks
4.28 Not to make any structural alterations or additions to the Demised Premises or any part thereof nor to alter the external appearance thereof
Does that I mean I can’t remove the stud wall? Hard to interpret but do we consider a stud wall part of the structure since it’s non supporting.
Thanks
DaGuv said:
I own a flat and it has a lease on it. I want to remove a stud wall which separates living room from a galley kitchen. My lease states the follow:
4.28 Not to make any structural alterations or additions to the Demised Premises or any part thereof nor to alter the external appearance thereof
Does that I mean I can’t remove the stud wall? Hard to interpret but do we consider a stud wall part of the structure since it’s non supporting.
Thanks
Is a stud wall a structure?.......you don't "own" the flat because you lease it and the Freeholder owns it.4.28 Not to make any structural alterations or additions to the Demised Premises or any part thereof nor to alter the external appearance thereof
Does that I mean I can’t remove the stud wall? Hard to interpret but do we consider a stud wall part of the structure since it’s non supporting.
Thanks
I see some splitting of hairs is taking place about owning the flat.
I think the OP understands clearly the difference between owning the leasehold and owning the freehold, and there's nothing to be gained by quibbling the semantics at this point - the question is clear.
Regarding whether a stud wall constitutes a structural alteration: again it seems hair splitting, though a more important one.
No one in construction world would consider a stud wall to be a load bearing part of the structure.
However, it is still "part" of the structure (despite not being load bearing). Would any landlords on here be ok with tenants shifting walls around as they please?
From a quick Google, more replies seem to say altering a stud wall is a change to the "structure", and therefore structural in a wider sense of not engineering sense.
Some leases seem to prohibit any alterations altogether, but ultimately the op needs to ask either the landlord (or agent) or get a legal opinion to back them up.
I think the OP understands clearly the difference between owning the leasehold and owning the freehold, and there's nothing to be gained by quibbling the semantics at this point - the question is clear.
Regarding whether a stud wall constitutes a structural alteration: again it seems hair splitting, though a more important one.
No one in construction world would consider a stud wall to be a load bearing part of the structure.
However, it is still "part" of the structure (despite not being load bearing). Would any landlords on here be ok with tenants shifting walls around as they please?
From a quick Google, more replies seem to say altering a stud wall is a change to the "structure", and therefore structural in a wider sense of not engineering sense.
Some leases seem to prohibit any alterations altogether, but ultimately the op needs to ask either the landlord (or agent) or get a legal opinion to back them up.
As a freeholder of a building converted into 6 flats ..............knock it down without my permission and I'm not happy. Obtain my permission 1st and indemnify me for all my costs, solicitors, surveyors, land reg etc etc then I'd agree.....otherwise it sets a precedent for otherleaseholders.
Do it without my permission and try to sell could present the leaseholder with a problem.
Do it without my permission and try to sell could present the leaseholder with a problem.
I remember once seeing a nice flat for sale but the way the rooms had been created made very poor use of the available space. I did think at the time that if I'd bought it I'd have wanted to remove the internal walls and start again with my own layout and assumed this would involve getting consent from the freeholder. It should, due to the improved use of space, have added value, so I can't see that it would have been an issue but, as I never bought it in the end, I've no idea how it might have panned out. I'll watch the thread with interest!
I imagine deleting an entire wall is making a big change to the flat. Something the Landlord would notice and object to.
It’s not as subtle as changing the curtains.
I’ve been a tenant in an apartment where the agreement was “yeah you can make changes, like paint the walls if you want, but you need to put it back to how it was when you leave. Future tenants might not want walls painted like an Ozzy Osbourne gothic dungeon”.
It’s not as subtle as changing the curtains.
I’ve been a tenant in an apartment where the agreement was “yeah you can make changes, like paint the walls if you want, but you need to put it back to how it was when you leave. Future tenants might not want walls painted like an Ozzy Osbourne gothic dungeon”.
Edited by Mr Miata on Tuesday 23 July 20:08
I'm not an expert so I don't know whether in this case "structural" means techincally load bearing or just simply a major alteration - it's not a timber framed dwelling is it?
Two problems arise if removal of your internal wall is considered structural:
(i) You don't have permission from the freeholder with all the problems that entails .
(ii) When you want to sell the flat you are likely to have to declare if there have been any structural alterations and not declaring has the potential to bring
on a world of pain.
I would ask the freeholder or at the very least the Management company (who would probably refer the question to the freeholder) ...... my son did this when he wanted to change the front door of his flat.
Two problems arise if removal of your internal wall is considered structural:
(i) You don't have permission from the freeholder with all the problems that entails .
(ii) When you want to sell the flat you are likely to have to declare if there have been any structural alterations and not declaring has the potential to bring
on a world of pain.
I would ask the freeholder or at the very least the Management company (who would probably refer the question to the freeholder) ...... my son did this when he wanted to change the front door of his flat.
Was watching Kirstie and Phil 'Love it or List it' last night and it reminded me of this thread. Family had a flat and Kirstie narrates something like ' The flat is leasehold which means no alterations to the outside of the building or any extensions'.
I didn't hear any mention that they should get or got approval from the freeholder before they took down lots of the internal walls. They also chopped up the garage to convert half of it in to a habitable room.
I didn't hear any mention that they should get or got approval from the freeholder before they took down lots of the internal walls. They also chopped up the garage to convert half of it in to a habitable room.
mgtony said:
Was watching Kirstie and Phil 'Love it or List it' last night and it reminded me of this thread. Family had a flat and Kirstie narrates something like ' The flat is leasehold which means no alterations to the outside of the building or any extensions'.
I didn't hear any mention that they should get or got approval from the freeholder before they took down lots of the internal walls. They also chopped up the garage to convert half of it in to a habitable room.
Well I suppose they are the experts so would have said something if was not ok to do it without approval from the freeholder or his agent..I didn't hear any mention that they should get or got approval from the freeholder before they took down lots of the internal walls. They also chopped up the garage to convert half of it in to a habitable room.
Different angle from other posters- have you considered that you might need a buildings regulation inspection prior to taking the wall down? It has fire safety implications, I imagine especially so since it separates the kitchen from the rest of the flat(?).
https://www.labc.co.uk/news/can-internal-non-loadb...
https://www.labc.co.uk/news/can-internal-non-loadb...
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